2023 D3 Bracketology

[Russell Jaslow]

So is this wrong? https://www.uscho.com/standings/nescac/2022-2023/

Yes.

Essentially every conference now does their own unique points system. USCHO has not kept up with it at all.

Sometimes they get “lucky.” For instance, their SUNYAC standings have the teams in the proper order. But the points are completely wrong.

Then sometimes the order is incorrect along with the points.

 

[Pioneer247]

Yes.

Essentially every conference now does their own unique points system. USCHO has not kept up with it at all.

Sometimes they get “lucky.” For instance, their SUNYAC standings have the teams in the proper order. But the points are completely wrong.

Then sometimes the order is incorrect along with the points.

It's what I deserve for trusting USCHO at this point, but with that change, nothing really changes

CCC: Endicott (3)
MASCAC: Plymouth State (6)
MIAC: St. Scholastica (24)
NCHA: Adrian (T-4)
NEHC: Hobart (T-1)
NESCAC: Wesleyan (11)
SUNYAC: Oswego (12)
UCHC: Utica (T-1*)
WIAC: Stevens Point (10)

At-Large:

Curry (T-4*)
Plattsburgh (7)
UNE (8)

First Round:

Oswego @ Adrian
Wesleyan @ Endicott
Plattsburgh @ Curry
UNE @ Plymouth State

Quarterfinals:

UNE/Plymouth State @ Utica
Oswego/Adrian @ Hobart
Plattsburgh/Curry @ Wesleyan/Endicott
St. Scholastica @ Stevens Point

 

[Pioneer247]

Remember, Elmira and Hobart did play last year in the first round. When three teams from one conference are in, it’s hard to avoid that.

They had to play each other because that was an unavoidable situation, because one of those 2 had to play Adrian and there was a bye involved.

With this situation, bracket integrity is still pretty much upheld, and all of the matchups do work, so that's why I arranged it like that

 

[tony/troy]

Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by UCBadger View Post

Aren't they tied at 82?

1	Utica	82	21-2-1	0.8958	2	0.6246*	1
1	Hobart	82	24-2-0	0.9231	1	0.6168*	2
3	Endicott	81	20-2-2	0.8750	3	0.6156*	3

Yes , but Utica has a small edge in RPI , which is probably a tie breaker

1	Utica	0.6023	0.6217*	0.0029	0.6246	21-2-1	0.8940	1	0.5051	38
2	Hobart	0.6019	0.6148*	0.0020	0.6168	24-2-0	0.8852	2

Not a PWR authority by any means but, as of the close of business on Sunday, the Utica RPI "tiebreaker" advantage over Hobart is only .0072.

However, excluding major upsets in conference tournaments, Utica's next three likely opponents can only be a small handful of games over .500 at best. On the other hand, Hobart's next two likely opponents will be over 20 games above .500.

Can the present advantage of only .0072 survive that???

 

[Pioneer247]

Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by UCBadger View Post

Aren't they tied at 82?

1	Utica	82	21-2-1	0.8958	2	0.6246*	1
1	Hobart	82	24-2-0	0.9231	1	0.6168*	2
3	Endicott	81	20-2-2	0.8750	3	0.6156*	3

Yes , but Utica has a small edge in RPI , which is probably a tie breaker

1	Utica	0.6023	0.6217*	0.0029	0.6246	21-2-1	0.8940	1	0.5051	38
2	Hobart	0.6019	0.6148*	0.0020	0.6168	24-2-0	0.8852	2

Not a PWR authority by any means but, as of the close of business on Sunday, the Utica RPI "tiebreaker" advantage over Hobart is only .0072.

However, excluding major upsets in conference tournaments, Utica's next three likely opponents can only be a small handful of games over .500 at best. On the other hand, Hobart's next two likely opponents will be over 20 games above .500.

Can the present advantage of only .0072 survive that???

Utica theoretically having 3 games left compared to Hobart's 2 doesn't help Hobart. Hobart would get a small Quality Win bonus with a win over Norwich in the final, but I believe if Utica wins out, they will have the numbers to retain #1 in RPI.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by UCBadger View Post

Aren't they tied at 82?

1	Utica	82	21-2-1	0.8958	2	0.6246*	1
1	Hobart	82	24-2-0	0.9231	1	0.6168*	2
3	Endicott	81	20-2-2	0.8750	3	0.6156*	3

Yes , but Utica has a small edge in RPI , which is probably a tie breaker

1	Utica	0.6023	0.6217*	0.0029	0.6246	21-2-1	0.8940	1	0.5051	38
2	Hobart	0.6019	0.6148*	0.0020	0.6168	24-2-0	0.8852	2

Not a PWR authority by any means but, as of the close of business on Sunday, the Utica RPI "tiebreaker" advantage over Hobart is only .0072.

However, excluding major upsets in conference tournaments, Utica's next three likely opponents can only be a small handful of games over .500 at best. On the other hand, Hobart's next two likely opponents will be over 20 games above .500.

