Big Ten Hockey Conference

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Which will kill off the rest of the teams. This scenario is what will lead to 4-5 teams folding, with a very good possibility of multiple former national champions being in that group.

So, then who has responsibility for stopping the stratification?

The Big 10 or the mid majors?

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So, then who has responsibility for stopping the stratification?

The Big 10 or the mid majors?

Well the rest of the hockey world didn't seem to care when the UIC Flames folded. Nor Iona. Nor Wayne State.


Why should they care when Michigan Tech, Lake State, Bowling Green, and Northern Michigan all decide to fold up shop? As it is, the CCHA is ALREADY in a cost containment mode in an effort to keep some of these programs afloat.

 

[moose97]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The coaches salary investments are tiny compared to the rink boom that the WCHA schools spent to keep up with the Wisconsins and Minnesotas.

There is a positive and a negative here.

I've long said the biggest difference between the W and the C is the rinks. Think about this - after this December 30th, the oldest rink in the WCHA will be MTU's, and it got a multi-million dollar renovation only one year ago to add suites, and has had multiple renovations to the hockey area. Other than that, the next oldest rink is UAA's Sullivan Arena, built in 1983 (and there is iscussion to build a new rink on the UAA campus). From there, it's the SCSU National Hockey Center (1989 - again, expected to begin major renovations next spring), then every other rink, with two new ones opening in the next three months. The CCHA? For every OSU, Miami and NMU (and even ND rink under construction), there's a FSU, WMU or BGSU rink that isn't even close to a bottom of the barrel WCHA barn...

Now, like I said, there is a positive and a negative to this. On the plus side, I think this is exactly what has positioned the WCHA schools to maybe ride out a BTHC. On the negative, if the WCHA realigns itself, or the "big programs" from the W and the C merge, the Mankato's or the Bemidji's of the world have sunk a ton* into their barn, and have as much to lose, or more, as FSU, WMU or BGSU...


*yes, they are city run rinks, but the city didn't pay to buy BSU a new weightroom, or equip the lockerrooms, or the office areas, etc.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The coaches salary investments are tiny compared to the rink boom that the WCHA schools spent to keep up with the Wisconsins and Minnesotas.

DU fills it's rink becuase casual Denver people find it credible to buy season tickets where DU is in a league with two Big 10 powers. In other words, they tolerate the Mankatos and St. Clouds because they know Wisconsin or Minnesota is coming. If those two B-10 programs leave, DU season ticket sales will drop 15-20% right off the bat. You can't charge $30 per seat to see Mankato and Bemidji in this competitive market without the promise of the the Big 10 teams.

That says more about how small DU's fanbase actually is than anything else. In theory, DU fans would be buying season tickets because they want to see DU hockey.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Well the rest of the hockey world didn't seem to care when the UIC Flames folded. Nor Iona. Nor Wayne State.


Why should they care when Michigan Tech, Lake State, Bowling Green, and Northern Michigan all decide to fold up shop? As it is, the CCHA is ALREADY in a cost containment mode in an effort to keep some of these programs afloat.

To be fair, UIC, Iona and WSU never had the tradition that MTU, LSSU, BGSU and NMU have.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

In theory, DU fans would be buying season tickets because they want to see DU hockey.

DU has an overall fan base of 10,000-15,000 people, total with about 3,000 buying some kind of season tickets. Most people in Denver were not born here and did not grow up with DU or the sport, and as a private school, there is a pretty big gulf between the die hards (maybe 1,000-2,000) and the casuals (the other 4,000) making up our crowd of 6,000 at Magness.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

That says more about how small DU's fanbase actually is than anything else. In theory, DU fans would be buying season tickets because they want to see DU hockey.

DU has 5,000 undergraduates and CC has under 2,000. That means that DU AND CC are only graduating maybe 1,750 new alumni each year. Most of these students also come from and relocate out of state after graduation.

You could take every living DU & CC alum and probably not fill Camp Randall.

Most DU fans and almost all CC fans didn't graduate from the schools.

 

[COHockey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

That says more about how small DU's fanbase actually is than anything else. In theory, DU fans would be buying season tickets because they want to see DU hockey.

I would say for every one DU core fan there is two casual hockey fans in the season ticket holder base. Some defected from the Avs when those tickets rose in price, others are hockey fans who see value. Very few people grew up in Denver. Even smaller are the ties with DU. In a metro area awash with out-of-state, CU, CSU, UNC, and even Metro grads, DU is small fry.

For recreation dollars and time, DU hockey has to compete against professional sports, excellent museums (King Tut is currently at the Denver Art Museum) and other cultural attractions, plus the great outdoors.

Even with all that the Denver area has to offer, and the small core fanbase that DU can generate, DU hockey has surpassed all my expectations of what they have accomplished.

DU is not Minnesota or Wisconsin.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

DU has 5,000 undergraduates and CC has under 2,000. That means that DU AND CC are only graduating maybe 1,750 new alumni each year. Most of these students also come from and relocate out of state after graduation.

You could take every living DU & CC alum and probably not fill Camp Randall.

Most DU fans and almost all CC fans didn't graduate from the schools.

DU sounds familiar to BC in that respect. BC is able to compete though and it has to compete in Boston which is a Pro Market town and with plenty of competition from all the other schools in the area including a pretty major one right down the street.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The CCHA does not operate like the WCHA. There is no "participation" checks written to teams that partake in the CCHA Championship, or miss it.

