Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

[MattS]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

That is true. And I admitted that off the top.

But what I still don't understand, is what "good" comes from giving the football team the death penalty?

The victims -- the number 1 clear-cut top of the list -- should get the maximum "benefit" of anything that happens. How does not playing 12 to 24 football games help them, in any way, shape, or form? If anything I would argue that hurts them more, due to the amount of revenue that could be generated for donations to anti-abuse charities. Which is exactly what a lot of students and alums are pushing for if the team continues to play.

Everyone who is calling for the death penalty says that "the culture needs to be changed". I think it is safe to say the culture HAS changed. Quickly. The Board of Trustees is finally doing its job and Joe is dead. The patron saint has fallen from grace, much to the misguided joy of a LOT of Penn State haters.

Just curious why you think "something good" needs to come from the Penn St. football program getting the death penalty? Why do they deserve to be given any lenience? The University deserves punishment. As far as I am concerned Penn St. didn't show any concern for anyone except themselves so they deserve everything they get from the Courts, NCAA, and the general horrible ill will towards them.

I am pretty sure that the loss of football revenue for a 3 - 5 year period will cement the cultural change and, if for some reason there needs to be, serve as an example for other programs with the similar lack of oversight. As for money to anit-abuse charities coming from football revenue, there is no reason that money can't come from when the football team starts back up. I am pretty sure Penn St. endowment should be able to make a nice starting contribution.

How you or anyone else can defend that program or university in even the slightest way is beyond me. Penn St. and their supporters should shut up, take whatever punishment the NCAA deems prudent, thank whatever deity they believe in that the atrocities have stopped, and be grateful that those atrocities didn't happen to them or their children.

With all that being said, I do believe that all current football players be allowed to transfer immediately without sitting out or loosing any eligibility.

As for the hockey program. I think the loss of revenue from football will in general hurt all sports as Penn St. And wow, I certainly wouldn't want to be at some visiting venues with some drunken rowdies. It might get ugly.

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

You keep talking about how the "culture" needs to change.

May I ask what would have to happen in order to demonstrate to your complete satisfaction that the "culture" has changed?

For the record, I'm not a Penn State alumnus. My primary interest in Penn State athletics is the hope that some day I will be able to go up to State College and watch my alma mater's hockey team beat the stuffing out of the Nittany Lions.

But I do live in central Pennsylvania, which is undeniably Penn State country.

If you don't live in this area, I can tell you that for months on end now, the media have been hammering it into us how awful this whole thing was. Day after day, front-page articles are printed in the paper, with multi-page follow-ups inside, to remind us that Jerry Sandusky is the most reprehensible sort of human being imaginable, and that anyone who would have allowed this sort of thing to go on without reporting it to the police is hardly any less reprehensible. Day after day, at least five and often ten or more minutes of each 30-minute TV newscast are devoted to reminding us about the same things.

If that hasn't been enough to convince every single Penn State employee that they must never allow such a thing to happen again, I don't think the cancellation of a football season would be enough, either.

For me personally, for starters, I'd want to see the results of the investigation of Clery Act violations, I'd want to see PSU's Clery Act policy finalized and applied campus wide (their current draft policy excluded athletics department), and I'd want to see the school have training setup for all employees on Clery Act compliance. I'd want some feeling that school was serious about this and not only have a draft policy some 21-22 years after the Act was enacted.

If you're not aware, the Clery Act requires schools to report all campus crimes & incidents and PSU was found to not be in compliance. As a parent, feeling that your child is going to a campus where he/she is going to be safe is very important, and the fact that PSU fell short on reporting and the documented cases where employees failed to report such serious offenses makes for a lot of uncertainty/doubt - what else has gone on that hasn't been reported?

 

[KnowItAll]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

That is true. And I admitted that off the top.

But what I still don't understand, is what "good" comes from giving the football team the death penalty?

What I hear is just a lot of emotionally-charged rhetoric that the University needs to be knocked down a peg. Do people honestly think we haven't been already?

