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2020 Patty Kazmaier
- Thread starter Timothy A
- Start date
thirdtime's . . .
New member
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
I knew he was suspiciously quite in this discussion, considering the Watts factor. It must be killing him not be really be part of the discussion. At least I did a thread to keep him updated on Watts just in case he would forget about her.
I am shocked the PK group would call an obscure blogger into their voting group. Are they that desperate? Maybe they need to increase the term length to be a voter, obviously they have practically run out of people to ask.
Is pokechecker next?
When does vote happen, or did it already? I need to know when I should be working at work instead of stumping for Watts. And for the record, I'm stumping for Watts instead of Roque because I think the points gap back to Roque from Watts is too large to overlook. I hope to look into those numbers historically at some point and prove myself right or wrong. At this point it is just a theory.
And I did 2017 and 2018.
You're very own TTT is on the committee this year, so take his comments with extra salt
I knew he was suspiciously quite in this discussion, considering the Watts factor. It must be killing him not be really be part of the discussion. At least I did a thread to keep him updated on Watts just in case he would forget about her.
I am shocked the PK group would call an obscure blogger into their voting group. Are they that desperate? Maybe they need to increase the term length to be a voter, obviously they have practically run out of people to ask.
Is pokechecker next?When does vote happen, or did it already? I need to know when I should be working at work instead of stumping for Watts. And for the record, I'm stumping for Watts instead of Roque because I think the points gap back to Roque from Watts is too large to overlook. I hope to look into those numbers historically at some point and prove myself right or wrong. At this point it is just a theory.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
The vast majority of women's hockey coverage is by bloggers and freelancers. The person I replaced on the committee was the EIC of The Ice Garden; I'm the women's hockey editor from a different SB Nation site. The decline of traditional media has really just given a rise to a platform that gives richer coverage of relatively niche topics like women's hockey. I think it's pretty forward-thinking of the committee that they are actually making an effort to pick people who truly care about the sport.
So, anyway, it's flattering, I'm obviously beyond honored to have been put on the committee, but I'm guessing the Pairwise calculators (I get DM'd by coaches and stuff all the time about these) and national stuff I write (I don't just do BC previews/recaps) gives them the idea that I'm at least paying close attention to the sport.
I was a part of the real discussion on Monday
Even if you're just teasing, this is a fair question to pose. In fairness -- who is out there you'd pick? Relatively speaking, everyone in the world of women's hockey media is obscure. After the NMH's and ARM's and Candace's out there, they'd be better off picking half the people in this forum over someone from the Boise Courier-Post or whatever who only gets thrown on the beat for the Olympics.I am shocked the PK group would call an obscure blogger into their voting group. Are they that desperate? Maybe they need to increase the term length to be a voter, obviously they have practically run out of people to ask.
The vast majority of women's hockey coverage is by bloggers and freelancers. The person I replaced on the committee was the EIC of The Ice Garden; I'm the women's hockey editor from a different SB Nation site. The decline of traditional media has really just given a rise to a platform that gives richer coverage of relatively niche topics like women's hockey. I think it's pretty forward-thinking of the committee that they are actually making an effort to pick people who truly care about the sport.
So, anyway, it's flattering, I'm obviously beyond honored to have been put on the committee, but I'm guessing the Pairwise calculators (I get DM'd by coaches and stuff all the time about these) and national stuff I write (I don't just do BC previews/recaps) gives them the idea that I'm at least paying close attention to the sport.
The conference call was Monday morning.
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Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
I will preface this by saying Gabel was a great choice to win last year.
But I wonder if her 2 championships won in the two prior years helped her with the voters (I wouldn’t care if it did). I think Roque’s play this year plus her championship last year plus being on Team USA and playing well might help her win it this year.
I REALLY wish Gebhard made top ten. I haven’t studied the line up like some of you but my gut says Gebhard belongs there. She didn’t miss a beat when the always over looked Howard graduated, she either is or is very close to being the all time points leader at RMU, and she doesn’t play with same offensively gifted players some of these others players do. 5th in ppg in the nation last time I looked.
I will preface this by saying Gabel was a great choice to win last year.
But I wonder if her 2 championships won in the two prior years helped her with the voters (I wouldn’t care if it did). I think Roque’s play this year plus her championship last year plus being on Team USA and playing well might help her win it this year.
I REALLY wish Gebhard made top ten. I haven’t studied the line up like some of you but my gut says Gebhard belongs there. She didn’t miss a beat when the always over looked Howard graduated, she either is or is very close to being the all time points leader at RMU, and she doesn’t play with same offensively gifted players some of these others players do. 5th in ppg in the nation last time I looked.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Just curious: did the 'responsibility' cause you to (try to) watch more hockey, more games or a wider variety of games and teams than you would normally do?
