2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

The votes are there. Anytime Boehner wants to stop the shutdown he can introduce a clean CR and it now has enough votes to pass. Explain to me again how this is in any way the Democrats' fault.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

The votes are there. Anytime Boehner wants to stop the shutdown he can introduce a clean CR and it now has enough votes to pass. Explain to me again how this is in any way the Democrats' fault.

He's got time for the remainder of today to try as much maneuvering as he can perform without it impacting anything. Since he's a politician to his core, he'll use every minute he can spare. Then he'll bring it to the floor for a vote. If that's not the case, then he runs the risk of having everyone who's watching place the entirely on his shoulders.

 

[unofan]

Of course. The Republicans will throw everything into the negotiations over the debt ceiling. And they'll get none of it. There won't be any deal by the 17th. And there won't be and default on the 17th or after, at least not in the foreseeable future. I do agree that the country does need to get a handle on the debt overall.

If I say to my family that we're not going to charge more than $5000 on a credit card, and then the balance hits $5000, and I say, ok, we're not going to charge more than $10,000 on the credit card, the problem is not the argument my wife and I have over the move from $5000 to $10,000. And we're not going to default as we go past that $5000 number. The problem is that at some point we will hit a number that we can't service, and then we will default.

Same with the country. Whatever the debt ceiling is now, if we go past that number we're not going to default, whether we agree to raise that ceiling or not. If default were a real threat as we cross that divide, we ought not even be talking about raising it. But somewhere down the line there will be a number. We're not close yet, but someday we will be.

You're presuming Obama 1) orders the treasury to issue more bonds anyway, 2) mints the trillion dollar platinum coin, 3) invokes the 14th Amendment, or 4) otherwise ignores the debt ceiling and all but guarantees the house impeaches him. Otherwise, we default notwithstanding whatever else you think is going to happen unless the GOP pulls its collective head out of its ***.

I've yet to see evidence he'll do any of that. He's said he won't invoke the 14th, and the trillion dollar coin, while technically legal, is just one step shy of default on the badness scale from an economics perspective.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

You're presuming Obama 1) orders the treasury to issue more bonds anyway, 2) mints the trillion dollar platinum coin, 3) invokes the 14th Amendment, or 4) otherwise ignores the debt ceiling and all but guarantees the house impeaches him. Otherwise, we default notwithstanding whatever else you think is going to happen unless the GOP pulls its collective head out of its ***.

I've yet to see evidence he'll do any of that. He's said he won't invoke the 14th, and the trillion dollar coin, while technically legal, is just one step shy of default on the badness scale from an economics perspective.

I tell you what. I'll make you a deal. I've got about two and a half pickup loads of firewood beside my garage. Since your currency, stocks and bonds are all about to become worthless, let's swap. Send me those financial assets and I'll deliver the wood myself. It'll burn a lot longer and hotter for you than that paper you think you're going to have to use for heat.

 

[unofan]

I tell you what. I'll make you a deal. I've got about two and a half pickup loads of firewood beside my garage. Since your currency, stocks and bonds are all about to become worthless, let's swap. Send me those financial assets and I'll deliver the wood myself. It'll burn a lot longer and hotter for you than that paper you think you're going to have to use for heat.

Just because I think they'll be worth less if we default doesn't mean they aren't still worth more than firewood from half a continent away.

Besides, I don't hold many bonds, my debt is locked in at low fixed rates, and I don't plan on retiring for 25 years or so. I can weather the storm. Many people will not be able to as well.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Look, I feel bad for the innocent federal workers who have their lives disrupted by furloughs and lost paychecks. But these things are about as much a "crisis" as the living arrangements of the Kardashians. It's political theater (and not very entertaining political theater at that).

The shutdown not leading to a "crisis" shouldn't be the focal point - it should be House/Senate members acting like spoiled children. We shouldn't need a total calamity for that to matter.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I've yet to see evidence he'll do any of that. He's said he won't invoke the 14th, and the trillion dollar coin, while technically legal, is just one step shy of default on the badness scale from an economics perspective.

