Big Ten Hockey Conference

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

UND sportswriter Brad Schlossman offers up his opinion:

http://undhockey.areavoices.com/2010/09/15/how-appealing-is-big-ten-hockey/

I thought this was one of Brad's poorer efforts, candidly. He set up, and then knocked down, a bunch of arguments in favor of a Big 10 conference that no has made, nor will they.

They aren't going to form a BTHC for the autobid, nor are they to make the schedule more attractive. These teams already play each other each year.

Also, they won't have any trouble scheduling non-conference opponents.

I thought his only interesting point was the loss of income to the conference due to the loss of a first round of playoffs, but I don't know how significant that will be, or whether it won't be made up in other ways, such as through the BTN.

The reason a BTHC will be formed once Penn St. gets up and running, I believe, is because the Big 10 administration will want it. They want their programs all together under one umbrella. They want to market a BTHC as the home of 20+ national championships. They want to award a BTHC trophy. They want more programming for their network (although I fear college hockey may take a backseat to bb). I don't blame them for that.

But I really don't see that it will change the hockey landscape all that much. The WCHA will continue as a 10 team league. There will be no realignment with Miami, Notre Dame or other teams.

The CCHA will continue as an eight team league. It will probably see less overall success, but will likely continue on the ECAC model.

All the Big 10 teams will be together. They'll try to assist other Big 10 schools to get programs up and running. It's members will have success on the national stage, as they've always had, but they certainly won't dominate, or kill college hockey, they way some seem to feel.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Since teams like Michigan and Minnesota usually sell out all their nonconference games, they make more money playing at home and have very little incentive to play nonconference games on the road.

Even if Minnesota does visit UND, SCSU, UMD, MSU-M and Bemidji occasionally, nonconference games will lack the intensity, excitement and importance of games that count in the standings.

But as Brad Schlossman points on in his blog ...

If Minnesota has to fill out 14-16 nonconference games, it is going to have to travel a lot more often, because I can’t imagine schools like UND, Denver, Colorado College, etc., agreeing to play Minnesota without a return trip guaranteed. So, Minnesota and Wisconsin will either have to play extremely watered-down schedules or else travel for nonconference

Do you think Denver would really agree to play Minnesota only at Mariucci? I'm pretty certain UND would tell them to kiss off if they had to give up that much revenue. Then again, UND seems to schedule nonconference games where it travels one year, and the opponent goes to REA another.

The lack of good nonconference games could impact the BTHC teams' bottom lines at home, or the need to travel for nonconference games could hit their bottom line due to travel costs. I don't see most teams paying to have Minnesota or Wisconsin play in their barn.

Moreover, conference or not, those nonconference games would probably impact the PWR.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

But as Brad Schlossman points on in his blog ...



Do you think Denver would really agree to play Minnesota only at Mariucci? I'm pretty certain UND would tell them to kiss off if they had to give up that much revenue. Then again, UND seems to schedule nonconference games where it travels one year, and the opponent goes to REA another.

The lack of good nonconference games could impact the BTHC teams' bottom lines at home, or the need to travel for nonconference games could hit their bottom line due to travel costs. I don't see most teams paying to have Minnesota or Wisconsin play in their barn.

Moreover, conference or not, those nonconference games would probably impact the PWR.

I don't think anyone (except for a couple annoying Denver fans) are worried about teams like DU and UND getting through this. It is MSU-M, BSU, MTU, WMU, FSU, etc. that are screwed.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The reason a BTHC will be formed once Penn St. gets up and running, I believe, is because the Big 10 administration will want it. They want their programs all together under one umbrella. They want to market a BTHC as the home of 20+ national championships. They want to award a BTHC trophy. They want more programming for their network (although I fear college hockey may take a backseat to bb). I don't blame them for that.

It's not so much that we should fear that, as much as we need to accept the inevitability of that.

