2023 D3 Bracketology

[Russell Jaslow]

Last I checked, we are not discussing D-1 hoops. Try to keep up.

D-3 hockey LOSES money on PS tournaments, by and large.

And that's what makes their existence (and moronic arguments in favor of them, such as yours) so asinine.

Once again, you totally missed the point of my post. Not surprising since your reading comprehension skills equate to a dead gnat.

 

[Pioneer247]

One scenario I'm looking at which would solve a lot of potential issues is Aurora winning the NCHA.

If Aurora wins the auto-bid, they are within 500 miles of both St. Scholastica/Augsburg and Eau-Claire/Stevens Point, and they would make a perfect pod of 3 with those two conference winners, leaving Adrian to either play Hobart in the QF round, or create a pod of Adrian/Hobart/Oswego, which would leave 2 byes for the East

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Even High Schools in New York have tournaments to determine the top team. First each Section determines a winner with a tournament and then they move on to the NYSPHSAA tournament to crown the state champion. Every sport at every level has a similar playoff system. You really need to move on because you seem to be the only one that doesn't like the playoff system as it is,

But does every team make it? I can't remember when my nephew's team made it to the basketball State final. But I do remember he played teams from other leagues in the Section V playoffs, but I don't remember every team from his league getting into the playoffs. But that was long enough ago I don't remember. Plus, there is the complication of each section designating leagues which may not correspond with the classes the State designates, so you can't just declare the regular season league champion as the team that goes to the State tournament because the league may consist of teams from different classes.

 

[spwood]

But does every team make it? I can't remember when my nephew's team made it to the basketball State final. But I do remember he played teams from other leagues in the Section V playoffs, but I don't remember every team from his league getting into the playoffs. But that was long enough ago I don't remember. Plus, there is the complication of each section designating leagues which may not correspond with the classes the State designates, so you can't just declare the regular season league champion as the team that goes to the State tournament because the league may consist of teams from different classes.

This is certainly the case upstate (Section VII)... the CVAC consists of Class B, C, and D teams.

 

[WCHornet]

This is certainly the case upstate (Section VII)... the CVAC consists of Class B, C, and D teams.

There is a state champion crowned for each class as there is in college for D1 and D3. (actually the D schools are in the MVAC in section 7) My granddaughter plays varsity hoop at Chazy and they are playing Seton Catholic in one of the class D section 7 semi-final games tonight. The sectional finals are at Clinton Community College this weekend for each class. The winners then move on to state competition. In November the final 4 for each class in soccer was held at Newburgh and Goshen high schools for the state championships. I am just saying how else could you crown state championships, there are about 80 class D schools alone spread across NYS.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

There is a state champion crowned for each class as there is in college for D1 and D3. (actually the D schools are in the MVAC in section 7) My granddaughter plays varsity hoop at Chazy and they are playing Seton Catholic in one of the class D section 7 semi-final games tonight. The sectional finals are at Clinton Community College this weekend for each class. The winners then move on to state competition. In November the final 4 for each class in soccer was held at Newburgh and Goshen high schools for the state championships. I am just saying how else could you crown state championships, there are about 80 class D schools alone spread across NYS.

I know there are sectional playoffs. I get that. I was asking if every team makes the sectional playoffs.

Plus, it is a little different because of the way the high school classes are spread out within the sections and the way the State has their classes setup. It's not always a one-to-one correlation. So, you just can't take the RS champion (Fishman's preference) because the second place team in the same league could be in another class (like the old ECAC West, when D2 and D3 were all mixed together), like spwood said is the case in CVAC. So, you have to have playoffs within each Section in order to fairly decide who makes the States. You don't necessarily have to do that in college, as the RS champion is just as valid as the playoff champion since in that league it's all the same class.

 

[spwood]

There is a state champion crowned for each class as there is in college for D1 and D3. (actually the D schools are in the MVAC in section 7) My granddaughter plays varsity hoop at Chazy and they are playing Seton Catholic in one of the class D section 7 semi-final games tonight. The sectional finals are at Clinton Community College this weekend for each class. The winners then move on to state competition. In November the final 4 for each class in soccer was held at Newburgh and Goshen high schools for the state championships. I am just saying how else could you crown state championships, there are about 80 class D schools alone spread across NYS.

