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Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Can someone tell me, aside from the Carl Corazzini cup of tea with Boston, the next BU forward after Drury to make the NHL and play regularly?
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

limey said:
This is an absurd argument. Because they have one FF, Parker doesn't develop talent? Aside from the bust class of '03 and some of the untalented class in '04, go through and list all these high-flying recruits who never developed under Parker. The fact that you can only list players from the '03 class suggests to me that you haven't even been paying much attention since then, which explains your utterly unsupportable argument.

The stupidity of your argument is highlighted by the fact that you felt the need to get "UNH, RIT and Vermont" jabs into the statement, which has nothing to do with anything.
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Please roll out a list of current NHL forwards that came out of BU within the, say, last 7 years. Leave out Wilson because a monkey could have developed him. He brings in 5-star recruits, and they leave and if they are lucky go to the AHL or ECHL after graduating. Either BU isn't getting the talent anymore or the talent they are getting is stagnating.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
He takes middle of the road recruits and turns them into professional players. This current group (the young kids) have grown tremendously.
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I can't believe anyone is this thick without being intentional. Your argument is that Cronin is a better developer of talent since he joined NU in because the current group of young kids (1 or at most 2 classes) have grown over the past few months? This sample size is far too small and the results are incomplete and cannot be even deemed conclusive. You can't possibly be serious.

Slasher7 said:
Please roll out a list of current NHL forwards that came out of BU within the, say, last 7 years. Leave out Wilson because a monkey could have developed him. He brings in 5-star recruits, and they leave and if they are lucky go to the AHL or ECHL after graduating. Either BU isn't getting the talent anymore or the talent they are getting is stagnating.
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First, why are we limiting this to forwards? Do defensemen and goalies not develop?

Second, I'm not the person making the assertion. If you have not already done your research on this issue (which it appears you clearly have not), then how can you take any position other than offering rank speculation? Don't make an unsupported claim and then, when someone calls you on it, tell them to do your reasarch for you. Either put up or shut up.

Third, why are we looking at players in the NHL exclusively? I thought the argument was regarding how players develop under Parker, not whether Parker can turn every recruit into an NHLer. After all, how many rookies play in the NHL each season? 40? 50? Taking into account the number of kids that come from other leagues and countries, it seems foolish to base limit your sample to "NHL forwards who had more than a cup of coffee." Then again, this is coming from a guy who determines talent development on arbitrary statistics like "Frozen Fours in a ten year span".
 
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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

limey said:
First, why are we limiting this to forwards? Do defensemen and goalies not develop?

Second, I'm not the person making the assertion. If you have not already done your research on this issue (which it appears you clearly have not), then how can you take any position other than offering rank speculation? Don't make an unsupported claim and then, when someone calls you on it, tell them to do your reasarch for you. Either put up or shut up.

Third, why are we looking at players in the NHL exclusively? I thought the argument was regarding how players develop under Parker, not whether Parker can turn every recruit into an NHLer.
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I mention forwards because back in the day, BU sent quite a bit of forwards to the NHL (Drury, Amonte, Tkachuk, etc). I guess do you feel, then, that since several schools who are winning titles are sending forwards to the NHL (BC, Michigan, Minnesota, UND, etc) then a.) BU isn't attracting NHL-quality talent up front or b.) He is still getting the talent and for whatever reason they aren't making the NHL anymore? Just curious from a BU perspective which one you think it is.

You mention unsupported claims, but the proof is BU's lack of forwards in the NHL compared to the past. It's so easy, even a fanboy can figure it out.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
since several schools who are winning titles are sending forwards to the NHL (BC, Michigan, Minnesota, UND, etc).
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Only one of the schools mentioned here can definitively fall into the "are winning titles" category. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one. And I'd take the state of the BU program over Minnesota's, the second most recent title winner there, right now any day of the week. Have they won an NCAA tournament game since 2005? Comparing BU and BC right now is unhelpful, because BC currently dwarfs everyone else in the country in terms of success. If you pair BU up against the other three listed there in terms of recent success, BU currently has a clear edge over Minnesota, is about on par with Michigan, maybe a step ahead because we have a title, and is probably a step behind North Dakota, though again, we have the recent title, they don't. But they have more overall success and have put more guys in the pros. There is only a very small handful of programs that you can look at right now and say that they are currently ahead of BU, with respect to recent achievements (say the last seven years, arbitrarily). I'm running on low sleep today, so forgive me if I'm missing a blaring exception, but BC seems to be the only one that jumps out as blatantly ahead of BU, and everyone else for that matter. You can make arguments for UNH, North Dakota, Michigan, Denver, and Miami, but the blaring hole for all of them except DU is the title, and they themselves have had a few off years. Point, let's all stop acting like Chicken Little. Some adjustments need to be made, not sweeping institutional changes. Comparing ourselves over the last five plus seasons to BC is stupid, they're Secretariat, and the rest of the country is battling for second. We just happen to play them a lot more than most of those other second place hunters.
 
