Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

[J.D.]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

How does the above statements effect the hockey program?

Why would you ever quote osorojo???

The scandal should absolutely not affect PSU hockey.

I agree that it shouldn't but even if it's the slightest of impacts, I still think there will be one.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

THAT'S the kind of culture shock you need to get through to these people that what happened is one of the sickest, most depraved acts imaginable, and this is how you react.

The culture has already been shocked simply by the firing and death of JoePa.


Powers &8^]

 

[Patronick]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

I really hope you are right, but I think you are wrong. Has anyone backed out of their commitments? A quick scan of a Penn State board shows at least three have confirmed they are still committed.

For example.

Then there is also this.

I think you're underestimating how important the fact is that they are a Big 10 school. There is so much money in Penn State athletics, and unfortunately, money always wins. In a perfect world you would be right. This world is far from perfect.

Case in point: How long did it take Penn State to find a new Football coach?

Compare to how long it's taken UMass to find a new hockey coach.

Even as a Lowell fan, tell me that's not messed up.

I'm not surprised that players haven't immediately back out of their commitments. But this situation, especially the knowledge of just how much the University (and specifically the athletic department) knew is just coming out now. Do you think next year's class of players are going to weigh this as a factor when choosing where they want to commit to play? Absolutely.

Thought process of a 19 year old incoming freshman: "Hmmm, well I have offers from Penn State, Ohio State and Princeton. Maybe I should steer clear of the circus surrounding Penn State and not, ya know, play hockey at a school where the administration is so wrapped up in protecting one of their own that they allowed child rape to continue for years." The ramifications are going to be felt for years to come.

On the second part, apples and oranges. For one your comparing what (was once) one of the most storied programs in the history of college football with Amherst hockey. Change "UMass" to BC, or Minnesota or Michigan and ask if the coach would be so hard to find? Probably not.

 

[RSTuthill]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

The culture has already been shocked simply by the firing and death of JoePa.

It'll get another shock when the football program gets the death penalty for a couple years. Complete lack of institutional control right up through the trustees.

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Upfront... Penn State grad, 2001.

Will the University, Terry Pegula, or any other hockey backers fall off the bandwagon because of the Jerry Sandusky ordeal? NO.

Will a couple kids not accept Penn State scholarships offers because of this? The short-sighted ones, yes. This ordeal has no bearing whatsoever of the education any student-athlete will receive at Penn State. The school is still in the AAU, still a land-grant instution, still a major research institution, and will continue to be so. The only student-athletes to be affect will be playing football. Maybe.


As it stands, I don't have a strong feeling either way if/when the NCAA will act.

Emmert's letter to Rodney Erickson (the new PSU President) asked for a response date of December 9. The media throngs armed with pitchforks and torches calling for the Death Penalty will have to wait. Due to game contracts, TV contracts, and Lord-knows-what-else, that cannot possibly happen for the 2012 season. speaking purely logistically --looking at what the NCAA gave to SMU in the 80's, I honestly don't even know how you begin to do that now -- With every game broadcast on television, non-conference games scheduled 10 years in advance, BCS money/contracts, etc... where do you even start?

IMHO - They get a MAJOR scholarship reduction and a several-year (4 or 5?) bowl ban. Penn State will volunteer to donate millions from ticket proceeds to child welfare programs.

The best non-death penalty opinion I have read so far (and there aren't many) belongs to ESPN's Jay Bilas. His opinion should carry at least a little weight, considering he is an attorney. He makes a point that the NCAA comes in long-after-the-fact, and levies any sanctions/penaty on those who are tasked with cleaning up the mess, not those who created it. He wants the NCAA to go after Spanier, Curley, and Schultz directly. I would love to see that.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...caa-better-sanction-penn-state-administrators

Maybe I can't see through my blue and white colored glasses, but I don't understand how not playing football for a year makes up for the attrocities committed by Sandusky, and the cover-up perpetrated by four men, one of which is now deceased. They are solely responsible for this mess... they should be ones to pay.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Will a couple kids not accept Penn State scholarships offers because of this? The short-sighted ones, yes.

calling them short sighted would be your opinion, but based on this line alone...the answer is, yes, there will be an impact--even if only a slight one.

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Will a couple kids not accept Penn State scholarships offers because of this? The short-sighted ones, yes. This ordeal has no bearing whatsoever of the education any student-athlete will receive at Penn State. The school is still in the AAU, still a land-grant instution, still a major research institution, and will continue to be so. The only student-athletes to be affect will be playing football. Maybe..

The only short-sighted one in this case would be you. In situations like this - and since my son is a current DI hockey player I feel qualified to speak to a parent's concerns - it is, first and foremost, much more about the perceived student's safety and well being on a campus and with the entire campus staff than it is about the quality of education. As a parent, you are entrusting the welfare of your son/daughter to the school and coaching staff, and with something like this it is something that has to be seriously looked into - IMHO, a parent is failing their child not to. If the environment on the campus has been so ingrained for such a long time to NOT bring up/report bad things for fear of being fired, one has to ask the question - what else has been going on that hasn't be uncovered yet? Probably nothing significant, but if you're honest with yourself you would ask the same quesion if this happened at one of your rivals like Pitt, Notre Dame, another Big 10 school, right?