Can the present advantage of only .0072 survive that???

Keep in mind your opponent’s opponent SOS also factors into the PWR equation. So, it’s not as “simple” as just looking at your opponent’s record.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Remember, Elmira and Hobart did play last year in the first round. When three teams from one conference are in, it’s hard to avoid that.

Interesting note: The DIII Women’s Ice Hockey Pre-Championship Manual, which spells out all the procedures, makes specific mention that conference opponents will not meet in the first round (alongside the prohibition on one region hosting the championship more than 3 consecutive years, which we know is a rule only for DIII women’s hockey), but the corresponding section of the DIII Men’s Ice Hockey Pre-Championship Manual makes no such reference about avoiding conference matchups.

it could be relevant on the women’s side this year, as the NESCAC seems poised to claim 4 spots in the 11-team tournament. Couple that with “the Adrian problem,” and it seems impossible for Plattsburgh to get one of 5 first-round byes, even as the #2 seed (possibly even as the #1)

 

[Fishman'81]

Your response had absolutely nothing to do with my post. Which is typical of your shouting at the clouds rant.

And as for your typical post, the D3 schools want this system. And it’s for all sports. The NCAA doesn’t pull rules out of their butts. They make rules based on what the membership wants.

And for some reason you can never understand this concept. The schools want these type of selection rules which includes AQs for all eligible conferences. (BTW, I could never understand the moronic argument that a conference was just one team short. There has to be a limit. Otherwise there could be a two team conference and they would get an AQ. A limit is a limit. Everyone knows it, and if you can’t meet it, too bad.)

So go scream somewhere else. Nobody is listening to you anymore.

(Drink much..?)

I'm not screaming. I don't scream.

All I am advocating is a level playing field on the National level, as-in, employing the PW to select the teams and the siting, period.

Never mind how the conferences decide their champions. The PW doesn't recognize that silliness anyway.

The PW is completely objective, and that's a good thing.

Get it?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

(Drink much..?)

I'm not screaming. I don't scream.

All I am advocating is a level playing field on the National level, as-in, employing the PW to select the teams and the siting, period.

Never mind how the conferences decide their champions. The PW doesn't recognize that silliness anyway.

The PW is completely objective, and that's a good thing.

Get it?

What you don't get is the schools want it the way it is, including the conference playoffs deciding the AQ.

They have a dog in the fight ... and the money. You don't.

So yes, you continue to shout at the clouds, but they will never, ever answer back.

Get it?

 

[llama]

Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by UCBadger View Post

Aren't they tied at 82?

1	Utica	82	21-2-1	0.8958	2	0.6246*	1
1	Hobart	82	24-2-0	0.9231	1	0.6168*	2
3	Endicott	81	20-2-2	0.8750	3	0.6156*	3

Yes , but Utica has a small edge in RPI , which is probably a tie breaker

1	Utica	0.6023	0.6217*	0.0029	0.6246	21-2-1	0.8940	1	0.5051	38
2	Hobart	0.6019	0.6148*	0.0020	0.6168	24-2-0	0.8852	2

Not a PWR authority by any means but, as of the close of business on Sunday, the Utica RPI "tiebreaker" advantage over Hobart is only .0072.

However, excluding major upsets in conference tournaments, Utica's next three likely opponents can only be a small handful of games over .500 at best. On the other hand, Hobart's next two likely opponents will be over 20 games above .500.

Can the present advantage of only .0072 survive that???

Here's a "fun factoid"....for whatever it is worth.

Looking at the current top 25 teams in terms of PWR.....Hobart has a combined record of 8-1 against the top-25 teams. Utica is 2-2-1.

 

[Bartman]

Here's a "fun factoid"....for whatever it is worth.

Looking at the current top 25 teams in terms of PWR.....Hobart has a combined record of 8-1 against the top-25 teams. Utica is 2-2-1.

While this is fun and interesting, Hobart did lose to Elmira which is #34 I believe. Although that loss followed a win over Elmira on Friday that weekend, when they were missing their leading scorer, a top defenseman and head coach who were busy helping the USA achieve a silver medal. I do , however, prefer to be ranked #2 and let Utica carry the target and #1 ranking in both PWR and USCHO poll. Lot's of hockey to play ,as the Cooler awaits Skidmore and avenging last year's tournament loss. Hobart has no easy game the rest of the way.

 

[Fishman'81]

What you don't get is the schools want it the way it is, including the conference playoffs deciding the AQ.

They have a dog in the fight ... and the money. You don't.

So yes, you continue to shout at the clouds, but they will never, ever answer back.

Get it?

I never mentioned the stupid conference-tournament-champion-AQ thing. Was just talking about fair NCAA siting via the PW.

(And hey, a TON of us used to "shout at the clouds" re: the smoky room selection process. We were browbeaten by prescient folks such as yourself telling us it was an immutable fact, but then WHAMMO!, the PW actually replaced the system that existed for decades... Call me Pollyanna, but over time, sometimes actual logic finds a way.)