There is no MVAC for volleyball... all of the schools play in the CVAC. Currently, the two Class D schools (NAC and Lake Placid) play a Sectional final match every year regardless of their record... I also believe there is no MVAC in football. Not sure about the other sports. I did know about the MVAC in sports like basketball, baseball, and softball. Again, I don't know how every sport works... I was actually agreeing with your explanation of things...

 

[WCHornet]

There is no MVAC for volleyball... all of the schools play in the CVAC. Currently, the two Class D schools (NAC and Lake Placid) play a Sectional final match every year regardless of their record... I also believe there is no MVAC in football. Not sure about the other sports. I did know about the MVAC in sports like basketball, baseball, and softball. Again, I don't know how every sport works... I was actually agreeing with your explanation of things...

I wasn't being a negative Nelly, I am just reinforcing the idea that tournaments are used in every level of sports. Also Russell, not every team makes the sectionals in every sport in all sections. Section 7 is very small in numbers for class C and B so all the teams make it for basketball. Most of the Ds do as well, but not all. I know in section 3 they do not all make the sectionals. We have no class A or AA schools in section 7. There are more D schools than B & C combined.

 

[ColdInRomney]

G2: It could be carried by an African swallow!
G1: Oh, yeah, an African swallow, maybe, but not a European swallow, that's my point.
G2: Oh, yeah, I agree with that. Arthur: (extremely exasperated) Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot!! (pause)
G1: But then of course, African swallows are non-migratory.
G2: Oh yeah... (Arthur and Patsy give up and trot away)
G1: So they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway.
G2: Wait a minute! Supposing *two* swallows carried it together!
G1: Nooo..... They'd have to have it on a line...
G2: Well, simple! They'd just use a strand of creeper!
G1: What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?
G2: Well, why not?

........ad infinitam.....

 

[Fishman'81]

Even High Schools in New York have tournaments to determine the top team. First each Section determines a winner with a tournament and then they move on to the NYSPHSAA tournament to crown the state champion. Every sport at every level has a similar playoff system. You really need to move on because you seem to be the only one that doesn't like the playoff system as it is,

Hornet, citing what NYS high school kids do really doesn't cut it as a logical argument... I don't care if the next World War is decided by a conference tournament AQ, it's still a dumb concept.

And, to salt the wound, D-3 hockey bleeds money on those sideshows, as well. A lose, lose deal.

How about the NCAA finds a better way to spend it? Say, flying National tournament teams to preserve bracket integrity, if need be?

(Yeah, that's insane.)

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Hornet, citing what NYS high school kids do really doesn't cut it as a logical argument... I don't care if the next World War is decided by a conference tournament AQ, it's still a dumb concept.

And, to salt the wound, D-3 hockey bleeds money on those sideshows, as well. A lose, lose deal.

How about the NCAA finds a better way to spend it? Say, flying National tournament teams to preserve bracket integrity, if need be?

(Yeah, that's insane.)

Funny thing is, the reason I was pushing back on WCHornet was because I didn't feel his analogy supported a counterpoint to you, due to the issue I cited concerning different classes in the same leagues in NYS sports. NYS has no choice but to use a playoff system to decide who makes it to the States, because in their case, the league RS champions don't really mean anything within the State class structure.

As to your last point in this post, you are comparing apples to oranges. Conference tournaments are paid by the conferences, not the NCAA. So any money spent or saved by conference tournaments cannot be translated to the NCAA and the money they spend or save on the national tournament.

Speaking of NCAA money, D3 will be getting more. The percentage remains the same, but due to the increase in TV rights fees (mainly for March Madness), the percentage now translates to more money since the pot is bigger. This takes place I believe in 2024 or 2025, whenever the new TV contracts kick in.

 

[Fishman'81]

Funny thing is, the reason I was pushing back on WCHornet was because I didn't feel his analogy supported a counterpoint to you, due to the issue I cited concerning different classes in the same leagues in NYS sports. NYS has no choice but to use a playoff system to decide who makes it to the States, because in their case, the league RS champions don't really mean anything within the State class structure.

As to your last point in this post, you are comparing apples to oranges. Conference tournaments are paid by the conferences, not the NCAA. So any money spent or saved by conference tournaments cannot be translated to the NCAA and the money they spend or save on the national tournament.

Speaking of NCAA money, D3 will be getting more. The percentage remains the same, but due to the increase in TV rights fees (mainly for March Madness), the percentage now translates to more money since the pot is bigger. This takes place I believe in 2024 or 2025, whenever the new TV contracts kick in.