I didn't understand his refusal to invoke the 14th at the time he did it originally and I still don't understand it.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I wonder what would happen if Obama and the Democrats refused to restart the government or raise the debt ceiling until the Republicans agreed to a law overturning Citizens United....

Oh wait, the US Supreme Court already ruled on that... Too bad it hasn't said anything about <s>Romney</s>ObamaCare.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Of course. The Republicans will throw everything into the negotiations over the debt ceiling. And they'll get none of it. There won't be any deal by the 17th. And there won't be and default on the 17th or after, at least not in the foreseeable future. I do agree that the country does need to get a handle on the debt overall.

If I say to my family that we're not going to charge more than $5000 on a credit card, and then the balance hits $5000, and I say, ok, we're not going to charge more than $10,000 on the credit card, the problem is not the argument my wife and I have over the move from $5000 to $10,000. And we're not going to default as we go past that $5000 number. The problem is that at some point we will hit a number that we can't service, and then we will default.

Same with the country. Whatever the debt ceiling is now, if we go past that number we're not going to default, whether we agree to raise that ceiling or not. If default were a real threat as we cross that divide, we ought not even be talking about raising it. But somewhere down the line there will be a number. We're not close yet, but someday we will be.

I don't think your understanding of the debt ceiling is correct. You obviously didn't pay attention to what happened last time. Our credit rating was downgraded you know.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I don't think your understanding of the debt ceiling is correct. You obviously didn't pay attention to what happened last time. Our credit rating was downgraded you know.

We went through a downgrade and the interest rates our government pays to its lenders didn't change one bit. Unless it gets down to single-A levels, it won't mean a thing in terms of real impacts to the way our officials act, because it won't impact the federal government's ability to borrow, and only then will the impact set in if the people truly start to vote out long-term incumbents. For that to happen, it would take more than just a minor miracle, because, after all, it's not MY rep or senator, it's all the other reps and senators that are the problem.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I wonder what would happen if Obama and the Democrats refused to restart the government or raise the debt ceiling until the Republicans agreed to a law overturning Citizens United....

Oh wait, the US Supreme Court already ruled on that... Too bad it hasn't said anything about <s>Romney</s>ObamaCare.

Overturning Citizens United is a bit more complicated than one would think. The personhood of corporations is a long held doctrine of US law that is almost as old as the Republic. You'd have a better chance of outlawing corporations as a means of ownership than overturning CU.

 

[unofan]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

We went through a downgrade and the interest rates our government pays to its lenders didn't change one bit. Unless it gets down to single-A levels, it won't mean a thing in terms of real impacts to the way our officials act, because it won't impact the federal government's ability to borrow, and only then will the impact set in if the people truly start to vote out long-term incumbents. For that to happen, it would take more than just a minor miracle, because, after all, it's not MY rep or senator, it's all the other reps and senators that are the problem.

Because we didn't actually default. I'd prefer we not find out what happens when we jump off that cliff. Especially when the party of "personal responsibility" drives us there.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Overturning Citizens United is a bit more complicated than one would think. The personhood of corporations is a long held doctrine of US law that is almost as old as the Republic. You'd have a better chance of outlawing corporations as a means of ownership than overturning CU.

What a great idea!
(Oh, and corporations didn't used to be people. That's a concept that originated after the Civil War, decided by the same Court that gave us "Separate but Equal".)

The point is, the Democrats aren't doing this. They don't like the decision, think that law is hurtful to the majority of Americans, but aren't throwing a temper tantrum on the floor of Congress.

 

[unofan]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Overturning Citizens United is a bit more complicated than one would think. The personhood of corporations is a long held doctrine of US law that is almost as old as the Republic. You'd have a better chance of outlawing corporations as a means of ownership than overturning CU.

