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2012 Women's Worlds

Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

dave1381 said:
So yes, I think it's appropriate to say that threatening athletes to cut their sport for lack of parity is a philosophy more fitting of the Hunger Games than the Olympics. The Olympic motto is "swifter, faster, stronger" not "swifter, faster, stronger, but not so swift/fast/string OR ELSE." More people should find this to be totally unacceptable from the IOC. More people should be condemning the media who choose not to call out the IOC. Instead the media writes about how tragic it is that athletes could be victims of their own success, and that's just the way the world works. It only works that way if the IOC chooses not to give these women's sports the same chance to grow that a sport like men's hockey once received.
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Me thinks the IOC is a Euro-Centric organization, and the fact that the two run-away front runners are both from NA is not helping matters a great deal. If it were the Swedes and the Russians running away at the top, you may not get that IOC presurred message. Food for thought.
 
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Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

OnMAA said:
Me thinks the IOC is a Euro-Centric organization
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I agree that this is true from the perspective of sport. But only from the perspective of sport.

The IOC is NOT primarily a sport organization, it is primarily a BUSINESS organization.

The whole X-games sports extravaganza, free style ski, snow board, all of that is clearly for North American TV. Euros love the traditional Nordic sports, I believe that the largest TV audience in Europe is for the men's 4x10 cross country relay. Any Euros tuned in to watch the free style snow board gold medal performance by Shawn White are bonus viewers.

The North American TV contracts pay the largest share towards total Olympic TV revenue. The North American TV audience (and the NBC TV contract) is the largest force driving the Olympics. The non-traditional sports (x-games and short track speed skating) have achieved Olympic sport status because North Americans (mostly USA) will tune in. It is all, totally, about whether you can get people to watch.

There is strong history indicating that North Americans will watch men's Olympic hockey. That means that there will have to be an arena for that event. If there is an arena for that event there will be a venue for women's hockey.

It's just business. Follow the money.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

ManBehindTheCurtain said:
I agree that this is true from the perspective of sport. But only from the perspective of sport.

The IOC is NOT primarily a sport organization, it is primarily a BUSINESS organization.

The whole X-games sports extravaganza, free style ski, snow board, all of that is clearly for North American TV. Euros love the traditional Nordic sports, I believe that the largest TV audience in Europe is for the men's 4x10 cross country relay. Any Euros tuned in to watch the free style snow board gold medal performance by Shawn White are bonus viewers.

The North American TV contracts pay the largest share towards total Olympic TV revenue. The North American TV audience (and the NBC TV contract) is the largest force driving the Olympics. The non-traditional sports (x-games and short track speed skating) have achieved Olympic sport status because North Americans (mostly USA) will tune in. It is all, totally, about whether you can get people to watch.

There is strong history indicating that North Americans will watch men's Olympic hockey. That means that there will have to be an arena for that event. If there is an arena for that event there will be a venue for women's hockey.

It's just business. Follow the money.
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I agree with everything you say. As long as the men's game is profitable to the IOC the women's game will probably ride the men's coattails. However, I hope that the women's game gets more competitive. Right now its pretty much a two team competition. The Worlds would be more competitive if the US and Canada had multiple teams. The rest of the world's teams have a long way to go. I just don't know how it will get better. European women playing in the States and Canada will help but I suspect women's hockey in Europe will always be second rate. As you say, "follow the money". The men have careers in the NHL to pursue but there isn't any money for the women to chase as an incentive.
 
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Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

SlewFoot said:
I agree with everything you say. As long as the men's game is profitable to the IOC the women's game will probably ride the men's coattails. However, I hope that the women's game gets more competitive. Right now its pretty much a two team competition. The Worlds would be more competitive if the US and Canada had multiple teams. The rest of the world's teams have a long way to go. I just don't know how it will get better. European women playing in the States and Canada will help but I suspect women's hockey in Europe will always be second rate.
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I also agree with a most of the points that both you and ManbehindtheCurtain brought up. It is a multidimensional problem for sure. But I think you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence...

SlewFoot said:
The men have careers in the NHL to pursue but there isn't any money for the women to chase as an incentive.
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IMHO that is one of the key challenges to address to enable and/or sustain growth/survivability/longevity at the international level. If you cannot solve that problem, the elite pool of senior players will stay small.

It takes a lot of sacrifices for those beyond college age to keep playing at the elite level. Not sure how you can solve that problem. The NWHL/CHWL/WWHL concept has so far not lived up to its early promises, and not so sure if it ever will or can. Sad to say, but the reality is that Women’s hockey will remain an amateur sport, except for a chosen few who can get some sponsorship dollars out of it. The only others to stay in the game and make a career of it are the college coaches, and that is a limited pool to start off with. Like any Amateur sport, you are then left with those who stay at the high level, purely for the love of the game, and sacrificing both career opportunities or starting a family. It’s a tough choice to make. Too bad, as the “glory years” of a hockey player are typically from age 22-28.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

I neglected to mention another reason baseball was cut -- it was a 2nd-rate competition that no one watched. Because of MLB obligations, so only Cuba & maybe a few Asian countries were able to field anything close to their best. If MLB had followed the NHL's, clearly things would be different for Olympic baseball & softball.

When neither baseball or softball are bringing in lots of N.A. TV viewers, then you're left with the only benefits of having the sport going to the non-Euro countries winning medals, and then the worst costs being borne by Euro hosts who need to build the stadiums. So that unique set of circumstances led to the sports being cut.