But like I said in my very first post in this thread - alot will depend on what other options a recruit has.

 

[Sterling Cooper]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Not so fast pedsters. This is the worst case of Lack of Institutional Control in university history. The SMU slush fund and free gold trans ams are horseplay in comparison. Now, you can debate whether the ncaa "death penalty" is applicable, but this statue seems clearly applicable.

A Fate Worse Than Death

So much of the debate over whether and how the NCAA could punish Penn State has focused on areas of the NCAA Manual like Bylaw 10.1, Bylaw 2, and Bylaw 19. But there?s another place Penn State might need to worry about should the NCAA decide to follow through on investigating the athletic department. It?s a bylaw that both clearly establishes the NCAA?s authority to discipline Penn State, while also allowing it the freedom to impose a wide range of sanctions, up to and including an NCAA penalty that is worse than the ?death penalty.?


At its most basic, the NCAA is a voluntary membership organization. To put it more bluntly, the NCAA is a club. As a club, it has the power to let in the types of organizations it likes. More importantly, it has the power to kick schools out of the club:


Bylaw 3.2.5 Loss of Active Membership
3.2.5.1 Termination or Suspension. The membership of any active member failing to maintain the academic or athletics standards required for such membership or failing to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be suspended, terminated, or otherwise disciplined by a vote of two-thirds of the delegates present and voting at an annual Convention.
Quote:
Bylaw 3.2.4.12 Standards. Active members agree to maintain high standards of personal honor, eligibility and fair play.
That statement can be parsed many ways, and the NCAA members could always fall back on reading ?with respect to NCAA rules? at the end of the bylaw. But combined with statements like Bylaw 2.4?s lofty claim that ethical conduct ?should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program,? it certainly establishes enough credibility for the NCAA membership to act.


Should the NCAA get involved, this is the best way. It sets a precedent in the way precedent should be set: by a super-majority of the entire association agreeing to move the organization in that direction. It does not require that the normal enforcement procedures be stretched to accommodate a scandal that goes far beyond NCAA rules. And it matches an unprecedented situation with an equally

The ncaa may not take the lead on this but when the AAU, the accrediting agencies, the federal department of education (22 years of ignoring Clery Act mandates) and possibly the CIC and Big Ten Presidents are all piling on, the ncaa may be put in a position where it can't bury it's head in the sand.

When some blogger says shut the program down, it's one thing. When Bob Costas is on Meet The Press saying, "shut it down," we're in uncharted waters.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Kevin Paul Dupont's article in Sunday's Boston Globe reports "more than $200 million have been streaming into school coffers since reports of the scandal broke tells us that there are still some Nittany Lion diehards who won't stop giving, no matter how heinous the acts or how atrociously the school's administrative hierarchy failed". I suspect most of that money will be used in settling lawsuits.

 

[giwan]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Kevin Paul Dupont's article in Sunday's Boston Globe reports "more than $200 million have been streaming into school coffers since reports of the scandal broke tells us that there are still some Nittany Lion diehards who won't stop giving, no matter how heinous the acts or how atrociously the school's administrative hierarchy failed". I suspect most of that money will be used in settling lawsuits.

I would think insurance is covering the lawsuits unless they are self insured.

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

The only short-sighted one in this case would be you. In situations like this - and since my son is a current DI hockey player I feel qualified to speak to a parent's concerns - it is, first and foremost, much more about the perceived student's safety and well being on a campus and with the entire campus staff than it is about the quality of education. As a parent, you are entrusting the welfare of your son/daughter to the school and coaching staff, and with something like this it is something that has to be seriously looked into - IMHO, a parent is failing their child not to. If the environment on the campus has been so ingrained for such a long time to NOT bring up/report bad things for fear of being fired, one has to ask the question - what else has been going on that hasn't be uncovered yet? Probably nothing significant, but if you're honest with yourself you would ask the same quesion if this happened at one of your rivals like Pitt, Notre Dame, another Big 10 school, right?

But like I said in my very first post in this thread - alot will depend on what other options a recruit has.

I see your point. I was looking at the non-athletic side (believe it or not), picturing a kid who's professional and athletic aspirations dovetail perfectly with what Penn State was (and I believe still is) all about. A solid, well-respected degree in his/her chosen field and top-level competition in the athletic realm.

I just don't want to see that prototype, perfect Penn Stater to-be not go to Dear Old State because of the sins of one man, and the secrecy of four more.

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

I see your point. I was looking at the non-athletic side (believe it or not), picturing a kid who's professional and athletic aspirations dovetail perfectly with what Penn State was (and I believe still is) all about. A solid, well-respected degree in his/her chosen field and top-level competition in the athletic realm.

