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2020 Patty Kazmaier

Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

How long is a long shot ? ;)

Harvard 6
Wisconsin 5
Clarkson 3
Minnesota 2
Boston College 2
Northeastern 2
Brown 1
Mercyhurst 1
U of New Hampshire 1

And if you want to pick nits and note that Jennifer Botterill won the award twice, that would mean Harvard really only had five award winners. You're welcome. :D
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

And if you want to pick nits and note that Jennifer Botterill won the award twice, that would mean Harvard really only had five award winners. You're welcome. :D

A belated "Thank you". ;) I stand corrected and give you:

Harvard 5
Wisconsin 5
Clarkson 3
Minnesota 2
Boston College 2
Northeastern 2
Brown 1
Mercyhurst 1
U of New Hampshire 1

Eh, Wisconsin doesn't even have the most Patty Kaz winners. Not by a long shot.


So the "long shot" is a loser or winner? :D
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Not that they're comparable, but do I have this correct? Of the teams with different Kaz winners and national championships it's Harvard 5 and 1, Wisconsin 5 and 5, Clarkson 3 and 3, Minnesota 2 and 7 and New Hampshire 1 and 1. Seems to me there's one team that maybe should have had a couple more winners over the years. And I know, I know it's a team sport and the two years the Gophers won any one of the five Gopher finalists was worthy of the award.
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Not that they're comparable, but do I have this correct? Of the teams with different Kaz winners and national championships it's Harvard 5 and 1, Wisconsin 5 and 5, Clarkson 3 and 3, Minnesota 2 and 7 and New Hampshire 1 and 1. Seems to me there's one team that maybe should have had a couple more winners over the years. And I know, I know it's a team sport and the two years the Gophers won any one of the five Gopher finalists was worthy of the award.

If you include the AWCHA Champs* from 1998-2000 then yes the totals for each are:

Team - Patty Kaz & NC$$ or AWCHA* Champs
Harvard 5 & 1*
Wisconsin 5 & 5
Clarkson 3 & 3
Minnesota 2 & 6+1*
Boston College 2 & 0
Northeastern 2 & 0
Brown 1 & 0
Mercyhurst 1 & 0
U of New Hampshire 1 & 1*


:)
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

Not that they're comparable, but do I have this correct? Of the teams with different Kaz winners and national championships it's Harvard 5 and 1, Wisconsin 5 and 5, Clarkson 3 and 3, Minnesota 2 and 7 and New Hampshire 1 and 1. Seems to me there's one team that maybe should have had a couple more winners over the years. And I know, I know it's a team sport and the two years the Gophers won any one of the five Gopher finalists was worthy of the award.

This is not a very good approach, as there is a big difference between individual success and team success. A lot of the Minnesota titles have come from huge depth; a third line that is really great is more likely to result in a national championship than it is a Patty Kazmeier. And, in the years of Gopher championships I was around for, I don't think that they had the single best player in the country. When it comes to Gopher players who I think got robbed of the Kaz, the most salient instance was 2013, when the wrong Gopher got the award. I thought that Megan Bozek was pretty clearly both the best and most important player on the team.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

This is not a very good approach, as there is a big difference between individual success and team success. A lot of the Minnesota titles have come from huge depth; a third line that is really great is more likely to result in a national championship than it is a Patty Kazmeier. And, in the years of Gopher championships I was around for, I don't think that they had the single best player in the country. When it comes to Gopher players who I think got robbed of the Kaz, the most salient instance was 2013, when the wrong Gopher got the award. I thought that Megan Bozek was pretty clearly both the best and most important player on the team.

I agree and realized when I wrote it that it wasn't a good approach. Megan Bozek was amazing and she is my all-time favorite player in watching the Gophers since they opened the doors at Ridder. In 2013 I thought any one of the three deserved it and in 2005 it was a coin flip, but in thinking back as far as importance to the team goes Kelly Stephens was right there.
 
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

In 2004, I thought that Krissy was the most dominant player in the country, but as a two-time Olympian, Ruggiero had a greater reputation.

As for a program that was undervalued by the Kazmaier voters, UMD didn't get much love. IMO, Martin was the best player in 2008 and Blais was in 2010, but the timing of the award worked against both.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

I wasn't a Mercyhurst fan (not that there's anything wrong with that), but I always thought Meghan Agosta was robbed. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I don't know if there are any other four-time finalists who never won the award.
 
