UMDBulldogHockeyIsKing
Customized for Her Pleasure
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
Feds send you a check when you die.
Feds send you a check when you die.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
- Thread starter Rover
- Start date
leswp1
New member
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
My first thought is you were born 50-60 yrs too late to line up with McCarthy and call for those bad commie's heads.
My first thought is you were born 50-60 yrs too late to line up with McCarthy and call for those bad commie's heads.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P36x8rTb3jI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P36x8rTb3jI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P36x8rTb3jI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P36x8rTb3jI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
I think if 1/2 of your family grew up under the tyranny that our current president is inspired by (castro, guevara, chavez, et al) you'd be singing a different song instead of making jokes about it.
And you'd be just as worried about our future now as some of the other posters here. Today was a significant step away from the representative republic and toward the world of marx.
I can tell you with 150% certainty there are 1/10th of every person born in Cuba living here now, and of those people you're going to see at least 80% of them vehemently expressing their opposition to this, and calling it for what it is
I think if 1/2 of your family grew up under the tyranny that our current president is inspired by (castro, guevara, chavez, et al) you'd be singing a different song instead of making jokes about it.
And you'd be just as worried about our future now as some of the other posters here. Today was a significant step away from the representative republic and toward the world of marx.
I can tell you with 150% certainty there are 1/10th of every person born in Cuba living here now, and of those people you're going to see at least 80% of them vehemently expressing their opposition to this, and calling it for what it is
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Regurgitating spoon-fed rhetoric is not debate.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
spoon-fed?
my knowledge comes from my family who lived it and escaped it.
if that's what you mean by spoon-fed I'll take that insult because I can tell from your posts that you do not have family who have been through that hell. So you can sit here and state the things you're stating without guilt. fine.
if you mean talk shows, gimme a break. I don't get a chance to listen in though I'd love too. I work 13-hour days so no time for it
spoon-fed?
my knowledge comes from my family who lived it and escaped it.
if that's what you mean by spoon-fed I'll take that insult because I can tell from your posts that you do not have family who have been through that hell. So you can sit here and state the things you're stating without guilt. fine.
if you mean talk shows, gimme a break. I don't get a chance to listen in though I'd love too. I work 13-hour days so no time for it
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
as for debate, I'm awaiting patiently for it. My response you quote was directed only at the sardonic tone of the poster I quoted. nothing more.
based on my family's experiences I do not take treading on freedom lightly. we were taught very early on what's like to live under the stalinists, by a mom, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins who lived it straight-up, and escaped by the grace of god.
I know that certain people on the board don't like that fact, well....read up on it then. go live there. come back, tell me Obama isn't a disciple of che guevara. seriously.
as for debate, I'm awaiting patiently for it. My response you quote was directed only at the sardonic tone of the poster I quoted. nothing more.
based on my family's experiences I do not take treading on freedom lightly. we were taught very early on what's like to live under the stalinists, by a mom, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins who lived it straight-up, and escaped by the grace of god.
I know that certain people on the board don't like that fact, well....read up on it then. go live there. come back, tell me Obama isn't a disciple of che guevara. seriously.
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
Your logic is that since your family came from Cuba, you're an expert on socialism. By that token, since my family was in the Holocaust, I'm an expert on ovens.
The reason no one "debates" with you is that you have no clue about which you speak, and are full of insults. Even worse, you can dish it but can't take it.
Your logic is that since your family came from Cuba, you're an expert on socialism. By that token, since my family was in the Holocaust, I'm an expert on ovens.
The reason no one "debates" with you is that you have no clue about which you speak, and are full of insults. Even worse, you can dish it but can't take it.
leswp1
New member
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
While I now understand what you base your viewpoint on, it still is sadly out the other side of reality. I am glad that I don't have the angst in my heart that you do. What I have is a little less frustration knowing there is a possibility that before I retire I may not have to spend at least 50% of my day trying to figure out whether the patient in front of me can a) afford the most basic treatment or testing that will prevent them from having serious sequelae b) eventually will not have to strategize what medication my senior patients can most safetly discontinue when they hit the donut hole or afford even when they have coverage, c) can do an an health maintenance exam on the medicare patient without having the practice eat the cost because the pt can't afford it, d) see patients that have not had treatment for chronic illness because of insurance issues and then come in symptomatic, with permanent damage because they couldn't afford said insurance, e) spend more than half my visit helping the patient figure out logistics and cost rather than diagnose and treat what is wrong with them.
And before you start on how they will tell us how to practice medicine and direct care- the insurance companies do this in a very arbitrary way with no recourse and many times are requiring us to change perfectly good treatment plans simply because they have a deal with pharm companies for a different medication. So even if they do that (which I can't see anywhere in the bill) there would be no change.
Do I like the whole bill- no. It is going to cause a CF of major proportions because we don't have enough primary care providers to care for the population. When Mass started the insurance requirement we had an instant shortage. There are a ton of other potential problems that Mass makes a great audiovisual aid for. It certainly isn't perfect.
