Big Ten Hockey Conference

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The WCHA and CCHA will not survive the loss of these major programs. There is too much "dead wood" left over.

With the BTHC as a six team conference its logical to expect a six or eight team "mid-major" conference popping up to provide plenty of non-conference dates for the BTHC.

The leftover schools (small-majors) will scramble and form their own smaller conference.

Some schools then will undoubtedly be left without a conference.

How will the six team conferences host their playoffs? Bottom four teams play best of threes at the #3 and #4 seeds. Then the "Final Fours" will be hosted on the campus of the conference winners.

With only six teams to share the money, most teams in the BTHC will make more than the Final 5 shares ($80-100 thousand). The mid-major conference will produce smaller by close to equal shares of Final 5 shares.

BTHC Playoffs
#6 Penn State @ #3 Minnesota (10,000 fans per game @ $25)
#5 Ohio State @ #4 Michigan State (8,000 fans per game @ $20)

#4 Michigan State @ #1 Wisconsin (15,000 fans x 3 games @ $25)
#3 Minnesota vs. #2 Michigan)

That produces $750,000 to run the BTHC, pay the refs and offset the playoff expenses. With only 6 teams you need far less refs and overhead and the Big Ten will run the league office, so no expenses there. Each team should take home over $125,000.

The Mid-Major Conference will have smaller numbers but with North Dakota (10,000 seats), DU (6,000), Duluth (7,000), CC (7,000), Notre Dame (6,000), Miami (3,000) they'll still make money.

Take out the operational costs of hosting the event and that number comes down significantly... Also, I can't see 15,000 fans showing up for separate semi-final games... Maybe for the home team's game, but not both... Remember, half of your visiting schools will be traveling 4-6 hours at minimum... That will kill the traveling ticket sales...

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Take out the operational costs of hosting the event and that number comes down significantly... Also, I can't see 15,000 fans showing up for separate semi-final games... Maybe for the home team's game, but not both... Remember, half of your visiting schools will be traveling 4-6 hours at minimum... That will kill the traveling ticket sales...

The schools own the arenas, but I allowed for $750,000 for operational costs and playing for refs salaries & travel.

The tickets would be sold as packages, but even if they are just two day passes, this event makes tons of money. Especially for the CCHA defectors.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

An article from today's Pioneer Press

You can see that Lucia doesn't want to talk about UND, DU, CC and whomever else bolting the decimated WCHA.

The best thing the mid-major rebels could do is publicly announce that if the BTHC forms, they're leaving as well. That lays the cards out in the open and forces Alvarez and Lucia to deal with the smaller Minnesota schools.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I have a feeling the CCHA will fight this. Tom Anastos will fight till the end to keep his cash cows, especially when Detroit is only an eight hour drive from State College, PA. His dream will be to have all four Big10 schools face off for the CCHA Championship. He already has Michigan and Michigan State penciled in for the Joe every year (of which NMU seems to ruin his plans*).

If he ever quits, or puts his resume out for another NCAA or Pro Hockey position, then I'll worry about the CCHA.



* You'd think that a**hole would just suck it up and realize that NMU fans are stupid enough to shell out money to drive to Detroit to watch our team play the (formerly the Thursday afternoon game) Friday afternoon game when no one else cares to get to the Joe until the night game. We are pretty much the third best Michigan school behind Michigan and Michigan State (for traveling fans/alumni, and I'd even wager hockey talent wise).

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The best thing the mid-major rebels could do is publicly announce that if the BTHC forms, they're leaving as well. That lays the cards out in the open and forces Alvarez and Lucia to deal with the smaller Minnesota schools.

We don't even know if the 'mid-major rebels' even exist yet. Not one maintream media source has even mentioned anything other than status quo once the Big 10 team leave.

I'd say there is a pretty good chance they'll lie down and just take the big 10 ramrod into the posterior as a benefit of the 'unity of the WCHA' or the 'unity of the CCHA'.

I am hoping for some proactivity...

 

[NUProf]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You will have to excuse this DIII fan for blundering into your world, but it seems to me that there is a lot of the attitude that "the sky is falling" in here.

I had no idea that the state of DI hockey was so fragile that the addition of one little start up team from a conference that can't even count (Big 1?) will completely change the landscape of the sport.

In DIII we've had two new conferences form in the last few years, and have only lost one team (which failed to win or tie a game last year). I think things should sort themselves out. Furthermore in DIII we only get 4 at large bids to the NCAAs, and that will drop to 3 after the newest conference gets it autobid.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

There's all this talk of the small schools surviving w/o b11 teams, which leads me to this question: Does a team that didn't make the CCHA Super 6 get a cut of the money generated there?

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I had no idea that the state of DI hockey was so fragile that the addition of one little start up team from a conference that can't even count (Big 1?) will completely change the landscape of the sport.

When that one little startup is Penn State, and that little startup causes a new conference startup that will, in turn, decimate the two existing western conferences by removing their conference tourney revenue, taking away their primary fanbases, hurting their TV visibility and recruiting and relegating many proud hockey programs to mid-major status almost overnight, I think that addition would qualify as landscape-changing.

D-I hockey is fragile. There are only 58 schools, and perhaps 20-25 that fund their programs to be competitive at a national level. One addition can and will make a big difference to college hockey as we know it.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You will have to excuse this DIII fan for blundering into your world, but it seems to me that there is a lot of the attitude that "the sky is falling" in here.