(As for 'who else?': as for myself, I know I am not remotely qualified for such a thing; I see a ton of UW games and essentially nothing else. I wouldn't be qualified to vote on a WCHA 'first string' team, much less voice an opinion on HE or ECAC, etc. Yeah, I have posted about UW players on this thread, but that's just 'homer' advocacy; other than looking at stats, I really have no clue as to who "should" be the winner, or even the finalists.)
I was a part of the real discussion on Monday
Just curious: did the 'responsibility' cause you to (try to) watch more hockey, more games or a wider variety of games and teams than you would normally do?
(As for 'who else?': as for myself, I know I am not remotely qualified for such a thing; I see a ton of UW games and essentially nothing else. I wouldn't be qualified to vote on a WCHA 'first string' team, much less voice an opinion on HE or ECAC, etc. Yeah, I have posted about UW players on this thread, but that's just 'homer' advocacy; other than looking at stats, I really have no clue as to who "should" be the winner, or even the finalists.)
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
I agree about Gebhard being left off the top ten. Only issue is who does she replace? Watts . She has had a great career and a great season.
I agree about Gebhard being left off the top ten. Only issue is who does she replace? Watts
. She has had a great career and a great season.On some level this is why I don’t think programs should be shy about putting a ton of content about there stars out there on social media, especially if your Star is on a team not winning national championships. It’s not really the fault of the voters that coverage is what it is . I said this last year but Watts and Coyne both played for programs that have their act together as far as making their product accessible and sharing highlights. I suspect that helps make their case even though it has nothing to do with hockey.
And it’s an argument for putting out full game highlights not just your teams goals for, as was recently discussed. But I get that teams have varying resources.
I think you are underselling your worthiness to vote in wcha awards. Gabriela Fundaro is another media person that is an obvious person to have on the selection committee at some point.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Yes I am just teasing T3, it's pretty cool that he has this opportunity. The sport is so regional and undercovered that it's really impossible to fairly pick a winner. Stats are great and all, but the eye test should be the deciding factor, and that is totally impossible.
So the winner has been decided, there is really no point to discuss any further. Now it's getting ready to criticize the choice. :O
If we are picking the best skater for the PK, Shirley wins hand down. I have never seen such an effortless stride. Some players look like they are shaving ice for gelato out there (and are fast), but she is just the opposite.
Yes I am just teasing T3, it's pretty cool that he has this opportunity. The sport is so regional and undercovered that it's really impossible to fairly pick a winner. Stats are great and all, but the eye test should be the deciding factor, and that is totally impossible.
So the winner has been decided, there is really no point to discuss any further. Now it's getting ready to criticize the choice. :O
If we are picking the best skater for the PK, Shirley wins hand down. I have never seen such an effortless stride. Some players look like they are shaving ice for gelato out there (and are fast), but she is just the opposite.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Looking at the last 9 times of non goalie PK wins, no one has won the PK without being in the top 2 in scoring. The 2 times 2nd place won the deficit to the leading scorer was 4 points. The gap from Watts to Giguere is 10 points. There is no other reasonable thing to think other Watts won again. I'm sure the PK Committee was well award of this fact. It would be unprecedented to give it to Giguere or anyone else for that fact this year.
Looking at the last 9 times of non goalie PK wins, no one has won the PK without being in the top 2 in scoring. The 2 times 2nd place won the deficit to the leading scorer was 4 points. The gap from Watts to Giguere is 10 points. There is no other reasonable thing to think other Watts won again. I'm sure the PK Committee was well award of this fact. It would be unprecedented to give it to Giguere or anyone else for that fact this year.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
If this becomes the thinking going forward, then I'd suggest coaches who have Kaz-worthy players schedule a lot of games against Lindenwood and LIU, because apparently, all points are created equally.
I understand what you're saying, but then why have a 13-member committee? Why not just have one person pull up some stats and give it to the person with the most points?
If this becomes the thinking going forward, then I'd suggest coaches who have Kaz-worthy players schedule a lot of games against Lindenwood and LIU, because apparently, all points are created equally.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
(Compelled to point out that...)
Besides the fact that Giguere also played two games against Lindenwood, she played four games against teams with *lower* RPIs than either LIU or Lindenwood. (And an additional four games against teams with RPI higher than Lindenwood but lower than LIU.)