Again, take the emotion out, and explain to me what "good" comes from giving the football team the death penalty? I am admittedly biased in this situation but I am sincerely trying to be logical in my argument in why not to do it.

maybe just one kid somewhere will not be molested while at football or hockey or summer camp by a university employee.

maybe a university somewhere will fire and have prosecuted a pervert after his first offense, thereby prevening the molestation of many more kids

maybe just one other university somewhere will refuse to hire just one superb coach because the university was pretty sure that there were skeletons in that guy's closet.

and maybe, just maybe it might be good for a university to understand that football is a game, and it should not be one of the top 100 reasons for a university to exist.... perhaps changing the mentality of the sheep in this country to believe that most student athletes are either one or the other might benefit society

maybe the state of pennsylvania will benefit by losing such a stupid false god...

but I am guessing that you and I do not think the same at all, so I am guessing that i just wasted a lot of key strokes, and lots and lots of poor innocent electrons will have been sacrificed for no reason

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

With all that being said, I do believe that all current football players be allowed to transfer immediately without sitting out or loosing any eligibility.

That sounds nice on paper, and they should be allowed to do so. But the reality is that at this point schools are going to be pretty well maxed out on rosters/scholarships for the upcoming year, meaning that only a very few, top talent, players are going to able to find a spot for this upcoming season. For the large majority there won't be spots for them unless they go as walk-ons, so they still hurt by ths whole mess.

 

[KnowItAll]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Clery Act requires schools to report all campus crimes & incidents and ?

sorry, that is a bunch of BS and the Clery Act is a facade.
there is no need to report crimes when the campus police and the hockey/football coach/ president all get together and bribe the victim not to press charges... lots of warnings about what the case will do to her reputation and future and lots andlots of CASH thrown at the victim if she decides on her own not to go forward...
crimes don't go down, crime statistics do... and the Clery act deals only with crime statistics.

 

[KnowItAll]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

That sounds nice on paper, and they should be allowed to do so. But the reality is that at this point schools are going to be pretty well maxed out on rosters/scholarships for the upcoming year, meaning that only a very few, top talent, players are going to able to find a spot for this upcoming season. For the large majority there won't be spots for them unless they go as walk-ons, so they still hurt by ths whole mess.

I cannot imagine three of them honestly believed that they were walking into a program that was 100% honorable...they knew exactly how many classes they had to actaully attend and how many papers they had to write themselves and how many test and quiz scores are raised after a call from an assistant coach...

none of them will really be surprised that there might be repercussions... their only surprise will be that they do not actually walk on water

 

[MattS]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

That sounds nice on paper, and they should be allowed to do so. But the reality is that at this point schools are going to be pretty well maxed out on rosters/scholarships for the upcoming year, meaning that only a very few, top talent, players are going to able to find a spot for this upcoming season. For the large majority there won't be spots for them unless they go as walk-ons, so they still hurt by ths whole mess.

Yeah, you're right, but there isn't much else that can be reasonably done for them. And the vast majority of them should have chose Penn St. because of the education and not the football. Yeah, I know that probably isn't true but this can be a life lesson for the non-NFL caliber player. Now if the football team as is deserved gets shut down for several years, then any player who chooses to stay at Penn St. should be able to have they scholarship honored by Penn St.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

no, you want blood and since it won't be exacted upon those who were participants you feel its necessary to exact it upon something visible and something scarring in order to serve as a memorial of those who don't do what is proper.

At least admit that. it has nothing to do with the people themselves, the program itself, etc. You want to hold these guys as an example and you want to hold them out in order so that you feel like proper justice and revenge has been meted out. You feel that there is an insufficient culpability and somehow the whole group is responsible.

There's a point where you get beyond holding the structures responsible and you get into collective punishment. I get the feeling you want their society to be punished.

So....you're saying that I want Penn St. punished? I thought I had been pretty clear on the point from the beginning.