I'm an old man, but a true believer, and I'll b**** about the process until it makes sense. SOMEBODY has to light a candle in the dark.

 

[llama]

While this is fun and interesting, Hobart did lose to Elmira which is #34 I believe. Although that loss followed a win over Elmira on Friday that weekend, when they were missing their leading scorer, a top defenseman and head coach who were busy helping the USA achieve a silver medal. I do , however, prefer to be ranked #2 and let Utica carry the target and #1 ranking in both PWR and USCHO poll. Lot's of hockey to play ,as the Cooler awaits Skidmore and avenging last year's tournament loss. Hobart has no easy game the rest of the way.

You know, I'd be fine with you dismissing my post in such a condescending way if you actually had some kind of point / counter-argument to make. It seems more likely that my point went right over your head. But, let's look at your post....

Hobart did not lose to Elmira because they were missing a few players and their coach. They smoked Elmira 7-0 Friday night with the same people missing. They lost that game on Saturday because they didn't show up ready to play 60 minutes.

Your second comment is great - glad to learn your preference on where the data and the polls place Hobart...but I'm not sure anyone cares what you would prefer?

Your third point lives somewhere in between banal cliches and "thanks Captain Obvious".

If you're wondering why nobody chimes in on your Hobart thread....it is likely because your posts are typically a public service announcement and/or you talking to yourself.

 

[Sir Nubs]

I never mentioned the stupid conference-tournament-champion-AQ thing. Was just talking about fair NCAA siting via the PW.

(And hey, a TON of us used to "shout at the clouds" re: the smoky room selection process. We were browbeaten by prescient folks such as yourself telling us it was an immutable fact, but then WHAMMO!, the PW actually replaced the system that existed for decades... Call me Pollyanna, but over time, sometimes actual logic finds a way.)

I'm an old man, but a true believer, and I'll b**** about the process until it makes sense. SOMEBODY has to light a candle in the dark.

Too bad you never went into athletic administration. Seems like selling toilet fixtures at Lowe's is a missed calling.

 

[Fishman'81]

Too bad you never went into athletic administration. Seems like selling toilet fixtures at Lowe's is a missed calling.

Look who's crawled out of her Mama's basement, now that SNC is on the verge of a bid!

Soooooo predictable.

 

[Sir Nubs]

Look who's crawled out of her Mama's basement, now that SNC is on the verge of a bid!

Soooooo predictable.

Nope. Unlike you, I don't spend all my time here every night while the ice cubes and spirits hit the tumbler.

You've also missed earlier posts about the UCHC being a terrible conference and perennial national power Utica 0-2-1 against common opponents with SNC who is 2-2.

 

[UCBadger]

What the heck is going on tonight? Fish and Nubs are at it again. One Hobart poster is sniping at the other Hobart poster. I checked, but it's a new moon and not a full moon tonight.

Perhaps everybody should just chill out and go make their picks in the 2023 D-III Tournament Pick'em Game. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[UCBadger]

Here's a "fun factoid"....for whatever it is worth.

Looking at the current top 25 teams in terms of PWR.....Hobart has a combined record of 8-1 against the top-25 teams. Utica is 2-2-1.

Yes, but Utica is undefeated and untied against the rest of the field, can Hobart say that? (hehehe)

or one could say:

Yes, but Utica is 6-2-1 against the top 27 teams....and Hobart is still just 8-1 (hahaha....oh wait)

 

[Russell Jaslow]

(And hey, a TON of us used to "shout at the clouds" re: the smoky room selection process. We were browbeaten by prescient folks such as yourself telling us it was an immutable fact, but then WHAMMO!, the PW actually replaced the system that existed for decades... Call me Pollyanna, but over time, sometimes actual logic finds a way.)

Hate to break it to you, but I was NOT one of those folks who accepted that. We explained the process so people could understand what was happening but I never accepted it.

But you keep living in your own delusional reality. Maybe some day the clouds will actually answer you.

 

[JSicedog]

You know, I'd be fine with you dismissing my post in such a condescending way if you actually had some kind of point / counter-argument to make. It seems more likely that my point went right over your head. But, let's look at your post....

Hobart did not lose to Elmira because they were missing a few players and their coach. They smoked Elmira 7-0 Friday night with the same people missing. They lost that game on Saturday because they didn't show up ready to play 60 minutes.

Your second comment is great - glad to learn your preference on where the data and the polls place Hobart...but I'm not sure anyone cares what you would prefer?

Your third point lives somewhere in between banal cliches and "thanks Captain Obvious".

If you're wondering why nobody chimes in on your Hobart thread....it is likely because your posts are typically a public service announcement and/or you talking to yourself.

Relax, his post wasn't condescending at all. Bartman is admittedly new here, and although I don't post in the Hobart thread I still follow it.