Big Ten Hockey Conference

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

How? By shrinking?

If you think that other schools aren't looking at the perils of those current in D1 in this situation you are fooling yourself. Do you think Lindenwood is going to walk into a situation where your peers are looking at dropping out? Are other schools going to look at this as an opportunity or step out because Penn State will ALSO crowd them out of the market. Nothing happens in isolation.

This situation is nowhere near as easy as you seem to imply.

I never said the situation was easy, I said the choice was easy.

If fighting this means trying to preserve the WCHA as it is, then that's a losing cause. The WCHA's quirks are great, I love them - but they are largely anachronistic and contribute to the overall instability of college hockey.

My solution is (and always has been) that the CCHA takes Penn State, the WCHA and CCHA drop to, say 22 games, and the Big Ten schools can then schedule each other in the OOC season and play for a Big Ten cup.

First things first - they need to accept that things will change.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Denver Post reporter Mike Chambers talks to DU AD about Big Ten.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/...ten-hockey-conference-serious-business/12879/

For those of you with USCHO Extra, the college hockey reporters stated that college hockey will move towards smaller conferences including the AHA perhaps splitting in half to get an extra NCAA bid.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,18753/USCHORoundtableTalkingPennStateBigTen.html

 

[GopherBigGuy911]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

IF...... The addition of PSU causes other schools to join the D1 college hockey world... The state of college hockey will be just fine There is no reason why the rest of the WCHA - Minus MN and WI can't survive. If a TRUE Western Hockey Conference can be developed (Pac-8 teams plus the Alaska teams). Might it be tough and lean for a couple of years? Yeah it could, but growing pangs do suck. Do the Conferences need to be realigned to make travel less expensive for everyone?

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Uhm, yes it does...the check is just way smaller, they both set the prices for home playoff games, they both take the gate fees from JLA/Xcel, they use that money to pay for the refs and the operating budget for the conference, they probably even put some into a rainy day fund and then they split whats left and give a chunk to each of the member schools. The problem for the CCHA is their check is 8 to 10 times less than that of a WCHA school. Last time I heard the WCHA check in a good year hits 100k and the best I've ever heard mentioned for the CCHA is 15k.

So why would the CCHA be doomed if the big boys left (since they aren't loosing tens of thousands of dollars from a smaller super 6)? I think the fans going to see Miami play Ferris State are still going to go.

WCHA wise, people are still going to go see UMD play Bemiji. I guess UND and DU would be hurt the most IF they draw significantly less when Kato rolls into town vs UW or the rodents.

The more I think about it, the more I think college hockey will be fine when the b11 finally comes together. College hockey fans are college hockey fans in the end. I don't like the idea of the b11 HC , but it's not doomsday for college hockey.

I think in the end all of college hockey should re-align to conferences of no more than 8 teams, leaving plenty of room for n/c games.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The more I think about it, the more I think college hockey will be fine when the b11 finally comes together. College hockey fans are college hockey fans in the end. I don't like the idea of the b11 HC , but it's not doomsday for college hockey.

Unless, of course, it turns out that hockey fans at Denver, LSSU, Western Michigan and Bowling Green are really just Big Ten fans in disguise. In which case, they'll stop showing up and they'll all fall into the ocean.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So unless I missed something here...there's talk of a 'revolt' of some of the better schools DU, UND, etc potentially leaving 'lesser WCHA schools'. For what purpose?

Is there thinking that some other 'better' schools might join from the CCHA? If so who? Are those schools that much greater that you would travel nearly a thousand miles to play them?

Keep in mind that markets like UMD and BSU are filled with a hockey culture that you don't see in Denver or even Grand Forks. There are not just ready fans for games...but ready recruits. Indeed, northern Minnesota...SCSU, UMD and BSU areas...have pound for pound probably the richest hockey talent per capita in the country. I don't know that I'd be so quick to cut any of these schools...but thats me.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So unless I missed something here...there's talk of a 'revolt' of some of the better schools DU, UND, etc potentially leaving 'lesser WCHA schools'. For what purpose?

Is there thinking that some other 'better' schools might join from the CCHA? If so who? Are those schools that much greater that you would travel nearly a thousand miles to play them?