I wasn't a Mercyhurst fan (not that there's anything wrong with that), but I always thought Meghan Agosta was robbed. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I don't know if there are any other four-time finalists who never won the award.

Yes, robbed. I think there’s a lag in PK recognition. In 2009 she took Hurst to a national championship game, prob should have won it that year. Next year was an Olympic year, and it’s not surprising (because of how good they were and past year success) that Vicki Bendus of Hurst won it. If it wasn’t an Olympic year maybe Agosta would have won it then. In Agosta’s senior year she may have been hurt by the fact that she was gone year before, Hurst had most recent winner, and boy was that Wisconsin team loaded with talent, not to mention Poulin was around then too so just tons of great players to compete against. Agosta does sit atop the record books for most NCAA points which is a pretty special honor in itself, even if no PK award.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

I think there were a number of factors working against Agosta. One of the things that I learned from serving on the selection committee is that it matters what other coaches in the candidate's league say about her. Agosta played in a CHA that had four teams her first two seasons and five teams the last couple, so there were typically fewer people on the committee from her league that would lobby for her.

In 2007, Julie Chu won. She was a two-time Olympian, had a reputation as a one of the best two-way forwards around, and finished with a higher Points Per Game average. And had Sara Bauer not been injured that year, maybe she goes back to back. It was a big ask to expect a freshman to win over those two seniors.

In 2008, the Kaz went to Sarah Vaillancourt, which IMO, was a bit of a reach, but it shows the clout that being the best player in the ECAC has often had. Agosta wasn't the PPG leader that year. Melissa Boal of Wayne State had more PPG and points overall, and was the only player to average more than two points per game. I think that hurt Agosta's case that year, in that she didn't dominate her league in terms of production. Anyway, had I been voting that year, I would have voted for Kim Martin, but there was a shadow of suspicion over UMD's season.

By the time Agosta led the Lakers to the final in 2009, the voting was long over. If Wisconsin was loaded in 2011, it was even more loaded in 2009. Agosta led the country in PPG, but Hilary Knight wound up with more points. If there was ever a winner based on career, it was Jessie Vetter. She had a great season, leading in both Save % and GAA. But by the time of the voting, she had backed her team to three straight finals. She lost the third, her only NCAA Tournament loss. She won another championship as a senior, shutting out Agosta and the Lakers. In her three championship runs, she only allowed one goal total in the three games each time. I don't think we'll ever see her equal in the NCAA at crunch time.

As for 2011 and Duggan, I think that Agosta has gone on to have the better career post-NCAA. She is similar to Poulin, who didn't have as much success as someone like Carpenter, but has been better internationally. I watched Duggan and Agosta play head-to-head in St. Cloud, of all places, in 2011. Agosta was a great offensive player, but she rarely ventured below the top of the circles in her own zone. Duggan controlled that game all over the ice. They both came away with a goal and an assist, but Duggan was a +2, Agosta was a -2, and I thought that was pretty indicative of how that matchup went. To be fair, Duggan had Knight and Decker, and although that was probably the Lakers' most talented roster, they couldn't match up with that line. Overall, it was similar to a comparison of Roque and Watts today. Watts is the better offensive player, but in an NCAA game, Roque does a lot more.

Agosta could have won a Kaz at some point, but it never worked out for her. The two players who are tied for second behind her in career points, JLam and Brandt, never won a Kaz either, and an argument could be made that they played in tougher leagues. It's always going to be tough to win any award that has one winner every year.
 
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier

If there was ever a winner based on career, it was Jessie Vetter. She had a great season, leading in both Save % and GAA. But by the time of the voting, she had backed her team to three straight finals. She lost the third, her only NCAA Tournament loss. She won another championship as a senior, shutting out Agosta and the Lakers. In her three championship runs, she only allowed one goal total in the three games each time. I don't think we'll ever see her equal in the NCAA at crunch time.

She allowed four goals in the 2008 championship, which was a bit of a surprise, but now I'm picking nits. I agree that she more than earned the award. She was my favorite goaltender on an opposing team, both for her skills and for her sportsmanship. She was a fierce competitor and always a class act, win or lose.
 
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