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Yeah, you're right, but there isn't much else that can be reasonably done for them. And the vast majority of them should have chose Penn St. because of the education and not the football. Yeah, I know that probably isn't true but this can be a life lesson for the non-NFL caliber player. Now if the football team as is deserved gets shut down for several years, then any player who chooses to stay at Penn St. should be able to have they scholarship honored by Penn St.

Agree.

 

[jjmc85]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

That sounds nice on paper, and they should be allowed to do so. But the reality is that at this point schools are going to be pretty well maxed out on rosters/scholarships for the upcoming year, meaning that only a very few, top talent, players are going to able to find a spot for this upcoming season. For the large majority there won't be spots for them unless they go as walk-ons, so they still hurt by ths whole mess.

No one wants to punish the student athletes. For those who can't find scholarships for this season, let them stay at Penn State for the year under scholarship, allow them to still practice, allow them to transfer for next year at no penalty, and add an extra year of eligibility for them to make up for this season.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

No one wants to punish the student athletes. For those who can't find scholarships for this season, let them stay at Penn State for the year under scholarship, allow them to still practice, allow them to transfer for next year at no penalty, and add an extra year of eligibility for them to make up for this season.

Yep. That works for me.

 

[Patronick]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

You keep talking about how the "culture" needs to change.

May I ask what would have to happen in order to demonstrate to your complete satisfaction that the "culture" has changed?

For the record, I'm not a Penn State alumnus. My primary interest in Penn State athletics is the hope that some day I will be able to go up to State College and watch my alma mater's hockey team beat the stuffing out of the Nittany Lions.

But I do live in central Pennsylvania, which is undeniably Penn State country.

If you don't live in this area, I can tell you that for months on end now, the media have been hammering it into us how awful this whole thing was. Day after day, front-page articles are printed in the paper, with multi-page follow-ups inside, to remind us that Jerry Sandusky is the most reprehensible sort of human being imaginable, and that anyone who would have allowed this sort of thing to go on without reporting it to the police is hardly any less reprehensible. Day after day, at least five and often ten or more minutes of each 30-minute TV newscast are devoted to reminding us about the same things.

If that hasn't been enough to convince every single Penn State employee that they must never allow such a thing to happen again, I don't think the cancellation of a football season would be enough, either.

The culture at Penn State is the reason a graduate assistant and two janitors who walked in on the rape of a child either said nothing or simply told their superiors, instead of stopping the sex crime and calling police.

The culture at Penn State is the reason Vicky Triponey, former head of student affairs at the University, resigned from her post - because she dared take on Joe Paterno in matters of football player discipline.

The culture of Penn State is the reason there are students guarding the statue of Joe Paterno right now. It's the reason hundreds of nasty comments (and a few death threats) have been thrown at those who have suggested renaming the tent city that springs up for football games "Paternoville".

How will we know when it's changed? Hard to say. But in order for that to have a shot at happening, they have to cut off the head of this gnarling beast that fostered this culture: the football program.

In some ways, the NCAA could do more to cripple the Penn State football team for the next couple of decades without the death penalty. For example, they could cut scholarships by 2/3 for any number of years, a five year+ ban on any post-season play, a five year+ ban for nationally televised games, restrict their recruiting window, offer all current players a free transfer after this season and/or make them donate a % of revenue from each game to a children's abuse victim charity (the lawsuits that are forthcoming will be paid via insurance or the Penn State coffers).

But that still allows the football team to play. It still gives these Paterno sympathizers a rallying point; a backs against the wall, us vs. the world, We Are Penn State mantra to belt from their lungs as they watch their neutered Lions play.

If you cacel the program for two years, Beaver stadium stays quiet. The players go to other schools. No tent city. No tailgating. Nothing. For two years, this program doesn't exist. For the next two decades, they're a shell of their former selves. THAT'S how you change the culture at this school. THAT'S why you need the death penalty.