The CCHA sets the pricing for playoff home games on campus sites, and that money goes to the CCHA. The CCHA keeps the gate fees from JLA.

Uhm, yes it does...the check is just way smaller, they both set the prices for home playoff games, they both take the gate fees from JLA/Xcel, they use that money to pay for the refs and the operating budget for the conference, they probably even put some into a rainy day fund and then they split whats left and give a chunk to each of the member schools. The problem for the CCHA is their check is 8 to 10 times less than that of a WCHA school. Last time I heard the WCHA check in a good year hits 100k and the best I've ever heard mentioned for the CCHA is 15k.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

DU has 5,000 undergraduates and CC has under 2,000. That means that DU AND CC are only graduating maybe 1,750 new alumni each year. Most of these students also come from and relocate out of state after graduation.

You could take every living DU & CC alum and probably not fill Camp Randall.

Most DU fans and almost all CC fans didn't graduate from the schools.

On a brighter note, the last time DU didn't regularily face Wisconsin and MN, the 1960's, you guys were fielding some pretty dominant teams.

 

[du78]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

On a brighter note, the last time DU didn't regularily face Wisconsin and MN, the 1960's, you guys were fielding some pretty dominant teams.

Yeah, Wisconsin hadn't joined the WCHA yet but DU still had to face Michigan and Michigan State every year along with very strong UND and MTU teams. The old WCHA was the BTHC without OSU.

WCHA in 1970s

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Denver
North Dakota
Minnesota-Duluth
Michigan Tech
Colorado College

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Yeah, Wisconsin hadn't joined the WCHA yet but DU still had to face Michigan and Michigan State every year along with very strong UND and MTU teams. The old WCHA was the BTHC without OSU.

WCHA in 1970s

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Denver
North Dakota
Minnesota-Duluth
Michigan Tech
Colorado College

Lets just go back to this conference. Tech would win 2 games a year, and both would be against Duluth.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

We don't even know if the 'mid-major rebels' even exist yet. Not one maintream media source has even mentioned anything other than status quo once the Big 10 team leave.

I'd say there is a pretty good chance they'll lie down and just take the big 10 ramrod into the posterior as a benefit of the 'unity of the WCHA' or the 'unity of the CCHA'.

I am hoping for some proactivity...

Considering that football issues are off his plate for a while, I'd certainly hope that Jack Swarbrick is being proactive. That's certainly very much his style. Mind you, his style is also that we don't hear a word about what he's actually working on while he's working on it...

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You can see that Lucia doesn't want to talk about UND, DU, CC and whomever else bolting the decimated WCHA.

The best thing the mid-major rebels could do is publicly announce that if the BTHC forms, they're leaving as well. That lays the cards out in the open and forces Alvarez and Lucia to deal with the smaller Minnesota schools.

Maybe the mid-major rebels are waiting for the official announcement of what Penn State is doing...it seems rather premature to speak doomsday type stuff publicly until we actually hear Penn State say, "Yes, we are starting a DI hockey team and hope to begin play for the 2011-2012 season. We hope to gain admission to the CCHA." or whatever that is probably coming on friday.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Maybe the mid-major rebels are waiting for the official announcement of what Penn State is doing...it seems rather premature to speak doomsday type stuff publicly until we actually hear Penn State say, "Yes, we are starting a DI hockey team and hope to begin play for the 2011-2012 season. We hope to gain admission to the CCHA." or whatever that is probably coming on friday.

I think Penn State will bypass the Big Ten and CCHA, and go directly to the NHL.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

....

For recreation dollars and time, DU hockey has to compete against professional sports, excellent museums (King Tut is currently at the Denver Art Museum) and other cultural attractions, ...

in all my years of leaving hockey rinks, a conversation i've never overheard is:

"great game tonight, huh? will i see you next game?"
"hmmm. maybe. might go to the museum instead."

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

in all my years of leaving hockey rinks, a conversation i've never overheard is:

"great game tonight, huh? will i see you next game?"
"hmmm. maybe. might go to the museum instead."

Especially since most museums are typically "daytime" entertainment and won't be open when "evening" events like ice hockey are scheduled.

 

[Patman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I don't see that at all. I see BTHC talking like the change is inevitable, and now the question is about how to minimize the damage.

The change is inevitable because the current system is unsustainable. Ergo, nostalgia for keeping the system as-is is misplaced, since the current, unsustainable arrangement cannot hold.

Hockey needs to grow or it will shrink. I choose growth, and welcome Penn State. Now, we need to manage that growth.

How? By shrinking?

If you think that other schools aren't looking at the perils of those current in D1 in this situation you are fooling yourself. Do you think Lindenwood is going to walk into a situation where your peers are looking at dropping out? Are other schools going to look at this as an opportunity or step out because Penn State will ALSO crowd them out of the market. Nothing happens in isolation.

This situation is nowhere near as easy as you seem to imply.

 

[du78]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Mike Chambers of the Denver Post weighs in on the issue.

Denver Post

One of the quotes from his DU blog in the paper.

It’s no secret DU athletic director Peg Bradley-Doppes spends much of her time trying to find a new conference for the school’s core sports, primarily the men’s basketball team. The Sun Belt Conference just doesn’t work.

But in my meeting with Bradley-Doppes recently, she said she is just as concerned about the future conference of the hockey team, the school’s flagship program.