Citizen's United is grounded in the belief that money = speech. Eliminate that, and you don't even have to touch the legal fiction of corporate personhood.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

He's got time for the remainder of today to try as much maneuvering as he can perform without it impacting anything. Since he's a politician to his core, he'll use every minute he can spare. Then he'll bring it to the floor for a vote. If that's not the case, then he runs the risk of having everyone who's watching place the entirely on his shoulders.

It's after midnight in DC. New day. So I assume Boehner has introduced a clean CR and the House will pass it momentarily. Right?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

What a great idea!
(Oh, and corporations didn't used to be people. That's a concept that originated after the Civil War, decided by the same Court that gave us "Separate but Equal".)

The point is, the Democrats aren't doing this. They don't like the decision, think that law is hurtful to the majority of Americans, but aren't throwing a temper tantrum on the floor of Congress.

No, they just rely on that sniveling bully in the White House to throw their temper tantrum during a SOTU, when the justices are there and have to take his cheap sh*t. Very classy.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I think this only gets resolved by Boner losing his job. Here's how I can see it playing out.

Pelosi should go to Peter King and tell him he has her entire caucuses support for House Speaker for the rest of this Congress. He just needs to find 16 other Repubs to support him. That shouldn't be that hard as the NY delegation ought to be with him at the very least and then he needs to get a handful more. She should even release a letter publically saying so to give the guy some cover. Then King gives it a couple of weeks but the day before the debt limit is reached he needs to go to Boner and say you have until tomorrow morning to pull a rabbit out of your hat. By noon you're out. You need 217 votes to declare the Speaker position vacant and another 217 to appoint someone. Put King in place and get the debt lifted + govt funded, then have him appoint people to go to conference, something the Senate did months ago.

I'm sorry the GOP leader is impotent, but that can't stop the entire govt from functioning. He's had multiple opportunities to end this, but the Teabaggers have him by the balls. That's not going to change and the man appears to have zero courage. That's his problem, not the country's.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

We went through a downgrade and the interest rates our government pays to its lenders didn't change one bit. Unless it gets down to single-A levels, it won't mean a thing in terms of real impacts to the way our officials act, because it won't impact the federal government's ability to borrow, and only then will the impact set in if the people truly start to vote out long-term incumbents. For that to happen, it would take more than just a minor miracle, because, after all, it's not MY rep or senator, it's all the other reps and senators that are the problem.

Long Term Incumbents? Really? The nut jobs that caused most of this crap are all new guys/gals.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I think this only gets resolved by Boner losing his job. Here's how I can see it playing out.

Pelosi should go to Peter King and tell him he has her entire caucuses support for House Speaker for the rest of this Congress. He just needs to find 16 other Repubs to support him. That shouldn't be that hard as the NY delegation ought to be with him at the very least and then he needs to get a handful more. She should even release a letter publically saying so to give the guy some cover. Then King gives it a couple of weeks but the day before the debt limit is reached he needs to go to Boner and say you have until tomorrow morning to pull a rabbit out of your hat. By noon you're out. You need 217 votes to declare the Speaker position vacant and another 217 to appoint someone. Put King in place and get the debt lifted + govt funded, then have him appoint people to go to conference, something the Senate did months ago.

I'm sorry the GOP leader is impotent, but that can't stop the entire govt from functioning. He's had multiple opportunities to end this, but the Teabaggers have him by the balls. That's not going to change and the man appears to have zero courage. That's his problem, not the country's.

Trust Nancy Pelosi? Thanks for a good chuckle.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Long Term Incumbents? Really? The nut jobs that caused most of this crap are all new guys/gals.

The nut job caucus:

John Culberson - 7th term
Phil Gingrey, Steve King - 6th term
Louis Gohrmet - 5th term
Michelle Bachmann, Jim Jordan - 4th term
Tom Graves, Phil Fleming - 3rd term
David Schweikert, Raœl Labrador, Thomas Massie, Mick Mulvaney, Tim Huelskamp, Justin Amash, Jeff Duncan - 2nd term
Matt Salmon, Ted Yoho, Jim Bridenstine, Ron DeSantis, Steve Stockman - 1st term