Ice Hockey is a multimillion sport at the top of the Division I scrapheap. Coaches make $300,000+, scholarships are worth $160,000 and each home game can bring in a more than $300,000.

Is Hakstol or Gwozdecky worth $200,000+ to coach in a watered down WCHA? Do they need $100,000 assistants?

There is a lot of money at stake.

 

[moose97]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

If this Big Ten thing does happen, I'm thinking that they would still want the "Alaska" exemption for playing up here. That way each Big Ten school would get two additional home games. That is why the current CCHA cluster has us (Nanooks) with the three Big Ten teams.

The Alaska exemption is basically worthless when it comes to OOC games, though*, so, unless the BTHC invites one of UAA or UA_ (and I don't see a snowballs chance at that), it's a moot point.


* Think about it, right now, you're a HEA team looking at traveling to play a weekend series at UAA. You have 7 OOC games to schedule every year. Since you get the exemption traveling to Alaska, you still only get 7 OOC games (plus the 2 at UAA), so you don't really gain anything. Plus, UAA isn't likely to extend travel costs to cover that HEA team's travel. Why bother?

Now, if an Alaska team is in your conference (like the WCHA or CCHA), then you get the same # of conference games, no matter if you go to Alaska or not. The difference is in the # of OOC games you can schedule (6 or 8), and many of those extra 2 games end up at home.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

There's all this talk of the small schools surviving w/o b11 teams, which leads me to this question: Does a team that didn't make the CCHA Super 6 get a cut of the money generated there?

The CCHA does not operate like the WCHA. There is no "participation" checks written to teams that partake in the CCHA Championship, or miss it.

The CCHA sets the pricing for playoff home games on campus sites, and that money goes to the CCHA. The CCHA keeps the gate fees from JLA.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I'd say there is a pretty good chance they'll lie down and just take the big 10 ramrod into the posterior as a benefit of the 'unity of the WCHA' or the 'unity of the CCHA'.

I am hoping for some proactivity...

Not when they sit down with their calculators and figure out how much this is going to cost them.

Hockey is the only sport at DU that makes money and from what I've been told it creates almost $1 million in extra revenue that helps fund the non-revenue sports

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Ice Hockey is a multimillion sport at the top of the Division I scrapheap. Coaches make $300,000+, scholarships are worth $160,000 and each home game can bring in a more than $300,000.

Is Hakstol or Gwozdecky worth $200,000+ to coach in a watered down WCHA? Do they need $100,000 assistants?

There is a lot of money at stake.

Must be nice to be able to throw around money like that. I wish the CCHA could be like that... Imagine what a Walt Kyle could do with that much invested in the program.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Not when they sit down with their calculators and figure out how much this is going to cost them.

I hope you are right. We are now entering into the next phase of stratification in college hockey, and if the Big 10 forms as a separate conference, the next tier needs be proactive.

 

[moose97]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

There's all this talk of the small schools surviving w/o b11 teams, which leads me to this question: Does a team that didn't make the CCHA Super 6 get a cut of the money generated there?

Wait, what? Money is made at this debacle:

From what fans? The ones dressed as empty seats?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The CCHA does not operate like the WCHA. There is no "participation" checks written to teams that partake in the CCHA Championship, or miss it.

The CCHA sets the pricing for playoff home games on campus sites, and that money goes to the CCHA. The CCHA keeps the gate fees from JLA.

Must be nice to be able to throw around money like that. I wish the CCHA could be like that... Imagine what a Walt Kyle could do with that much invested in the program.

I think these 2 posts might be related.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Must be nice to be able to throw around money like that. I wish the CCHA could be like that... Imagine what a Walt Kyle could do with that much invested in the program.

The coaches salary investments are tiny compared to the rink boom that the WCHA schools spent to keep up with the Wisconsins and Minnesotas.

DU fills it's rink becuase casual Denver people find it credible to buy season tickets where DU is in a league with two Big 10 powers. In other words, they tolerate the Mankatos and St. Clouds because they know Wisconsin or Minnesota is coming. If those two B-10 programs leave, DU season ticket sales will drop 15-20% right off the bat. You can't charge $30 per seat to see Mankato and Bemidji in this competitive market without the promise of the the Big 10 teams.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Wait, what? Money is made at this debacle:

From what fans? The ones dressed as empty seats?

From being there, it was actually pretty well packed until the end of the game. By the time the Mason Cup gets presented, a good portion of the arena cleared out. I think it has to do with most all the parking garages in the area requiring that they be emptied out by 11pm.

Michigan represents well at JLA during the Championship game (been to the last two). But their fans come in late (early first period) and they start to leave with six minutes to go in the game.

*edit* The other thing is that some of the empty seats are from Miami and Ferris fans who didn't stick around. Part of the downside to selling "all-day" passes is that you will have empty seats for the final game.
http://www.uscho.com/box/?date=20100320&vis=um&home=nmu&gender=m
17063 was the recorded attendance. JLA has a seating capacity of just over 20,000.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Take the city of St. Paul as one example.

The Final 5 may no longer be viable. The XCEL is probably donated to the WCHA, but the hotels lose out (4 or 5 teams come to town plus the traveling fans), the bars lose out, restaurants lose out, the city and state lose ticket tax revenue.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I hope you are right. We are now entering into the next phase of stratification in college hockey, and if the Big 10 forms as a separate conference, the next tier needs be proactive.

Which will kill off the rest of the teams. This scenario is what will lead to 4-5 teams folding, with a very good possibility of multiple former national champions being in that group.