I just don't want to see that prototype, perfect Penn Stater to-be not go to Dear Old State because of the sins of one man, and the secrecy of four more.

But you're still understating the issue. True, those are the 5 people who have been specifically named - but the bigger issue is the environment that existed where other school employees feared for their jobs if they said anything. That environment will not go away overnight, as it will take time for those same employees to trust that they can say something without fear of retribution. I would not want my child on that campus for the next couple years until the school had proven that the culture had changed.

And I hate to bust your bubble, but there are plenty of schools that offer " A solid, well-respected degree in his/her chosen field and top-level competition in the athletic realm" without the shadow of this hanging over it.

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

But you're still understating the issue. True, those are the 5 people who have been specifically named - but the bigger issue is the environment that existed where other school employees feared for their jobs if they said anything. That environment will not go away overnight, as it will take time for those same employees to trust that they can say something without fear of retribution. I would not want my child on that campus for the next couple years until the school had proven that the culture had changed.

And I hate to bust your bubble, but there are plenty of schools that offer " A solid, well-respected degree in his/her chosen field and top-level competition in the athletic realm" without the shadow of this hanging over it.

...Not in the world I grew up in. And that's the problem I - and many other Penn Staters - have to deal with. We weren't like other schools - we did things the right way; we didn't cheat; we believed in JoePa's 'Success with Honor' mantra.

Our entire world was shattered in one fail swoop. We are still picking up the pieces, and it appears we will be for a long time to come.

I was raised in a Catholic household where the "three persons in one God" meant God, Mario Lemieux, and Joe Paterno. I spent my Saturday afternoons listening to my grandmother yell at her TV saying "Give 'em hell Joe!"

It's hard to accept. All of it. We have become just like everyone else. It's a hard to accept that idea when you think you are a part of Chamelot, only to find out that you're in Rome, and it's already burning.

Or the folks at Black Shoe Diaries do a more poetic job than I:

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...-rick-reilly-joe-paterno-penn-state#storyjump

 

[4four4]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Since, the program is brand new we probablly will not see the impact of this scandal. IMO, they can only go one way and that is up. We are not talking about a perenial power here.

 

[fangers]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

...Not in the world I grew up in. And that's the problem I - and many other Penn Staters - have to deal with. We weren't like other schools - we did things the right way; we didn't cheat; we believed in JoePa's 'Success with Honor' mantra.

Our entire world was shattered in one fail swoop. We are still picking up the pieces, and it appears we will be for a long time to come.

I was raised in a Catholic household where the "three persons in one God" meant God, Mario Lemieux, and Joe Paterno. I spent my Saturday afternoons listening to my grandmother yell at her TV saying "Give 'em hell Joe!"

It's hard to accept. All of it. We have become just like everyone else. It's a hard to accept that idea when you think you are a part of Chamelot, only to find out that you're in Rome, and it's already burning.

Or the folks at Black Shoe Diaries do a more poetic job than I:

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...-rick-reilly-joe-paterno-penn-state#storyjump

And it sucks for all the fans, alumni & current students that this situation exists. But, to a degree, it was all this hero worship/putting on a pedastal/sainthood culture that enabled this type of climate to exist in the first place.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

I hope those Penn State hockey players have some thick skin. The biggest hockey related impact is likely going to be the "inventiveness" of the assorted student sections they play in front of.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

I hope those Penn State hockey players have some thick skin. The biggest hockey related impact is likely going to be the "inventiveness" of the assorted student sections they play in front of.

I don't mind the Sioux jingles and jabs but i'm not sure I can get behind (no pun intended) fans mocking rape especially when the wounds for the victims are so fresh, not cool at all.

 

[RSTuthill]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

Maybe I can't see through my blue and white colored glasses, but I don't understand how not playing football for a year makes up for the attrocities committed by Sandusky, and the cover-up perpetrated by four men, one of which is now deceased.

You still do not get it, do you? The reason there was a cover-up and the atrocities were allowed to continue is that the program grew too big to control. The decision was made to protrect the program rather than the kids.

That is a COMPLETE lack of institutional control and skewed values for which only the death penalty can remedy that culture. Contracts all have Force Majeur clauses in them. Cancelling a season will not be a problem. After no football for a year, and only a half-schedule of away games for the next year, people in the Happy Valley will start to get it.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

No. The people responsible for this debacle are all gone, including the 2 common denominators to football and hockey, the AD and Pres., so why would this effect hockey? I think people are way over-blowing the situation as it relates to the University as a whole. There's no reason to penalize any of the current FB players, other student athletes or students for the transgressions of the enablers.

 

[RSTuthill]

Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?

No. The people responsible for this debacle are all gone, including the 2 common denominators to football and hockey, the AD and Pres., so why would this effect hockey? I think people are way over-blowing the situation as it relates to the University as a whole. There's no reason to penalize any of the current FB players, other student athletes or students for the transgressions of the enablers.

The people are gone. The culture remains.