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Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

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Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Just because people jumped the gun on the Duke case doesnt mean every time something is reported the story is wrong...just saying. Not to mention, we arent the media we are allowed to form opinions (whch both sides do based on bias) and then change them as more facts come out. It is called thinking...

(not expressing an opinion on the current ****ing match between Brent and Priceless)
 
walrus said:
Got to love when board moderators are the biggest trolls on the board. Way to pick them USCHO
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Good job outta you. You managed to take the focus off the police who tackled and cuffed a 14 year old girl and shift it to me. That's well done. Don't like the message so attack the messenger.

I'll stop talking about this now because I realize there is no problem. There are no bad cops and every cop is color blind. It's just white guilt.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Handyman said:
Just because people jumped the gun on the Duke case doesnt mean every time something is reported the story is wrong...just saying. Not to mention, we arent the media we are allowed to form opinions (whch both sides do based on bias) and then change them as more facts come out. It is called thinking...

(not expressing an opinion on the current ****ing match between Brent and Priceless)
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I'm sorry, but I get a little riled when I'm called out, using bullsh* tactics and snippets of what I actually said.

At the time of the original post in question, I said the ONE CLE cop should be punished, not having any additional information about the story. Now that there is more info, I agree that more CLE cops should be punished.

But, I guess I'm just a honky with some guilt.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Brenthoven said:
I'm sorry, but I get a little riled when I'm called out, using bullsh* tactics and snippets of what I actually said.

At the time of the original post in question, I said the ONE CLE cop should be punished, not having any additional information about the story. Now that there is more info, I agree that more CLE cops should be punished.

But, I guess I'm just a honky with some guilt.
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And you see, despite the fact that I literally posted I wasnt commenting on you and Priceless you ignored what I said and made it about you. That is the problem with debate in modern society (especially on the web) everyone takes everything as an affront to them even when it isnt. Just because I post something that doesnt condemn Priceless doesnt mean I am agreeing with his attack on you.

My point was the stupid "Duke Lacrosse" meme is way overused. Yes most people were ultimately wrong about it but that doesnt mean that everyone who forms an opinion right away is automatically wrong by doing so. We are humans we will have inherent biases. (for example you are biased towards cops and cruddy Yooper Hockey squads, dx is biased towards charts and graphs and trix is biased towards worthless stats and terrible analogies :D ) As more facts come out you can change your opinion of a situation. That is thinking and learning.

I equate how people act these days to flopping in sports. Nowadays instead of actually debating (playing harder) everyone just takes the easy way out and shouts louder and gets personal. (takes the fall to draw a penalty) It is all lowest common denominator Faux News/MSNBC bs. All crap and no substance.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Handyman said:
My point was the stupid "Duke Lacrosse" meme is way overused.
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Funny thing being, if it wasn't a bunch of rich white kids whose parents could afford a good legal team, we wouldn't be referring to that case in the light we currently do.

The Sicatoka said:
French Police kill black man!

How do I scream "Ferguson!" in French?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/twin-hostage-dramas-grip-france/ar-AA7XeIh?ocid=mailsignout

Oh, wait, is this shooting acceptable because ... no, he was black, never acceptable. Nevermind. :rolleyes:
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This post brought to you by the Grand Forks education system.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
Let's find out if the training makes a difference.

Hey SteveP...as someone who has gone through the training, how would you have handled the situations in the video?
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Brenthoven said:
*I* can even answer this, from a person who's had multiple family members in the force. It does matter. However, most people don't really get what "split-second" decision means in that line of work. Sometimes, it's really you or him. Or you have to diffuse the situation RIGHT NOW. Or, you know, you're dead. In the CLE case...horrible decisions. In many other situations...well, best of luck. Hope someone's looking out for you. You never know. And that's the key. You NEVER know.

I still hear people say "why doesn't the officer shoot the gun out of the person's hand?" Um....no. That is not what they are trained to do. You shoot at the largest mass-point, which is the torso. Or, you use appropriate force to negate the threat, until the threat is gone. Period.
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It's encouraging to see the Reverend's opinion of split-second decision making changed after his "training" experience. One thing that I did notice is that he was only armed with a handgun....no pepper spray or baton that I would be carrying on patrol. Those would be my first options before using deadly force. And Brent is right -- cops are trained to shoot "center mass". Shooting the gun out of the hand is so Hollywood. :mad:

I had a similar situation to the first scenario early in my career -- a guy wandering around Yorkville Av. on a Sunday afternoon caught my attention. Yorkville is a very trendy area in downtown Toronto and his appearance and actions were very out of place. I called for backup, got out and tried to interact with him. He had one hand in his coat pocket and wouldn't take it out when I ordered him to do so. Long story short, we managed to subdue him without a shot fired. He was holding a pack of cigs in his pocket and wanted suicide by cop. Probably the closest I came to pulling the trigger in 21 years.