Although, in UW's case, it really won't be much of a change from the status quo. It might actually be an improvement.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I don't think anyone (except for a couple annoying Denver fans) are worried about teams like DU and UND getting through this. It is MSU-M, BSU, MTU, WMU, FSU, etc. that are screwed.

Count me in as annoying, then. I would feel royally screwed by a BTHC. Denver has spent over $100 million in the past 15 years to run with the big dogs in western hockey, and I hate to see that investment relegated into a weakened WCHA, with the major accompanying league tourney revenue loss, the loss in recruiting and TV exposure with DU no longer in the best league and the serious drop in clout without the big time D-I schools in the same league.. All the Western programs outside the Big 10 are getting screwed by this... I want to see my program thrive, not just survive!

 

[moose97]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Do you think Denver would really agree to play Minnesota only at Mariucci? I'm pretty certain UND would tell them to kiss off if they had to give up that much revenue. Then again, UND seems to schedule nonconference games where it travels one year, and the opponent goes to REA another.

I think this is a good point. I stated earlier that I believe the Gophers will set up several 2-for-1's or the like, where they get DU or UND, or SCSU or the like at home two yers in a row, then have to travel in year three. We'll see...

 

[ScottM]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

All the Western programs outside the Big 10 are getting screwed by this... I want to see my program thrive, not just survive!

I tend to agree, and that's one reason why I don't see any need for UND to cut any special favors to Minnesota or Wisconsin in the event they do leave the WCHA. I also agree with sentiment expressed below that the smaller schools like Tech, Bemidji, etc. are probably more hosed than bigger schools who may have more options and money.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I thought this was one of Brad's poorer efforts, candidly. He set up, and then knocked down, a bunch of arguments in favor of a Big 10 conference that no has made, nor will they.

They aren't going to form a BTHC for the autobid, nor are they to make the schedule more attractive. These teams already play each other each year.

Also, they won't have any trouble scheduling non-conference opponents.

I thought his only interesting point was the loss of income to the conference due to the loss of a first round of playoffs, but I don't know how significant that will be, or whether it won't be made up in other ways, such as through the BTN.

The reason a BTHC will be formed once Penn St. gets up and running, I believe, is because the Big 10 administration will want it. They want their programs all together under one umbrella. They want to market a BTHC as the home of 20+ national championships. They want to award a BTHC trophy. They want more programming for their network (although I fear college hockey may take a backseat to bb). I don't blame them for that.

But I really don't see that it will change the hockey landscape all that much. The WCHA will continue as a 10 team league. There will be no realignment with Miami, Notre Dame or other teams.

The CCHA will continue as an eight team league. It will probably see less overall success, but will likely continue on the ECAC model.

All the Big 10 teams will be together. They'll try to assist other Big 10 schools to get programs up and running. It's members will have success on the national stage, as they've always had, but they certainly won't dominate, or kill college hockey, they way some seem to feel.

I also don't see the scheduling arguments.

For one, if everybody reduced their conference schedules from the 28 game length to more like 20-22, that would be a good thing for college hockey. I've harped on that for a long time, and it just might happen that such an arrangement might keep the Big Ten teams in their respective conferences with a Big Ten Cup.

The hockey ratio of Conference games to OOC games is ridiculously high:

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=77561

It's part of the problem why smaller conferences and start-up teams can't get going.

Does anyone think that a school of Penn State's stature would be starting up a program if they didn't think they'd be able to find a conference home?

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

There is no way the legislature in this state would do anything that benefits MnSCU schools at the expense of UMTC. And as has been stated, a non-conference pity game will not maintain the "major conference" image that is needed to interest people in Mankato.