Watts - Lindenwood, two games, 4 points
LIU, two games, 7 points
Giguere - Lindenwood, two games 4 points
Brown, two games, 7 points
Rensselaer, two games, 5 points
... schedule a lot of games against Lindenwood and LIU, because apparently, all points are created equally.
(Compelled to point out that...)
Besides the fact that Giguere also played two games against Lindenwood, she played four games against teams with *lower* RPIs than either LIU or Lindenwood. (And an additional four games against teams with RPI higher than Lindenwood but lower than LIU.)
Watts - Lindenwood, two games, 4 points
LIU, two games, 7 points
Giguere - Lindenwood, two games 4 points
Brown, two games, 7 points
Rensselaer, two games, 5 points
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Wisconsin 'strength of schedule' by RPI - 4th
Clarkson 'strength of schedule' by RPI - 24th
Wisconsin 'strength of schedule' by RPI - 4th
Clarkson 'strength of schedule' by RPI - 24th
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
And could you fill us all in on the RPI's of CCT and Wisconsin last year and the PK result.
If Watts wins, congrats to her, well deserved.
If anyone else wins, congrats to whoever else it is, well deserved.
The committee has decided so that is all I have to say.
And could you fill us all in on the RPI's of CCT and Wisconsin last year and the PK result.
If Watts wins, congrats to her, well deserved.
If anyone else wins, congrats to whoever else it is, well deserved.
The committee has decided so that is all I have to say.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
"And could you fill us all in on the RPI's of CCT and Wisconsin last year and the PK result."
Probably (though it might take some digging).
What would be the point?
"And could you fill us all in on the RPI's of CCT and Wisconsin last year and the PK result."
Probably (though it might take some digging).
What would be the point?
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Pardon me if I am wrong but the same point that I think you are trying to make with this years RPI? Watts stats are more decisive vs Giguere's due to SOS. Correct?
Last year I guess Gabel did not deserve to win over Pankowski due to Wisco playing a toughter SOS?? Just wondering.
Pardon me if I am wrong but the same point that I think you are trying to make with this years RPI? Watts stats are more decisive vs Giguere's due to SOS. Correct?
Last year I guess Gabel did not deserve to win over Pankowski due to Wisco playing a toughter SOS?? Just wondering.
Reddington
Well-known member
Pardon me if I am wrong but the same point that I think you are trying to make with this years RPI? Watts stats are more decisive vs Giguere's due to SOS. Correct?
Last year I guess Gabel did not deserve to win over Pankowski due to Wisco playing a toughter SOS?? Just wondering.
Going to be the Cornell D is my prediction!
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
It was one of two responses to Arlen pointing out that Watts had played series against LIU and Lindenwood, and "all points are created equal", etc. I responded in the first that Giguere had played series against opponents just as "weak" and weaker. And as an afterthought, included their relative strength of schedules, as a sort of "you are right, not all points are created equal... And Watts' points might well have been harder to come by".
I see that I didn't 'reply with quote' the second time. Sorry if that contributed to any confusion, etc.
Gabel vs Pankowski helps make Tim's point that the Kaz winner is almost always the points leader; and when not, the difference between the winner and the points leader is much smaller than the gap would be this year.
Pardon me if I am wrong but the same point that I think you are trying to make with this years RPI? Watts stats are more decisive vs Giguere's due to SOS. Correct?
Last year I guess Gabel did not deserve to win over Pankowski due to Wisco playing a toughter SOS?? Just wondering.
It was one of two responses to Arlen pointing out that Watts had played series against LIU and Lindenwood, and "all points are created equal", etc. I responded in the first that Giguere had played series against opponents just as "weak" and weaker. And as an afterthought, included their relative strength of schedules, as a sort of "you are right, not all points are created equal... And Watts' points might well have been harder to come by".
I see that I didn't 'reply with quote' the second time. Sorry if that contributed to any confusion, etc.
Gabel vs Pankowski helps make Tim's point that the Kaz winner is almost always the points leader; and when not, the difference between the winner and the points leader is much smaller than the gap would be this year.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: 2020 Patty Kazmaier
Gabel deserved it over Pankowski last year, 73 pts vs 50, slam dunk win over Pankowski. In Watt's case she has played a tougher schedule by far and scored more points. Slam dunk Watts.
Last year I guess Gabel did not deserve to win over Pankowski due to Wisco playing a toughter SOS?? Just wondering.
Gabel deserved it over Pankowski last year, 73 pts vs 50, slam dunk win over Pankowski. In Watt's case she has played a tougher schedule by far and scored more points. Slam dunk Watts.