2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

[sagard]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

...This was clearly an effort to intimidate this guy into taking down his signs...

Quit crying. Intimidation is a big part of life. You know it. The guy has rights, but they don't come for free. You have to fight for them.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Quit crying. Intimidation is a big part of life. You know it. The guy has rights, but they don't come for free. You have to fight for them.

Be sure to remember that the next time the cops, a former mayor, a city councilman, a TV news crew and a mob show up outside your house upset with your jack-o-lantern. You know, it's Satanic, or something.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Are you really trying to assert that he didn't want all that attention?

Because if he didn't want all that attention, he's dumber than a bag of hammers. If he did, then he got exactly what he wanted, just as I said. And for the record, by indicating that the mob shouldn't have been there, or that the news crew shouldn't have been there, you seem to be implying that those people didn't have the right to vocally disagree with him.

Honestly, I think I know you well enough to know that you are NOT saying that, but the way I see it, the guy has the right to put incredibly offensive stuff in his yard, and as many people as are offended by it have the right to tell him so. If he doesn't put that stuff up on public property and they don't violate any rights, everyone is fine. As far as Intimidation is concerned, let's put it this way:

Let's say a huge crowd gathers 'round the WBC, with angry signs chanting nasty stuff about Fred Phelps. Are they within their rights even though he might feel intimidated? Hell yes.

The man in this case has the right to inflammatory speech. And his neighbors have the right to be (figuratively) inflamed by it.

Edit: It occurs to me that I have neglected the part that I imagine is what is REALLY sticking in your craw, which is the arrogance of the politicians involved. I have this to say. Regarding the mayor, he knocked on the door, was (apparently) invited into the man's home, and quietly left without discussing the content of the conversation. It's pretty hard for me to get upset about that. I think that if I were protesting GWB and he showed up at my home to explain his position, or even to argue with and belittle me, but then left without telling anyone what we talked about, my opinion of him would go way up. (Actually, the one thing I'll say for GWB is that I could actually imagine him doing exactly that, not with me but maybe with someone) As for the city coucilwoman, she's a local political hack. That's all I need to know about her. Let her try to find a zoning issue, then if she does, he just has to be more careful about the dimensions of the next sign. In fact, in my mind, if she succeeds at getting his signs taken away with zoning laws, he wins because he proves, very publicly, that gov't is f-ed up.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Be sure to remember that the next time the cops, a former mayor, a city councilman, a TV news crew and a mob show up outside your house upset with your jack-o-lantern. You know, it's Satanic, or something.

For the record, I would love every second of it. Of course, a significant number of my friends are litigators.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Are you really trying to assert that he didn't want all that attention?

Because if he didn't want all that attention, he's dumber than a bag of hammers. If he did, then he got exactly what he wanted, just as I said. And for the record, by indicating that the mob shouldn't have been there, or that the news crew shouldn't have been there, you seem to be implying that those people didn't have the right to vocally disagree with him.

Honestly, I think I know you well enough to know that you are NOT saying that, but the way I see it, the guy has the right to put incredibly offensive stuff in his yard, and as many people as are offended by it have the right to tell him so. If he doesn't put that stuff up on public property and they don't violate any rights, everyone is fine. As far as Intimidation is concerned, let's put it this way:

Let's say a huge crowd gathers 'round the WBC, with angry signs chanting nasty stuff about Fred Phelps. Are they within their rights even though he might feel intimidated? Hell yes.

The man in this case has the right to inflammatory speech. And his neighbors have the right to be (figuratively) inflamed by it.

Well, I'm not omnicient, so I don't know what the guy wanted. But it doesn't make any difference. None of this was coincidental. Ray Nagin wasn't taking his daily walk around the city he did his best to destroy when he noticed this guy's signs and thought to himself, "I'll just go in and try to talk him into taking down these "offensive" signs. While it doesn't bear on the free speech considerations, it beggars the imagination to think all this fire power just happened to show up on the guy's doorstep. Which is not to say they don't have a right to show up, it's to say this was an attempted mugging. And it doesn't impress me that heavyweight local pols want to shut somebody up because they don't like the content of his speech. And you keep referring to the mob as his "neighbors." Well, they all presumably live in NO, but that doesn't really make them "neighbors." This was a rent a mob, whistled up to participate in this mugging.

As to your hypothetical, the Supremes have already ruled on WBC's rights. And insofar as surrounding Freddie and his band of merry makers is concerned, the actions to be taken to protect them would vary with the threat, don't you think? If it's a loud standoff, like in the parking lot of a death house on execution night, then no harm no foul. But somebody pulls a gun, hits Freddie in the choppers (which I would pay to see) or credibly threatens violence, then the cops are legally bound to protect him and his free speech rights.