Gentlemen, for the smaller schools outside of the Big Ten, the Barbarians are gathering outside of the gates, getting ready to tear your world apart. If you're not willing to take up arms now to at least try to keep the BTHC from happening as a full fledged conference, then when will you take up arms to save your programs from budget cuts. Mankato, Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior, Ferris, Western Michigan, Bowling Green and Miami are all in the same boat here of being left out in the dark without a Big Ten school from their home state being there to come to their place to help them pay the bills. The fight to save your programs from a long slow death starts now. Doing at least something now beats sitting around and watching the slow death happen. Its crazy to think that they would listen, but just trying to fight this now shows em that you do care.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Gentlemen, for the smaller schools outside of the Big Ten, the Barbarians are gathering outside of the gates, getting ready to tear your world apart. If you're not willing to take up arms now to at least try to keep the BTHC from happening as a full fledged conference, then when will you take up arms to save your programs from budget cuts. Mankato, Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior, Ferris, Western Michigan, Bowling Green and Miami are all in the same boat here of being left out in the dark without a Big Ten school from their home state being there to come to their place to help them pay the bills. The fight to save your programs from a long slow death starts now. Doing at least something now beats sitting around and watching the slow death happen. Its crazy to think that they would listen, but just trying to fight this now shows em that you do care.

Also: stop being so dependent on the big teams and start drawing more fans to your own arena. (Easier said than done, I know... most people are moronic sheep)

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Also: stop being so dependent on the big teams and start drawing more fans to your own arena. (Easier said than done, I know... most people are moronic sheep)

This is key.... Earlier in one of the threads, I did a breakdown of what NMU could possibly lose without the UM/MSU meal ticket games each season... Yes, it was a loss in revenue, but it wasn't anywhere near catastrophic...

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Gentlemen, for the smaller schools outside of the Big Ten, the Barbarians are gathering outside of the gates, getting ready to tear your world apart. If you're not willing to take up arms now to at least try to keep the BTHC from happening as a full fledged conference, then when will you take up arms to save your programs from budget cuts. Mankato, Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior, Ferris, Western Michigan, Bowling Green and Miami are all in the same boat here of being left out in the dark without a Big Ten school from their home state being there to come to their place to help them pay the bills. The fight to save your programs from a long slow death starts now. Doing at least something now beats sitting around and watching the slow death happen. Its crazy to think that they would listen, but just trying to fight this now shows em that you do care.

Cash/check donations to the "Anti-Big10" can be mailed to:

Wildcat Hockey - Berry Events Center
Northern Michigan University
1401 Presque Isle Ave
Marquette, MI 49855






... now might just be a good time for the NMU Blueline Club to do what they were started to, and support the team financially rather than just be content currently as a fan club...

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

My guess is that Penn State will join the CCHA out of the gate and all the B10 teams will have a scheduling agreement. Unfortunatley, that doesn't leave many OOC games for those schools. I can see the scheduling agreement turning into a decision to form their own conference, but not for the next dozen years.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I love how the Big 10 people talk like the the damage to college hockey will be minimal. Bullpuck.

The WCHA is being drained of its primary league revenue sources, its primary visibility machine in Minneapolis, as well as its recruiting edge. All gone in a BTHC. Of course it can 'survive' as a 10 team league, but it will be a mid-major league, and no longer a premier league.

The CCHA is being gutted of its only major revenue producing programs, it's league revenue sources and falls even further behind in recruiting. Some of its members may not survive at all in the next 5-10 years. It goes from being a league with a solid top half to a mid major league with only a couple of national contenders.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I love how the Big 10 people talk like the the damage to college hockey will be minimal. Bullpuck.

I don't see that at all. I see BTHC talking like the change is inevitable, and now the question is about how to minimize the damage.

The change is inevitable because the current system is unsustainable. Ergo, nostalgia for keeping the system as-is is misplaced, since the current, unsustainable arrangement cannot hold.

Hockey needs to grow or it will shrink. I choose growth, and welcome Penn State. Now, we need to manage that growth.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Gentlemen, for the smaller schools outside of the Big Ten, the Barbarians are gathering outside of the gates, getting ready to tear your world apart. If you're not willing to take up arms now to at least try to keep the BTHC from happening as a full fledged conference, then when will you take up arms to save your programs from budget cuts. Mankato, Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior, Ferris, Western Michigan, Bowling Green and Miami are all in the same boat here of being left out in the dark without a Big Ten school from their home state being there to come to their place to help them pay the bills. The fight to save your programs from a long slow death starts now. Doing at least something now beats sitting around and watching the slow death happen. Its crazy to think that they would listen, but just trying to fight this now shows em that you do care.