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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

limey said:
This is an absurd argument. Because they have one FF, Parker doesn't develop talent?
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It's clear you have no issue with how players have developed. How do you feel about his team development? I ask this because I've heard plenty of BU fans say that the end results over the past 10+ years just aren't in line with what they expect.

BUTerrierfan said:
Chiasson will def go if he keeps loading up the goals as well. BU could easily lose three players if not four.
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I think Jimmy Hayes is a pretty good comparison for Chiasson. Not saying Chiasson won't leave, but my guess would be one more year.

One thing that's made BC so good is the number of key players that have stayed 3/4 years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two significant players to leave under York prior to their junior season were Kobasew and Kolanos back in 2001. If BC has them in 2001-2002, they might have been a fringe NCAA team rather than 6th in HE. It makes a huge difference. But, for that matter, I can only think of Wilson for BU in the same period. DiPietro if you go back one year.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Things would be mighty dull on this site without Jack Parker and BU. At least, for eastern college hockey fans.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
I mention forwards because back in the day, BU sent quite a bit of forwards to the NHL (Drury, Amonte, Tkachuk, etc). I guess do you feel, then, that since several schools who are winning titles are sending forwards to the NHL (BC, Michigan, Minnesota, UND, etc) then a.) BU isn't attracting NHL-quality talent up front or b.) He is still getting the talent and for whatever reason they aren't making the NHL anymore? Just curious from a BU perspective which one you think it is.

You mention unsupported claims, but the proof is BU's lack of forwards in the NHL compared to the past. It's so easy, even a fanboy can figure it out.
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Based on 30 seconds of rough research, here are the number of current NHL forwards who played at their respective college in the past decade:

BU: 3
BC: 4
MN: 4
ND: 3

Michigan dwarfs everyone. Did not have time to count because I have too much else to do, but it isnt close.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

slurpees said:
Only one of the schools mentioned here can definitively fall into the "are winning titles" category. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one. And I'd take the state of the BU program over Minnesota's, the second most recent title winner there, right now any day of the week. Have they won an NCAA tournament game since 2005? Comparing BU and BC right now is unhelpful, because BC currently dwarfs everyone else in the country in terms of success. If you pair BU up against the other three listed there in terms of recent success, BU currently has a clear edge over Minnesota, is about on par with Michigan, maybe a step ahead because we have a title, and is probably a step behind North Dakota, though again, we have the recent title, they don't. But they have more overall success and have put more guys in the pros. There is only a very small handful of programs that you can look at right now and say that they are currently ahead of BU, with respect to recent achievements (say the last seven years, arbitrarily). I'm running on low sleep today, so forgive me if I'm missing a blaring exception, but BC seems to be the only one that jumps out as blatantly ahead of BU, and everyone else for that matter. You can make arguments for UNH, North Dakota, Michigan, Denver, and Miami, but the blaring hole for all of them except DU is the title, and they themselves have had a few off years. Point, let's all stop acting like Chicken Little. Some adjustments need to be made, not sweeping institutional changes. Comparing ourselves over the last five plus seasons to BC is stupid, they're Secretariat, and the rest of the country is battling for second. We just happen to play them a lot more than most of those other second place hunters.
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Minnesota is the type of program, though, that you know will rebound. Not that BU won't, but there's always this talk about Massachusetts not producing hockey players like they used to. You dont hear that from Minnesota. Minnesota's problem, like BU's, is the coach has been there too long.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

limey said:
Based on 30 seconds of rough research, here are the number of current NHL forwards who played at their respective college in the past decade:

BU: 3
BC: 4
MN: 4
ND: 3

Michigan dwarfs everyone. Did not have time to count because I have too much else to do, but it isnt close.
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By my count, BC has 8 (Gionta, Boyle, Reasoner, Eaves, Kobasew, Shannon, Gerbe, and Ferriero). Steve Gionta also got a cup of coffee with NJ earlier this year, too. You are right about Michigan having more than any.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
Minnesota is the type of program, though, that you know will rebound. Not that BU won't, but there's always this talk about Massachusetts not producing hockey players like they used to. You dont hear that from Minnesota. Minnesota's problem, like BU's, is the coach has been there too long.
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But BU's recruiting base isn't solely Massachusetts or New England, so that point isn't all that valid, and not comparable to Minnesota. And BU's and Minnesota's coaching situations are not that similar.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
How is it ridiculous? Cronin gets the guys who can't get into BC or BU and keeps them competitive. The NU team I saw the other night looked just as fast and aggressive as the BU team I've seen this year. BU fell in love with that USNPDT team for a while and for the most part, the players were busts. Sabo, Maiser, McConnell, Miller all underachieved in my opinion and never got better. Ryan Whitney was the exception but he was NHL ready out of high school.
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I agree Cronin has done an outstanding job over at MC, but I used to think Blaise MacDonald at UML was amazing as well. I thought Blaise did a great job in the 08-09year and was thinking, "If he can do this at Lowell imagine what he could do at a different school." Their record this year has me wondering if he "got lucky" with that recruting class or if he can really coach at a high level. (I recognize that you could say the same thing about Parker over the last 5 years).

Can Cronin sustain this? Time will tell. If he can I'd imagine we'll be seeing him at a larger program in time.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Slasher7 said:
By my count, BC has 8 (Gionta, Boyle, Reasoner, Eaves, Kobasew, Shannon, Gerbe, and Ferriero). Steve Gionta also got a cup of coffee with NJ earlier this year, too. You are right about Michigan having more than any.
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Yeah. BC has 8 and I can think of a few more BU guys. Wilson, Drury, Yip, Bonino, McCarthy, and Van der Gulik have all played in the league this year. I know a coulpe of these guys have been up and down to the AHL and injured but there's more than 3.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Jacques Joubert said:
I agree Cronin has done an outstanding job over at MC, but I used to think Blaise MacDonald at UML was amazing as well. I thought Blaise did a great job in the 08-09year and was thinking, "If he can do this at Lowell imagine what he could do at a different school." Their record this year has me wondering if he "got lucky" with that recruting class or if he can really coach at a high level. (I recognize that you could say the same thing about Parker over the last 5 years).

Can Cronin sustain this? Time will tell. If he can I'd imagine we'll be seeing him at a larger program in time.
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NU has so much more to recruit to than Lowell does. The Beanpot, especially. I didnt think Cronin would work at NU, but he's getting the most out of what he can get for players. I agree with you that he may look at brighter pastures. You have to wonder if the CC job opens up (he was an assist there for three years) or the Maine job (hint, hint), he could end up there as he also worked on the bench under Walshy.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

buoldtimer said:
Things would be mighty dull on this site without Jack Parker and BU. At least, for eastern college hockey fans.
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Is it he's just "too hard" on the kids? I know he's never going to change, but with York being down Comm Ave, why would you choose BU over BC? Aside from the constant suspensions and benching of players, Glass, Bennett, and the Saponari bros. have all been dismissed from the team in the last three years, justified or not. Once word of that stuff gets around wouldn't an 18-21 year old kid go to a place where he'd at least have the impression that he'd get some chances if they made a mistake? Whatever happened with the green line car accident and all the alcohol at BC? After the initial story it just seemed to go away.

Another difference is that Jack appears to be more of a disciplinarian and Jerry appears to be more of a "father figure". You could see that plain as day in the televised pre-game skates prior to the Fenway game. You can also see it on the bench. Jack often screams while Jerry is often calm. Come to think of it, maybe that's why the BC kids stay in school longer?
 
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