Keep in mind that markets like UMD and BSU are filled with a hockey culture that you don't see in Denver or even Grand Forks. There are not just ready fans for games...but ready recruits. Indeed, northern Minnesota...SCSU, UMD and BSU areas...have pound for pound probably the richest hockey talent per capita in the country. I don't know that I'd be so quick to cut any of these schools...but thats me.

By lesser wcha schools, I would think they are just talking about Tech and UAA because they are outliers and have been terrible lately

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So unless I missed something here...there's talk of a 'revolt' of some of the better schools DU, UND, etc potentially leaving 'lesser WCHA schools'. For what purpose?

You only have to look at college football and basketball conference realignments to see the gameplan.

Money, exposure, ticket sales, playoff revenue sharing and television would be the driving force behind conference realignment. Some schools have built, are currently building or have broken ground on new arenas. It stands to reason that they would want to see a maximum return on their investment.

Minnesota and Wisconsin want to bail on the WCHA for a better deal, but they don't want other schools to do the same thing.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So why would the CCHA be doomed if the big boys left (since they aren't loosing tens of thousands of dollars from a smaller super 6)? I think the fans going to see Miami play Ferris State are still going to go. ...

What is this "Super Six" you speak of?

The CCHA hasn't had that in five years.

 

[mksioux]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So unless I missed something here...there's talk of a 'revolt' of some of the better schools DU, UND, etc potentially leaving 'lesser WCHA schools'. For what purpose?

Is there thinking that some other 'better' schools might join from the CCHA? If so who? Are those schools that much greater that you would travel nearly a thousand miles to play them?

Obvously the departure of Minnesota and Wisconsin from the WCHA will have a big impact on all the remaining WCHA schools, but I think it will be particularly interesting to see what Denver and North Dakota do. It seems to me they are the only two of the remaining schools that have the means to actually do something about it (if they choose).

Denver and North Dakota have a tradition, history, and current excellence unmatched by any of the remaining schools in the WCHA once Minnesota and Wisconsin leave. Denver and North Dakota will be the only Division I schools left in the conference. Denver and North Dakota will be the only schools left with a meaningful television contract/network. On ice, North Dakota and Denver will be the only schools left with a semi-recent national title to their name. What will happen if Denver and North Dakota stay in what, at best, will be considered a mid-major conference, or, at worst, a Minnesota-based DII conference? That's a big risk.

This is a bigger issue than the current competitive makeup of the WCHA and who is currently "good" and "not good". What allows small schools inthe WCHA to be competitive is the fact that they play in a premier conference and are considered conference equals to big time schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin. Take that away, and I don't think any of us know exactly what that will mean for the small schools remaining in the WCHA. It certainly won't be good.

And there is a lot of money at stake, particuarly for Denver and North Dakota whose hockey teams are funding a big part of their entire DI athletic budgets. If the Denver and North Dakota programs are no longer perceived as "big time" it could have serious ramifications on their entire athletic departments down the road.

I like the idea that if Minnesota and Wisconsin bail from the WCHA, Denver and North Dakota should allign with Miami and Notre Dame and form the cornerstone of a new conference. CC would obviously follow Denver. And invite three more CCHA/WCHA programs to get to 8 and maybe try to pry Air Force from the AHA. All I know is that I will be very disappointed if UND just stays put in the WCHA.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It's amazing how much hockey teams' identities are tied up in who they play, rather than who they are. That's a side of these big-time programs I hadn't seen before.


Powers &8^]

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It's amazing how much hockey teams' identities are tied up in who they play, rather than who they are. That's a side of these big-time programs I hadn't seen before.


Powers &8^]

Yep. It's almost like they think that schools who draw 2500 fans per game and are happy to occasionally play in their league's championship game are somehow not really part of college hockey. That's what college hockey is all about for ~40 schools - and they've been doing that for years and years, no problem. Welcome to the club.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It's amazing how much hockey teams' identities are tied up in who they play, rather than who they are. That's a side of these big-time programs I hadn't seen before.


Powers &8^]

Equally amazing that the continued existence of so many smaller programs is tied up in who they play, rather than who they are.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Minnesota and Wisconsin want to bail on the WCHA for a better deal, but they don't want other schools to do the same thing.

What the hell are you talking about? How do you get the idea that MN and WI want to leave the WCHA? Sure, the WI AD has made some comments about the BT, but I haven't seen anything, from anyone else, even remotely suggesting there is a desire within the WI or MN hockey programs (or more generally athletic dpts.) to break from the WCHA.

