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2020 Patty Kazmaier

Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

ARM said:
... and then just quits on the play.... Would Badger fans rather have Roque standing in the crease before goal #2 and defending the shooter before goal #4? I would, but you watch them far more and are better informed.
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I don't think I'd say she 'quit' on the plays, at least in terms of effort. More made mistakes of inaction because of the 'lack of instinct' as to what to do in the moment, as you mention.

Watts logs a lot of time on the penalty kill; I assume that is because of her puck handling skills.

And slowly but surely, we're getting closer and closer to 'plus-minus'. I'm tellin' ya!

------------------

Adding, and anticipating how the plus-minus discussion will go, I'm wishing for something like a "plus/minus per ice minute over team average".

Where's the SABRmetric web site for DI women's hockey when you need it?
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

robertearle said:
.....
And slowly but surely, we're getting closer and closer to 'plus-minus'. I'm tellin' ya!
.....
Click to expand...

;)
Mueller +52-10=+42
Fillier +49-8=+41
Giguere +52-13=+39
Bourbonnais +41-4=+37
Roque +61-25=+36
Shirley +58-25=+35
Watts +59-27=+32
Maltais +56-32=+24

So the Patty Kaz goes to Mueller :).
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Reddington said:
I don't see Giguere getting it, to much Clarkson recently. I do not see Watts getting it because of the transfer factor. If she repeats these stats or close next year I can see her winning next year. This year will be a surprise.
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Not much analytics there, but a very interesting take, good things to talk about. Giguere and Watts are in the same class, so we'll have the same discussion next year as well. One gets it this year, the other will get it next year. I can see Watts getting it this year and then next year Giguere gets it as a lifetime achievement award like Coyne did in 2016 when clearly ARD or Carpenter (had 4 more pts than Coyne) should have won.

One other thing to consider is all the intangibles that go into this besides scoring, and since Watts has already demonstrated she has that covered plus the scoring she has to have a leg up since she already won once. Who were her linemates @ BC when she put up 82? Lonergan (75) and Newkirk (61)?

When she won in 17-18 here's how the points were: Watts 82 Lonergan 75 Gabel 75 Giguere 71

I think a 10 point gap from Watts to Giguere is too much to overcome. What has been the biggest point gap between the high scorer and a non-goalie winner?

Here's Watts this award is all about:

An award of The USA Hockey Foundation, the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award was established in 1998 and is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey. Other selection criteria include outstanding individual and team skills, sportsmanship, performance in the clutch, personal character, competitiveness and a love of hockey. Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

I will thrown in Mueller of Northeastern into the mix .
You can make a compelling case for either of these 3. There are statistics and then there are statisics that say what you want them to say. :)

I would have no issue with either of these 3 winning. Since I don't get a vote and nothing anyone says on this board should sway the voters opinion, it doesn't matter what we think.

An award of The USA Hockey Foundation, the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award was established in 1998 and is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey. Other selection criteria include

outstanding individual
----Goals
------Giguere 35 G/SOG .154
------Watts 24 G/SOG .149
------Mueller 23 G/SOG .126

and team skills,
----Assists
------Watts 49 (Plays with line mates that have scored 53 goals and are Patty Kaz top 10)
------Mueller 34 (Plays all year with Aurard/Fontaine 33 Goals)
------Giguere 28 (Due to Clarkson injuries has not played all year with the same linemates, Currently plays with Stoddard Jr (5G Career prior to this year) and McQuigg Fr 8 goals)

----PP Assists
------Watts 19
------Giguere 11
------Mueller 11

----Penalty Kill
------Giguere plays on the Clarkson #1 PK unit
------Watts?
------Mueller?

----Plus/Minus (Got to include that :) )
------Mueller +52-10=+42
------Giguere +52-13=+39
------Watts +59-27=+32

sportsmanship,
----Watts 2 Penalties
----Giguere 5 penalties
----Mueller 5 Penalties

performance in the clutch,
----Giguere 3 Shorties, 10 GWG,
----Mueller 3 Shorties, 9 GWG
----Watts 1 Shortie, 2 GWG

personal character,
----Giguere loses Patty Kaz Gabel and stays at CCT
----Mueller has no reason to leave Northeastern and does not
----Watts bails on BC after a sophomore year that her point total is 48 vs 82 previous year and BC fails to make FF


competitiveness and a love of hockey
----Watts wants a Natty and does not see it happening @ BC and bails on BC after a sophomore year that her point total is 48 vs 82
----Giguere loses Patty Kaz Gabel and stays at CCT
----Mueller has no reason to leave Northeastern and does not

Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement.
----No clue here but based on past, stats are what matters.
 