 

[Dirty Bottles]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

But that still allows the football team to play. It still gives these Paterno sympathizers a rallying point; a backs against the wall, us vs. the world, We Are Penn State mantra to belt from their lungs as they watch their neutered Lions play.

If you cacel the program for two years, Beaver stadium stays quiet. The players go to other schools. No tent city. No tailgating. Nothing. For two years, this program doesn't exist. For the next two decades, they're a shell of their former selves. THAT'S how you change the culture at this school. THAT'S why you need the death penalty.

Bravo! Well said.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

So....you're saying that I want Penn St. punished? I thought I had been pretty clear on the point from the beginning.

No, you've been very subtle about it...

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

The culture at Penn State is the reason a graduate assistant and two janitors who walked in on the rape of a child either said nothing or simply told their superiors, instead of stopping the sex crime and calling police.

The culture at Penn State is the reason Vicky Triponey, former head of student affairs at the University, resigned from her post - because she dared take on Joe Paterno in matters of football player discipline.

The culture of Penn State is the reason there are students guarding the statue of Joe Paterno right now. It's the reason hundreds of nasty comments (and a few death threats) have been thrown at those who have suggested renaming the tent city that springs up for football games "Paternoville".

You (and everyone else) bring up a lot of good points. Which I appreciate. This is an emotionally charged issue, and it is hard to separate what the heart thinks is right from what the head thinks is right.

That said, I'm am going to make a few final counter-points and call it quits on this thread, simply because I know my 'coping by denial' is running its course. None of you deserve hearing from me once I move on to anger.

Anyway... Triponey was/is a whackjob. This is a woman who tried to get the student paper shutdown over an editorial it ran on her and some of her own thuglike tactics. She was calling the kettle black when she called out Joe.

Paternoville is no more. The name "Nittanyville" was voted into existence just yesterday. Life on campus IS moving forward. It may be my denial talking, but I think "the culture" died with the benevolent dictator that ruled over it.

I will say, that I will accept whatever the NCAA does. They have to do something just due to public pressure. I just don't know if it will be the full-on death penalty. I just keep seeing it as punishing the entire athletic department (football pays the bills) for the sins of the father. I liken it to Romney winning the election then getting impeached for Fast & Furious. It's just seems too "after the fact"...?

I think it plays out one of two ways:

A: 2012 is played with a post-season ban, 2013 is cancelled, 2014 is played with a post-season ban. Scholarships are cut back somehow or another.

B: A long period (5 years?) with a post-season ban and drastic scholarship cuts.

We shall see.

 

[giwan]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

You (and everyone else) bring up a lot of good points. Which I appreciate. This is an emotionally charged issue, and it is hard to separate what the heart thinks is right from what the head thinks is right.That said, I'm am going to make a few final counter-points and call it quits on this thread, simply because I know my 'coping by denial' is running its course. None of you deserve hearing from me once I move on to anger.Anyway... Triponey was/is a whackjob. This is a woman who tried to get the student paper shutdown over an editorial it ran on her and some of her own thuglike tactics. She was calling the kettle black when she called out Joe.Paternoville is no more. The name "Nittanyville" was voted into existence just yesterday. Life on campus IS moving forward. It may be my denial talking, but I think "the culture" died with the benevolent dictator that ruled over it. I will say, that I will accept whatever the NCAA does. They have to do something just due to public pressure. I just don't know if it will be the full-on death penalty. I just keep seeing it as punishing the entire athletic department (football pays the bills) for the sins of the father. I liken it to Romney winning the election then getting impeached for Fast & Furious. It's just seems too "after the fact"...?
I think it plays out one of two ways:A: 2012 is played with a post-season ban, 2013 is cancelled, 2014 is played with a post-season ban. Scholarships are cut back somehow or another.B: A long period (5 years?) with a post-season ban and drastic scholarship cuts.We shall see.

I have no dog in this fight except decency.

I think the NCAA should truly stay out of this. This is a criminal matter, that catch-all lack of institutional control is just that a catch all. The NCAA has a difficult enough time dealing with tattoos, tweeting, and home loans.