While MBTC is right that it's a business, part of being a business is building a brand image. If you had to imagine the worst-case scenario for women's hockey, it's that the IOC decides the lack of parity in women's hockey does so much damage to the Olympic brand -- and this idea gets propagated by the western journalists who are bored covering the sport -- that it decides the costs to diluting its brand are outweigh the benefits of filling empty rinks on men's hockey off days. So while I can buy that argument that Jacques Rogge is making empty threats, there is a threat from the bad press that women's hockey receives.

Now I believe that it's ridiculous for the IOC to drop women's hockey to improve its brand: an important part of the Olympic brand is that it's the highest form of competition for men and women. Pure competition and gender equity are important Olympic values. As I've said, if you cut women's hockey for lack of parity, you're punishing female athletes in a way that male athletes were never punished, and you're not providing a women's version of the highest-profile men's team sport in the Winter Olympics. I think the damage from dropping women's hockey to Olympic values is worse than any gain from dropping a sport with a lack of parity. I wish journalists would make that point. I hope the IOC would feel the same way, despite what Rogge has said.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

SlewFoot said:
European women playing in the States and Canada will help but I suspect women's hockey in Europe will always be second rate. As you say, "follow the money". The men have careers in the NHL to pursue but there isn't any money for the women to chase as an incentive.
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The irony here is that some North American women do play hockey in Europe after their college careers are over. There isn't a lot of money to be made, but enough that the occasional young lady can make it work for a year or two for the cultural experience. Unless subsidized by a national team, the that's tough to do in North America without having another career on the side.

Even in a sport like basketball that has the WNBA, female stars commonly play professionally in Europe during the offseason in order to make enough to pursue basketball full time.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

SlewFoot said:
I'm thinking that the popularity of men's hockey will save the women's game.
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Yes.
However, if the present state of women's hockey had to stand on its own I don't think it could be saved.
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I agree, so good thing it doesn't, because we saw what happened to softball. Thankfully men's hockey in the Olympics isn't going anywhere. Good thing the NHL stepped up in 1998.

The game has to be stronger to stand on its own to be protected. I also think tossing out the gender card is inappropriate and counterproductive. If it was a popular women's sport and the IOC threatened to drop the sport then I think the gender issue would be an appropriate complaint but it is clear that there are serious problems with this sport that have to be fixed (e.g. lack of competition and public interest).
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Most Olympic sports lack parity and lack public interest, and the situation would be even worse if these sports weren't in the Olympics. Is the worldwide distrubition of registered hockey players a whole lot different from the worldwide distribution for the biathlon, or a fairer comparison, biathlon in its 14th year as an Olympic sport?

Public interest isn't exogenous to the level of Olympic support. If the Olympics gave men's hockey three decades of lousy competition to grow the sport internationally, then it's not consistent with the Olympic ideal to give women's hockey the same respect. Being fair to both genders matters for the Olympic brand, which matters for its business. If the Olympics doesn't have its brand, then it's just another sporting event on TV.

The criterion for conclusion in the Olympics also depends on winter vs. summer. The Summer schedule is very crowded. Winter is much less crowded. The only winter team sports are hockey & curling. The standard for inclusion is much lower than the summer games.

We're almost to the point where we're only repeating ourselves, so probably time to move on. Still a good discussion to have though.
 
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Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

Mostly off topic news from today, but still relevant to the overall competency of the Olympics:

Organizers of the London Olympics approached the Who's manager to inquire about having Keith Moon play at an Olympics event despite the drummer being dead for nearly 34 years, the Sunday Times reports.

"I emailed back saying Keith now resides in Golders Green crematorium, having lived up to the Who's anthemic line 'I hope I die before I get old'," the band's longtime manager, Bill Curbishley, told the Times. "If they have a round table, some glasses and candles, we might contact him."

Moon died in 1978 at the age of 32 from an an accidental overdose of prescription pills. The Olympics organizers wanted the late drummer to take part in the Symphony of Rock, a celebration of British pop culture that will be part of the Games' closing ceremony on August 12th.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...-play-closing-ceremony-20120413#ixzz1rwYiI8Hi
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Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

Swiss netminder Florence Schelling and her teammates take on the United States in semi-final action tonight at 7:00PM.
Schellingsingsanthem.jpg

Florence Schelling and teammates sing the Swiss national anthem after defeating Russia 5-2.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

Hux said:
Swiss netminder Florence Schelling and her teammates take on the United States in semi-final action tonight at 7:00PM.
Schellingsingsanthem.jpg

Florence Schelling and teammates sing the Swiss national anthem after defeating Russia 5-2.
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Along with Division III's own Monika and Nina Waidacher of St. Scholastica!
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

Can 5 - Fin 1 Final. Canada looking more like...Canada.

However, their discipline waned in the second half and they took some unnecessary penalties, although a couple were arguable, as was at least one called on Finland.

No room for that against the Swiss in the final.
 
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Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

So if U.S. beats Canada, it'll surely be the best goal differential for a U.S. gold medal team in Worlds / 4N / or Olympics.

The last time the U.S. hosted Worlds in 2001, U.S. had a 41-1 scoring edge entering the final & lost 3-2 to Canada. This year's 39-2 is more impressive since it included Canada & Finland.
 
Re: 2012 Women's Worlds

BellamybreaksupSwissentry.jpg

Defenseman Kacey Bellamy breaks up a Swiss entry into the US zone. Bellamy picked up an assist on D partner Gigi Marvin's goal.
 
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