Access/ability to pay for care is the worst I have seen it in the 30yrs since I started school. The amount of people undertreated and underdiagnosed due to financial issues is mindnumbing. The percentage of working people that can't afford the most basic care used to be low enough that it was an anomaly that I had to discuss what they could afford, etc. Now I would say that greater than 50% of my patients part of the visit is discussing what they can afford. These are people who have worked their whole lives. They don't have the plasma TV and the big car.
I would love to see someone do a projection of cost if we kept things as a status quo. I didn't ever see that. Doing nothing would have bankrupted the system. We have a critical mass of people aging up, undertreated, undiagnosed who are a trainwreck waiting to happen. It costs a hell of a lot less to treat someone's diabetes, blood pressure than treat their heart attack, kidney failure, stroke and resultant incapacities to the tune of a few hundred thousand (on the cheap side).
This isn't socialism, it is a much more cost effective way to run things in the long run. Socialism would be providing for everyone. We certainly don't and won't. The biggest problem with the system is that you can't link profit to good medical care. There is no way to make good money without an effect on good healthcare. If you look at the best health systems in the world for the population as a whole, profit is not part of the picture.
While I now understand what you base your viewpoint on, it still is sadly out the other side of reality. I am glad that I don't have the angst in my heart that you do. What I have is a little less frustration knowing there is a possibility that before I retire I may not have to spend at least 50% of my day trying to figure out whether the patient in front of me can a) afford the most basic treatment or testing that will prevent them from having serious sequelae b) eventually will not have to strategize what medication my senior patients can most safetly discontinue when they hit the donut hole or afford even when they have coverage, c) can do an an health maintenance exam on the medicare patient without having the practice eat the cost because the pt can't afford it, d) see patients that have not had treatment for chronic illness because of insurance issues and then come in symptomatic, with permanent damage because they couldn't afford said insurance, e) spend more than half my visit helping the patient figure out logistics and cost rather than diagnose and treat what is wrong with them.
And before you start on how they will tell us how to practice medicine and direct care- the insurance companies do this in a very arbitrary way with no recourse and many times are requiring us to change perfectly good treatment plans simply because they have a deal with pharm companies for a different medication. So even if they do that (which I can't see anywhere in the bill) there would be no change.
Do I like the whole bill- no. It is going to cause a CF of major proportions because we don't have enough primary care providers to care for the population. When Mass started the insurance requirement we had an instant shortage. There are a ton of other potential problems that Mass makes a great audiovisual aid for. It certainly isn't perfect.
Access/ability to pay for care is the worst I have seen it in the 30yrs since I started school. The amount of people undertreated and underdiagnosed due to financial issues is mindnumbing. The percentage of working people that can't afford the most basic care used to be low enough that it was an anomaly that I had to discuss what they could afford, etc. Now I would say that greater than 50% of my patients part of the visit is discussing what they can afford. These are people who have worked their whole lives. They don't have the plasma TV and the big car.
I would love to see someone do a projection of cost if we kept things as a status quo. I didn't ever see that. Doing nothing would have bankrupted the system. We have a critical mass of people aging up, undertreated, undiagnosed who are a trainwreck waiting to happen. It costs a hell of a lot less to treat someone's diabetes, blood pressure than treat their heart attack, kidney failure, stroke and resultant incapacities to the tune of a few hundred thousand (on the cheap side).
This isn't socialism, it is a much more cost effective way to run things in the long run. Socialism would be providing for everyone. We certainly don't and won't. The biggest problem with the system is that you can't link profit to good medical care. There is no way to make good money without an effect on good healthcare. If you look at the best health systems in the world for the population as a whole, profit is not part of the picture.
Last edited:
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
"Shut up," he explained.
"Shut up," he explained.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
I'd say my reference point is that my family (1/2 of them) are Cuban and were there when Guevara and Castro rolled in from the mountains with their promises of "hope" and "change", and that reference point forces me to think differently about people like Obama who have called the constitution a "charter of negative liberties", and seek to redistribute wealth to rectify injustices real or perceived (see his 2001 WBEZ-NPR interview in its entirety to hear what his foundation is and goals are).
I do take issue with people on the meaning of the word socialism and the extent to which Obama is willing to sacrifice to get there.
my first posts were a reaction to people (handyman really) telling the board they "know" what socialism is because they've studied it.
so my response is, we know what socialism is cause we lived it, escaped it, and now, sadly, are watching the president of the U.S. attempt to dismantle the republic for which it stood to remake it, and his touchstones are all of the people we've run from, throughout history.
I'd say my reference point is that my family (1/2 of them) are Cuban and were there when Guevara and Castro rolled in from the mountains with their promises of "hope" and "change", and that reference point forces me to think differently about people like Obama who have called the constitution a "charter of negative liberties", and seek to redistribute wealth to rectify injustices real or perceived (see his 2001 WBEZ-NPR interview in its entirety to hear what his foundation is and goals are).
I do take issue with people on the meaning of the word socialism and the extent to which Obama is willing to sacrifice to get there.
my first posts were a reaction to people (handyman really) telling the board they "know" what socialism is because they've studied it.
so my response is, we know what socialism is cause we lived it, escaped it, and now, sadly, are watching the president of the U.S. attempt to dismantle the republic for which it stood to remake it, and his touchstones are all of the people we've run from, throughout history.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
thank you for a very eloquent response. will get back on this later
thank you for a very eloquent response. will get back on this later
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
What countries do you feel have the best systems?