Like all situations, there is always MORE to the story and it will most likely never be known. Unfortunately Paterno passed and it is easy to dump stuff on the dead happens all the time. Not saying people are but there were complaints about Paterno asking for use of the PSU plane, better box etc. If you believe that other high powered football coaches do not have such perks you are kidding yourself. The Freeh report was eye opening but his weasel wording (my term) allowed one to jump to conclusion making assumptions. Correct or not it is not known.

PSU without a doubt is at fault, as well as all that coddled them. PSU should fall on their sword and cancel this and maybe next season, contracts are meant to be broken. Those B1G schools should leave that date open as well as a reminder.

Will athletes pay unfairly, YES. This happens all the time and not just in sports, lifes not fair, ask one of those kids that Sandusky preyed on. Your company loses a contract or two and people lose jobs or do not get increases in pay. The contract loss may have nothing to do with them but it happens. Not fair but it is life. The athletes should be allowed to stay with tuition paid or allowed to freely move on. This will show they have some backbone and show they do stand for what Paterno at least preached. It will show that what happened is more important and needs to be remembered more then a game.

Should PSU pay more? More then the suits that are coming. YES! How? Lots of possible ways from tuition and board for victims, help for these underprivileged kids, yes something BUT this has to be more then a money issue. To often the rich and powerful are simply able to throw money at a problem and it goes away. This is not something that should go away.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

I thought the title of this thread was how the scandal would impact the hockey programs to be? I realize the emotionally charged nature of the discussion but how about staying on topic.

Right now, I'd like to know how Terry Pergola feels about his alma mater after giving a lot of money to start the programs and build a state of the art facility. Obviously, it is too late to do anything about the building and it makes no sense to punish the soon to play hockey programs. I actually think that with these new programs coming on line, Penn State has a great opportunity to cleanse itself by killing football for five years and throwing its weight behind its other athletic programs. They can make a statement about the type of university they want to be instead of the sewer they find themselves in at the moment. Actually 'sewer' is putting it mildly. My outrage over these crimes and the handling of such crimes from the President down to Paterno has gone far beyond the boiling point. I don't think Penn State as an institution should be referred to as a university. It is demeaning to other schools who would have taken action and done something to stop these heinous acts instead of shoving them under the rug.

Okay, I know, I let my post get emotional. I can't help it. I have kids in my life and I get ill with each new revelation.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

The NCAA was not organized to deal with serial pederasty or to punish member schools that condone and conceal serial pederasty. Criminal law is prepared to deal with this crime and all who ignored it. The remaining issue is the reputation of PSU and her sports programs, including college hockey. Those who demand the NCAA punish PSU expect an athletic organization to usurp 4,000 years of criminal law. Criminal law, not the NCAA, will punish the guilty. Only Penn State can restore her own reputation. I again suggest PSU look to the example of UVM men's hockey as a model for how to re-establish her reputation. Attempts to hold the NCAA accountable for the unspeakable crimes at PSU by claiming the NCAA is responsible for determining and enforcing PSU's punishment WILL have a deadly impact upon PSU and her infant hockey program.

 

[MUnRPI]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Nothing exists in a vacuum. It makes absolutely no sense to coin their football fanaticism as a "Penn State culture." The entire country supports college football to the point where it is the 2nd most popular sport behind the NFL.

"Life isn't fair" and innocent Penn State students and athletes will be punished. How are they more responsible for this incident than the media and college football fans in general? If you really want to "change the culture" then every program should get the death penalty.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Nothing exists in a vacuum. It makes absolutely no sense to coin their football fanaticism as a "Penn State culture." The entire country supports college football to the point where it is the 2nd most popular sport behind the NFL.

"Life isn't fair" and innocent Penn State students and athletes will be punished. How are they more responsible for this incident than the media and college football fans in general? If you really want to "change the culture" then every program should get the death penalty.

I think that rant ends with "We're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!"