In the third scenario, the Rev has limited control of the subject, but with the gun still in his hand and not in his holster he's restricted to how and what he can do to gain full control over the subject. Doubly difficult given the guy is a moose. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Handyman said:
And you see, despite the fact that I literally posted I wasnt commenting on you and Priceless you ignored what I said and made it about you. That is the problem with debate in modern society (especially on the web) everyone takes everything as an affront to them even when it isnt. Just because I post something that doesnt condemn Priceless doesnt mean I am agreeing with his attack on you.

My point was the stupid "Duke Lacrosse" meme is way overused. Yes most people were ultimately wrong about it but that doesnt mean that everyone who forms an opinion right away is automatically wrong by doing so. We are humans we will have inherent biases. (for example you are biased towards cops and cruddy Yooper Hockey squads, dx is biased towards charts and graphs and trix is biased towards worthless stats and terrible analogies :D ) As more facts come out you can change your opinion of a situation. That is thinking and learning.

I equate how people act these days to flopping in sports. Nowadays instead of actually debating (playing harder) everyone just takes the easy way out and shouts louder and gets personal. (takes the fall to draw a penalty) It is all lowest common denominator Faux News/MSNBC bs. All crap and no substance.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was agreeing with you about forming an opinion, and possibly changing the opinion as more information comes to light. :)
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

SteveP said:
It's encouraging to see the Reverend's opinion of split-second decision making changed after his "training" experience. One thing that I did notice is that he was only armed with a handgun....no pepper spray or baton that I would be carrying on patrol. Those would be my first options before using deadly force. And Brent is right -- cops are trained to shoot "center mass". Shooting the gun out of the hand is so Hollywood. :mad:

I had a similar situation to the first scenario early in my career -- a guy wandering around Yorkville Av. on a Sunday afternoon caught my attention. Yorkville is a very trendy area in downtown Toronto and his appearance and actions were very out of place. I called for backup, got out and tried to interact with him. He had one hand in his coat pocket and wouldn't take it out when I ordered him to do so. Long story short, we managed to subdue him without a shot fired. He was holding a pack of cigs in his pocket and wanted suicide by cop. Probably the closest I came to pulling the trigger in 21 years.

In the third scenario, the Rev has limited control of the subject, but with the gun still in his hand and not in his holster he's restricted to how and what he can do to gain full control over the subject. Doubly difficult given the guy is a moose. :rolleyes:
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That's why I posted the link. Many don't realize what officers have to go through: how quickly you have to make decisions, etc. There isn't time to speculate. Training basically tries to alter your instincts, and respond in the appropriate fashion. Things happen that quick.
 
Brenthoven said:
That's why I posted the link. Many don't realize what officers have to go through: how quickly you have to make decisions, etc. There isn't time to speculate. Training basically tries to alter your instincts, and respond in the appropriate fashion. Things happen that quick.
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Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

unofan said:
Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
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Most things. Key words. :)

Half the reason cop incidents are stories is because they don't happen that often. Same with plane crashes, massive earthquakes, etc. To put those in perspective, how often do you hear a big national news report on a car crash? ;)
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

unofan said:
Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
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Depending upon the job and location sure it's probably mostly not life threatening - that says nothing of those moments when their life is on the line. A good friend of mine from grade school up started as a cop in Deephaven where it wasn't uncommon to shake a cat from a tree. He moved to the MPD and found himself working near Lake and 35W and said he had to draw his gun at least once a week.

btw it's funny that the little snot back then is now a big shot in the MPD Homicide unit whom I often see quoted in news reports and when I could watch local news being interviewed/commenting on cases.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

Slap Shot said:
Depending upon the job and location sure it's probably mostly not life threatening - that says nothing of those moments when their life is on the line. A good friend of mine from grade school up started as a cop in Deephaven where it wasn't uncommon to shake a cat from a tree. He moved to the MPD and found himself working near Lake and 35W and said he had to draw his gun at least once a week.

btw it's funny that the little snot back then is now a big shot in the MPD Homicide unit whom I often see quoted in news reports and when I could watch local news being interviewed/commenting on cases.
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35W and Lake? Ewwww. Way back in the day my dad worked at the Sears tower just off of Chicago/Lake, and Friday nights he worked late. NOT a good area at all.
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

I used to live over there...like 3 blocks from Chicago-Lake Liquor. I was not a fan...
 
Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

unofan said:
Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
Click to expand...

The old cop adage is police work is 99% sheer boredom and 1% sheer terror.

Slappy--- the story of your "little snot" grade school buddy brought back a memory. I went to the open house of our high school's 75th anniversary while on duty. Rolled up to the front door on the Harley, took off the helmet and sunglasses and watched the jaws dropping. Not the scrawny beanpole that most of them remembered. :cool:
 
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Brenthoven said:
Most things. Key words. :)
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Yeah, which is why saying they're trained to be ready for anything is, pardon the pun, a cop out. Their training should not make them so itchy that they shoot first and ask questions later (Cleveland), or escalate a situation that had no reason to be violent (Garner).

If their excuse is "that's what I was trained to do" then maybe we need to seriously consider overhauling their training.
 
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