What countries do you feel have the best systems?
leswp1
New member
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
Swiss, French, Germany off the top of my head- very comprehensive, not a reactive style of medicine but proactive. Also- population buys in to healthy lifestyle and social pressure for that is high.
No system is perfect but I do buy into the ideal that everyone should have access to health care. I know that sends people screaming about socialism and folks not deserving it etc. But if you put aside all the stuff about people taking advantage of the system/ not being deserving and are pragmatic about it people without regular healthcare cost a gagillion dollars in crisis management healthcare dollars that could have been spent in a better way. Sick people aren't productive, are a drain on their family and community and use a ton of resources. Kids without good care when younger are at way higher risk to be costly when older and also put other kids at risk if they get something that was preventable. Sick kids affect their classmates, parents, other family members.
Obviously there is no panacea. There are those patients who are noncompliant (or what ever the PC word for it is now)and no amt of availability will change things but there are plenty of people that would give jsut about anything to have access that just can't afford it.
Sorry- just a bit too much coffee this AM.
Swiss, French, Germany off the top of my head- very comprehensive, not a reactive style of medicine but proactive. Also- population buys in to healthy lifestyle and social pressure for that is high.
No system is perfect but I do buy into the ideal that everyone should have access to health care. I know that sends people screaming about socialism and folks not deserving it etc. But if you put aside all the stuff about people taking advantage of the system/ not being deserving and are pragmatic about it people without regular healthcare cost a gagillion dollars in crisis management healthcare dollars that could have been spent in a better way. Sick people aren't productive, are a drain on their family and community and use a ton of resources. Kids without good care when younger are at way higher risk to be costly when older and also put other kids at risk if they get something that was preventable. Sick kids affect their classmates, parents, other family members.
Obviously there is no panacea. There are those patients who are noncompliant (or what ever the PC word for it is now)and no amt of availability will change things but there are plenty of people that would give jsut about anything to have access that just can't afford it.
Sorry- just a bit too much coffee this AM.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
I have no problems with most
everyone having access to healthcare. I don't mind my tax dollars going to pay for it. . I realize their are folks who can't pay in, no problem with them. Other choose to lead a life leaching off the system, those are the ones I have an issue with.
I have no problems with most
everyone having access to healthcare. I don't mind my tax dollars going to pay for it. . I realize their are folks who can't pay in, no problem with them. Other choose to lead a life leaching off the system, those are the ones I have an issue with.
ScottM
**** it feels good to be a bankster
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
That's where I wish this bill had aimed more carefully. If you want to decrease costs over time, and perhaps the need for care, there should be more emphasis on preventative and primary care. As an aside, I always found it appalling that people in this country were denied basic health care because they didn't have an insurance card. Especially when our government spends billions+ for care around the globe from Haiti to Iraq.
That's where I wish this bill had aimed more carefully. If you want to decrease costs over time, and perhaps the need for care, there should be more emphasis on preventative and primary care. As an aside, I always found it appalling that people in this country were denied basic health care because they didn't have an insurance card. Especially when our government spends billions+ for care around the globe from Haiti to Iraq.
leswp1
New member
Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover
Even if they are leaching off the system they cost more to exclude. It burns my a 55 to have someone on pulic program with the pack of butts hanging out of thier Coach purse and the manicured nails with decals waving at me and whining that they want me to write a prescription for a humidifier because they know insurance will pay for it.
Seriously POs me when I know patients who have been excluded and need to reapply. One patient in particular has had a medical condition worsten in a nonreversible way directly related to the fact that they periodiically stop coverage. She needs to reapply, I need to fill out a ream of paperwork again and it is beyond obvious that she is disabled. They stop coverage, her condition goes completely out of control. They reinstate it a month or more later (duh!) I have to order a boatload of tests to see where she is so we can resume treatment. Then I have to order a boatload more until she is in control. Thousands of dollars in the last 3-4 years that are completely wasted. Her medical condition has deteriorated every time. No one can explain the rationale for the discontinuation.
Makes me sick.
I have no problems with most
Even if they are leaching off the system they cost more to exclude. It burns my a 55 to have someone on pulic program with the pack of butts hanging out of thier Coach purse and the manicured nails with decals waving at me and whining that they want me to write a prescription for a humidifier because they know insurance will pay for it.
Seriously POs me when I know patients who have been excluded and need to reapply. One patient in particular has had a medical condition worsten in a nonreversible way directly related to the fact that they periodiically stop coverage. She needs to reapply, I need to fill out a ream of paperwork again and it is beyond obvious that she is disabled. They stop coverage, her condition goes completely out of control. They reinstate it a month or more later (duh!) I have to order a boatload of tests to see where she is so we can resume treatment. Then I have to order a boatload more until she is in control. Thousands of dollars in the last 3-4 years that are completely wasted. Her medical condition has deteriorated every time. No one can explain the rationale for the discontinuation.
Makes me sick.