Michigan Tech averaged 4147 in weekend attendance for it's WCHA home games last year. They averaged 4229 per weekends Big 10 teams were in town and 4114 for the other 5 weekends. That's just one example. I hope the loss of those 100 tickets per weekend doesn't spell the difference between life and death for teams like Tech.

There will certainly be loss of revenue in the playoffs. Right now both the CCHA and WCHA benefit from having 1st round playoffs, usually at the homes of teams like Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan that have the larger barns and draw well. Also, both conference tournaments draw particularily well due to each conference presently having "draw" teams in their conference.

But I believe the loss of playoff revenue will affect all college hockey teams, including the Big 10 teams. The Big 10 will lose it's first round of playoffs at home and will just have to generate revenue from the 6 team tourney. The WCHA and CCHA will lose out on the big schools hosting first round playoffs and an obvious decrease in attendance at their tourneys.

In that sense, all of college hockey will be harmed. But I don't think it will fall exclusively on the non-Big 10 schools.

 

[grabij]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I think this is a good point. I stated earlier that I believe the Gophers will set up several 2-for-1's or the like, where they get DU or UND, or SCSU or the like at home two yers in a row, then have to travel in year three. We'll see...

That is a pretty good solution and hopefully one they would go with. Minnesota currently plays 14 away games each year in conference plus two more every other year against Michigan and Michigan State. With a 20 game BTHC schedule they could have 4-6 non-conf away games and still have the same number of home games. Whether that is what would happen or not is another question entirely.

 

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So how would that be different than the current setup?

It means Minnesota doesn't travel to all their old WCHA rivals, which isn't really a good thing. IMO, the AD at Minnesota wants as much revenue as they can from all their non conference games.

 

[Schlacker Rat]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

If this Big Ten thing does happen, I'm thinking that they would still want the "Alaska" exemption for playing up here. That way each Big Ten school would get two additional home games. That is why the current CCHA cluster has us (Nanooks) with the three Big Ten teams.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The WCHA and CCHA will not survive the loss of these major programs. There is too much "dead wood" left over.

With the BTHC as a six team conference its logical to expect a six or eight team "mid-major" conference popping up to provide plenty of non-conference dates for the BTHC.

The leftover schools (small-majors) will scramble and form their own smaller conference. Some schools then will undoubtedly be left without a conference.

How will the six team conferences host their playoffs? Bottom four teams play best of threes at the #3 and #4 seeds. Then the "Final Fours" will be hosted on the campus of the conference winners.

With only six teams to share the money, most teams in the BTHC will make more than the Final 5 shares ($80-100 thousand). The mid-major conference will produce smaller but similar to equal shares of the previous Final 5 shares.

BTHC Playoffs
#6 Penn State @ #3 Minnesota (10,000 fans per game @ $25) (2 or 3 games)
#5 Ohio State @ #4 Michigan State (8,000 fans per game @ $20) (2 or 3 games)

BTHC Final Four
#4 Michigan State @ #1 Wisconsin (15,000 fans x 3 games @ $25)
#3 Minnesota vs. #2 Michigan)

That scenario produces $750,000 to run the BTHC, pay the refs and offset the playoff expenses. With only 6 teams you need far less refs and overhead. The Big Ten will run the league office, so no expenses there. Each team should take home over $200,000. Obviously this is almost $200,000 more than the CCHA schools make now.

The Mid-Major Conference will have smaller numbers but with North Dakota (10,000 seats), DU (6,000), Duluth (7,000), CC (7,000), Notre Dame (6,000), Miami (3,000) they'll still make money.