Earlier you made the comment that DU and UND needed to put pressure on Lucia to "deal with" the smaller MN schools. Lucia has absolutely no say in what conference the Gopher hockey team plays in.

I understand you are upset about the prospect of a BTHC forming, but your anger is being directed in totally the wrong place.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Equally amazing that the continued existence of so many smaller programs is tied up in who they play, rather than who they are.

Equally amazing is the current big ten member schools and their belief that in a sport like hockey where traditional conferences have never existed, they need to form the bthc

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Equally amazing is the current big ten member schools and their belief that in a sport like hockey where traditional conferences have never existed, they need to form the bthc

You can't market your Big Ten schools on the BigTen Network if they're not part of the Big Ten Conference.

How confusing is it for bouncyball/football Joe to turn on the TV and wonder what the * this CCHA/WCHA logo crap is while watching their BigTen team?

It's kinda like the shootout. Most of us hate it, but to the casual fan, it's a great thing.




^[1] I'd like to just point out that while I like the shootout, I am NOT in support of the Big10 conference.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You can't market your Big Ten schools on the BigTen Network if they're not part of the Big Ten Conference.

How confusing is it for bouncyball/football Joe to turn on the TV and wonder what the * this CCHA/WCHA logo crap is while watching their BigTen team?

It's kinda like the shootout. Most of us hate it, but to the casual fan, it's a great thing.




^[1] I'd like to just point out that while I like the shootout, I am NOT in support of the Big10 conference.

Who cares if they are confused as long as they are watching and why wouldn't they watch as long as its Wisconsin, Minnesota, MSU, Michigan, PSU, OSU vs someone?

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So unless I missed something here...there's talk of a 'revolt' of some of the better schools DU, UND, etc potentially leaving 'lesser WCHA schools'. For what purpose?

Is there thinking that some other 'better' schools might join from the CCHA? If so who? Are those schools that much greater that you would travel nearly a thousand miles to play them?

Yes. DU has to fly to most games anyway, so distance isn't the issue. Follow the money. DU and UND have invested well over $100 million each to run with the big dogs of college hockey, and they also have TV contracts at stake. In DU's case, their season ticket base is in a very competitive sports market sustained by people who pay $25 or $30 a seat, and they won't continue to pay that kind of money for a second tier conference comprised of DII schools.

DU and UND want to keep pace with the elite of the game, and it won't help them to play in a reduced WCHA.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

What the hell are you talking about? How do you get the idea that MN and WI want to leave the WCHA? Sure, the WI AD has made some comments about the BT, but I haven't seen anything, from anyone else, even remotely suggesting there is a desire within the WI or MN hockey programs (or more generally athletic dpts.) to break from the WCHA.

Earlier you made the comment that DU and UND needed to put pressure on Lucia to "deal with" the smaller MN schools. Lucia has absolutely no say in what conference the Gopher hockey team plays in.

I understand you are upset about the prospect of a BTHC forming, but your anger is being directed in totally the wrong place.

Well, in the case of Minnesota, you're right. But Wisconsin's athletic department is run by a "football is the only thing that matters" sort of jerkwagon who wouldn't know a hockey puck if it hit him in his bald head. (By the way, Alvarez not-so-secretly wants a BTHC and during negotiations with Big Ten officials has even threatened to send UW to the CCHA in an effort to get it going)

Equally amazing is the current big ten member schools and their belief that in a sport like hockey where traditional conferences have never existed, they need to form the bthc

Can't argue with that one.

You can't market your Big Ten schools on the BigTen Network if they're not part of the Big Ten Conference.

How confusing is it for bouncyball/football Joe to turn on the TV and wonder what the * this CCHA/WCHA logo crap is while watching their BigTen team?

It's kinda like the shootout. Most of us hate it, but to the casual fan, it's a great thing.




^[1] I'd like to just point out that while I like the shootout, I am NOT in support of the Big10 conference.

Never understimate the fact that a lot of sports fans (not college hockey fans, of course) are complete morons.

 

[mksioux]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It's amazing how much hockey teams' identities are tied up in who they play, rather than who they are. That's a side of these big-time programs I hadn't seen before.


Powers &8^]

No different than what's going on with the rest of college athletics right now and all the conference re-shuffling. The whole point of athletic conferences is that it's a big deal who you play against.