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2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

French Rage said:
OK, two things about this shortfall:
a) We're not at the final count.
b) These are not two unchangeable pools of voters; people can switch from one election to the next.

Let's say the final result is 72M-75M, compared to 81M-75M in 2020. That doesn't mean 9M Dem voters didn't vote and an extra 1M GOP voters did. It means something more along the lines that 4M Dem voters didn't vote, 4M GOP voters didn't vote, and 4M Biden voters voted for Trump this time around. They went for Biden for 2020 because of Trump and Covid and went for Trump in 2024 because of Biden and inflation; there's a always a big chunk of voters who switch back and forth each time because the grass in always greener on the other side. And I'm not saying this to pretend that that isn't a problem, but it's important to at least understand what level of problem we are dealing with. It is two different 4M voter problems, that both need to be addressed in some manner, not one single 9M problem.
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And those stay-homers and switchers would be considered getables, would they not? Aren't they the target voters for both campaigns?
 
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cF[Authentic said:
;n3904667]I was with a group of germans, canadians, and others on election "night" over here in Germany and we were talking about the biggest differences in why social systems generally work much better here (in Germany) and why they would never work in the US. And it all boils down to a majority of Americans are selfish as ****. There's no "for the greater good" like you see in Europe. I'm one of millions in this country willing to pay 45% taxes or more because I know it raises the quality of life for nearly everyone - and when I do need to use any of the social services available, they'll be there for me - and they'll be pretty much free.

There's such a minority of people in the US willing to do that and the systems would never work because even the Democrats have policies that are further right than CSU/CDU.
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Speaking of

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/QrlXpAjtbC
 
So, much like entirely too early NFL Mock drafts, I know alot can happen in four years, but who do the Dems have and the GOP have (if Trump doesnt overturn the constitution to let him run again).

Jared Polis? Tim Walz? Mark Kelly? Josh Shapiro? Andy Beshear? Wes Moore? Gavin Newsome? Pete?

GOP has Vance, Desantis, Stefanik? ....?
 
burd said:
And those stay-homers and switchers would be considered getables, would they not? Aren't they the target voters for both campaigns?
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No.

And it doesn't matter anyway. It so cute you think they'll be an election next time. Oh, sure there will. Just like Russia and China.
 
aparch said:
Bold of you to assume we'll have an election.
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trump or the fascists could certainly go a different route, but for the time being I am glad our constitution is nearly impossible to amend. MAGAts in congress will float a repeal of the 22nd amendment but it fortunately won't go anywhere. Half of congress would fall in line, as would half or slightly more of the states, but at least we don't have to worry about 2/3rd and 3/4ths doing so. Yet.
 
burd said:
So, I post a comment hoping libs pay some mind to Bernie's post-election comment, and dxmn immediately takes issue with it. His post elicits likes from just about everyone on this board. My original post, meanwhile, elicits a like from Mr. Drew.

Either of those alone is pretty convincing evidence I'm an idiot. Together, they are irrefutable.

Just shoot me now and throw me over the fence.
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Because Bernie was just wrong. Wrong in what he said. Wrong to have said it.

How was what he said based on fact? The Biden admin has been the most pro-labor admin since FDR.
 
French Rage said:
OK, two things about this shortfall:
a) We're not at the final count.
b) These are not two unchangeable pools of voters; people can switch from one election to the next.

Let's say the final result is 72M-75M, compared to 81M-75M in 2020. That doesn't mean 9M Dem voters didn't vote and an extra 1M GOP voters did. It means something more along the lines that 4M Dem voters didn't vote, 4M GOP voters didn't vote, and 4M Biden voters voted for Trump this time around. They went for Biden for 2020 because of Trump and Covid and went for Trump in 2024 because of Biden and inflation; there's a always a big chunk of voters who switch back and forth each time because the grass in always greener on the other side. And I'm not saying this to pretend that that isn't a problem, but it's important to at least understand what level of problem we are dealing with. It is two different 4M voter problems, that both need to be addressed in some manner, not one single 9M problem.
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Bingo. It's just unknowable right now until we dig deep into post election numbers and even then it's an educated guess.

I've been playing with the numbers and nationwide, the average county has HIGHER overall turnout while the big cities were way underperforming. An outsized drop.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Because Bernie was just wrong. Wrong in what he said. Wrong to have said it.

How was what he said based on fact? The Biden admin has been the most pro-labor admin since FDR.
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I'm pretty sure most people on this forum do not make their living in the labor movement. I do. And I concur that the Biden administration was certainly the most pro-labor administration in my lifetime, and probably in the history of the modern labor movement with the singular exception of the FDR administration. Now much of what his administration accomplished could be overturned since a lot of it in EOs and appointments. trump is sure to eviscerate whatever he can. Bernie Sanders may have wished it was MORE pro-labor than it was, but his administrations efforts were appreciated by people like me to a great extent.

Sanders did refer to his abandonment of "working class people" which some may claim is not the same as support of "labor" but really, the Biden administration did just about as much as it could, especially working in the current environment where congress -- even a lot of democrats -- does not really support either working class people or the greater labor movement at large.

Legislation this administration offered, appointments to the federal bench, his NRLB, all displayed an allegiance to labor unlike any democratic president in the last 75 years. For Christ's sake, wasn't his first official act as president to force the ouster of the very anti-union/anti-worker general counsel of the NLRB? While I agree with a lot of what Sanders has to say, anymore he is an old man yelling at clouds. There isn't much pragmatism left in his blood. For us to get what he wants us to have would take a f uc king bloody revolution. Ain't gonna happen in 2024 America, especially when tens of millions of Americans vote against their own economic interests because they are afraid some trans woman is gonna show up at their daughter's high school volleyball game playing for the other team.

At some point people need to understand the problem is the voters. Nothing more, nothing less. This country is f uck ed because people willfully choose to believe the lies that are fed to them because it makes them feel better.
 
There is no way for the Democrats to get the anti-immigrant, anti-woman, and alternate economic reality vote. No way in hell. They're done.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
There is no way for the Democrats to get the anti-immigrant, anti-woman, and alternate economic reality vote. No way in hell. They're done.
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From Eschaton:

There is a piece in The Atlantic by Franklin Foer which has someone from Bidenworld arguing Biden would've campaigned as a bigger bastard to trans people, as if that would have been a good thing.
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The Dem political consultant class hasn't a clue about what they're doing.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
trump or the fascists could certainly go a different route, but for the time being I am glad our constitution is nearly impossible to amend. MAGAts in congress will float a repeal of the 22nd amendment but it fortunately won't go anywhere. Half of congress would fall in line, as would half or slightly more of the states, but at least we don't have to worry about 2/3rd and 3/4ths doing so. Yet.
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They have a corrupted SCOTUS and POTUS, an ineptly ignorant Senate and House. The deck is stacked to make anything they’d like to do with their laws as they please. And they have no care for how they will be viewed by history or the rest of the world.

To say the least, I’m not optimistic.
 
St. Clown said:
They have a corrupted SCOTUS and POTUS, an ineptly ignorant Senate and House. The deck is stacked to make anything they’d like to do with their laws as they please. And they have no care for how they will be viewed by history or the rest of the world.

To say the least, I’m not optimistic.
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I cannot wait for all the "I didn't vote for this" commentary.

Yes, you did.
 
It's pretty clear there are now only two classes of people who once called themselves Democrats: Those who roll over and quit, and Pollyannas. And don't try to kid yourself into thinking you don't belong to one or the other.
 
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