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vicb said:
;)
Mueller +52-10=+42
Fillier +49-8=+41
Giguere +52-13=+39
Bourbonnais +41-4=+37
Roque +61-25=+36
Shirley +58-25=+35
Watts +59-27=+32
Maltais +56-32=+24

So the Patty Kaz goes to Mueller :).
Click to expand...

Did Gebhardt not get nominated or is she just not being listed above because she has had a very good year also.
?
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Timothy A said:
I can see Watts getting it this year and then next year Giguere gets it as a lifetime achievement award like Coyne did in 2016 when clearly ARD or Carpenter (had 4 more pts than Coyne) should have won.
Click to expand...
Carpenter had 4 more points in 4 more games, so Coyne had the higher scoring average. The argument for Carpenter would have been that BC was having a perfect season. Coyne was leading Northeastern to its first NCAA tournament, and doing it with a lot less help than Carpenter had. By the time players are seniors, there are more committee members that have coached against them or at least gotten to watch them play somewhere, like a national team if nothing else. Coyne was electrifying, both with her speed and what she could accomplish at top speed. Brandt was also a senior that year, and had she been healthy, maybe the entirety of her career might have come into play in her candidacy (285 pts despite being hampered her senior year), but she didn't have a big enough season to realistically contend. I was on the committee in 2016, and I don't remember the conversation being in doubt. The neutral Hockey East and ECAC coaches thought she was the best player, and based on what she has done with the national team, I think that reputation was deserved.


vicb said:
performance in the clutch,
Click to expand...
I think this is where Giguere's career achievement really enters into it. On the biggest college stage, she's played in five NCAA Tournament games. Her team was shut out in the fifth, but the first four were OT wins for the Golden Knights, and she scored three of the sudden-death goals and made the play to set up the fourth. I don't remember anyone else coming close to something like that in a career, let alone her first two years. It is similar to what Jessie Vetter did in the NCAA Tournament in her career at the other end of the nice. I get that it isn't from this season, but it goes a long way to cementing Giguere's reputation as a clutch player.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

TonyTheTiger20 said:
It was sometimes Lonergan and sometimes Newkirk centering her line. Newkirk and Lonergan were both centers, so it was never all three of them on the same line in the same game.
Click to expand...
I remember Watts being with Lonergan more often than not that season. Were the three together on a PP unit at some point?
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Interesting read on the Wednesday women about the Patty Kaz

"All that is a long way to get to the point that while Abby Roque is a more well-rounded player that’s more vital to Wisconsin than Watts is, I’m not sure how many people on the committee know that. A lot of how the three Wisconsin players end up ranked will depend on who’s representing the WCHA and how that person decides to talk about the nominated players. "

"I think playing with Team USA this year and getting named to their World Championship roster on Tuesday certainly helps people understand that Roque has value beyond her point total"

"While Browning’s numbers are better, I feel like there’s an argument about Frankel being more important to her team’s success with a less talented defense in front of her than Browning has. If we see a goalie make the top three, I’m not sure we can assume it’ll be Browning."

"The votes also usually tend to follow the individual conference awards. I think the logic is that those are voted on by the people who see those players the most, so the choices hold a lot of sway with the committee members who don’t have that opportunity. And no one wants to put forward a player that their own league thinks isn’t the best or snub someone who does win those awards. "

That last statement if true could have a profound effect on Giguere's or Watt's chances. If the ECAC coaches vote Fillier or Browning or even Bourbonnaise as the Player of the Year (All of them are worthy in their own right for the seasons they have had) then Giguere probably does not win the Kaz. If Roque wins POY in the WCHA then Watts probably does not win the Kaz.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

ARM said:
I remember Watts being with Lonergan more often than not that season. Were the three together on a PP unit at some point?
Click to expand...
I honestly can't remember, but I don't think so. I know they were all on the 6 player Hero Line for when the goalie was pulled, but that's it.

I agree, I also think it was Lonergan that was Watts for the bulk of the season.
 
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