Well, OK. I don't profess to know much about the finances... Still, with the NIL thing and the transfer portal (in D-1, where the actual money is) it's looking like the NCAA will lose it's footing as far as dictating the rules.

In fact, the NCAA might well be completely obviated very soon. It makes perfect sense for the schools themselves to sell March Madness to ESPN, and cut the NCAA out of the deal altogether, and there goes the greedy monster that it's been for decades.

In that case, D-3 hockey will have to go it alone, and get smarter re: where it spends it's money, such as it is. (And BS conference tournaments aren't the answer. It's going to be all about cutting losses.)

 

[UCBadger]

I'm sure posting this before the St. Scholastica game tonight won't backfire, but here it is

CCC: Endicott (3)
MASCAC: Plymouth State (7)
MIAC: St. Scholastica (T-22)
NCHA: Adrian (T-4)
NEHC: Hobart (T-1)
NESCAC: Amherst (17)
SUNYAC: Oswego (12)
UCHC: Utica (T-1*)
WIAC: Stevens Point (8)

At-Large:

Curry (T-4)
Plattsburgh (6)
UNE (9)

Round 1:

Oswego at Adrian
Amherst at Endicott
Plymouth at Curry
UNE at Plattsburgh

Quarterfinals:

UNE/Plattsburgh @ Utica
Oswego/Adrian @ Hobart
Plymouth/Curry @ Amherst/Endicott
St. Scholastica @ Stevens Point

Assuming no other important "upsets," does a Plattsburgh win put Norwich in as the last at-large team?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Assuming no other important "upsets," does a Plattsburgh win put Norwich in as the last at-large team?

Probably.

The only hesitation I have is you don't know how all those results will effect the PWR for everyone else. However, seeing who is left playing this weekend, I find it hard to believe there can be any results which would cause someone else to catch Norwich (or for Norwich to drop). Oswego can't, because they would have lost in this scenario. Babson is too far back. Eau Claire is the only one within range, but they would have lost in this scenario, though they would have lost to a higher ranked team, which can do odd things to your PWR, and they are only one back from Norwich.

So, Norwich fans will be praying for no upsets except in Oswego (which to me, wouldn't be an upset -- that's a pick 'em if I were setting lines).

 

[Bartman]

Probably.

The only hesitation I have is you don't know how all those results will effect the PWR for everyone else. However, seeing who is left playing this weekend, I find it hard to believe there can be any results which would cause someone else to catch Norwich (or for Norwich to drop). Oswego can't, because they would have lost in this scenario. Babson is too far back. Eau Claire is the only one within range, but they would have lost in this scenario, though they would have lost to a higher ranked team, which can do odd things to your PWR, and they are only one back from Norwich.

So, Norwich fans will be praying for no upsets except in Oswego (which to me, wouldn't be an upset -- that's a pick 'em if I were setting lines).

PWR changes quite significant as Endicott moves past Utica and Hobart is tied for second with Utica. Looks like Norwich got their Plattsburg victory and squeaked in.Looking forward to prediction for tournament.....NESCAC results crazy.

 

[UCBadger]

Things are changing........

(and Utica's game tonight has still not been added into the calculation at this time)

 

[WCHornet]

PWR changes quite significant as Endicott moves past Utica and Hobart is tied for second with Utica. Looks like Norwich got their Plattsburg victory and squeaked in.Looking forward to prediction for tournament.....NESCAC results crazy.

Things are changing........

(and Utica's game tonight has still not been added into the calculation at this time)

Just did !! Now Utica and Endicott tied at #1 with Utica RPI slightly higher

 

[Fishman'81]

Things are changing........

(and Utica's game tonight has still not been added into the calculation at this time)

Just did !! Now Utica and Endicott tied at #1 with Utica RPI slightly higher

The RPI is the tie-breaker.

What puzzles me is why Hobart dropped.

 

[UCBadger]

No, I don't think so, Tonight's Utica win has still not shown up. They are 25-2-1 and RPI and PWR still show 24-2-1

(Remember, I said things were changing....that movement you noticed is what I meant)

 

[Pioneer247]

So I have a bracket done assuming when Utica's win goes in, they will stay above Endicott in PWR...and there's going to be some angry Utica fans when they see who gets the byes