You say the man has the right to his opinions. I agree. But the city councilman shouldn't use her power to shut him up. Really, don't you agree with that? I mean, shouldn't city councilmen be more concerned about picking up the trash, and schools, and street repairs and not the political views of their constituents? And if her argument is some reference to "disruptions" caused by the mob, move the mob along. That's what cops are for (even in NO).

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

For the record, I would love every second of it. Of course, a significant number of my friends are litigators.

But not everyone would. I'm inclined to agree this dude wanted the attention and is delighted that he got it. After all, WWL helped him by making sure tens of thousands of folks got to see his signs who otherwise wouldn't. But whether he wanted the attention or felt intimidated is surely beside the point of high powered pols trying to "persuade" a citizen from expressing his consitutionally protected opinions.
What should be going on here is Nagin and the babe should explain to the mob what freedom of speech is all about, and even crochety old guys have rights (thank God).

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Well, I'm not omnicient, so I don't know what the guy wanted. But it doesn't make any difference. None of this was coincidental. Ray Nagin wasn't taking his daily walk around the city he did his best to destroy when he noticed this guy's signs and thought to himself, "I'll just go in and try to talk him into taking down these "offensive" signs. While it doesn't bear on the free speech considerations, it beggars the imagination to think all this fire power just happened to show up on the guy's doorstep. Which is not to say they don't have a right to show up, it's to say this was an attempted mugging. And it doesn't impress me that heavyweight local pols want to shut somebody up because they don't like the content of his speech. And you keep referring to the mob as his "neighbors." Well, they all presumably live in NO, but that doesn't really make them "neighbors." This was a rent a mob, whistled up to participate in this mugging.

As to your hypothetical, the Supremes have already ruled on WBC's rights. And insofar as surrounding Freddie and his band of merry makers is concerned, the actions to be taken to protect them would vary with the threat, don't you think? If it's a loud standoff, like in the parking lot of a death house on execution night, then no harm no foul. But somebody pulls a gun, hits Freddie in the choppers (which I would pay to see) or credibly threatens violence, then the cops are legally bound to protect him and his free speech rights.

You say the man has the right to his opinions. I agree. But the city councilman shouldn't use her power to shut him up. Really, don't you agree with that? I mean, shouldn't city councilmen be more concerned about picking up the trash, and schools, and street repairs and not the political views of their constituents? And if her argument is some reference to "disruptions" caused by the mob, move the mob along. That's what cops are for (even in NO).

Yes, I agree that the councilman should not use her power to shut him up. But she is the one who looks like an idiot here. As for the protesters, I didn't see a mob, I saw about fifteen or twenty people standing around pointing and taking pictures with their cameras. While I saw no reason to think the cops should be bothering the homeowner (which they didn't appear to be by the way) I also saw no one else doing anything for which cops seem to need to intervene.

Edit: I really don't know anything about Nagin, but it's very hard for me to feel, with no background knowledge, that he did anything wrong here. The other lady looked like an idiot, and I would hope that her constituency would have the good sense to vote for someone else next time around.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Back on topic. Can the Republicans find their pure candidate? They should. It sure seems like they're going to go for Dole, McCain again.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Back on topic. Can the Republicans find their pure candidate? They should. It sure seems like they're going to go for Dole, McCain again.

The way things look, Dole/McCain could beat Deadmeat like a red headed step child.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Hey Kepler!!

Which one you want??

One of these may put both of us in the same district.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Hey Kepler!!

Which one you want??

Option 2: 6 sheds some Pennsylktucky border and expands down to Gaithersberg. This would be very good us, as Roscoe would be sure to retire and the open seat would go to a western-leaning GOP centrist or an eastern-leaning Dem centrist.

Option 1: harder to assess. The new 8 would be solidly Dem, the new 6 would let Roscoe keep his job. The stuff that happens well east of us is unfathomably complicated and it's hard to see it getting supported.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Meanwhile, Deadmeat steps on his johnson, again.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cgk732vfGQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The comment on the video is pretty funny, "If this doesn't get him the gay vote, nothing will." Or something like that.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

The comment on the video is pretty funny, "If this doesn't get him the gay vote, nothing will." Or something like that.

Yeah. I once came this close to firing a part timer who pronounced it "Marine Corpse" as he read a public service announcement. I asked him if he'd ever heard that phrase anywhere in his life. And had he heard of the "Marine Corps' in movies, TV etc. After reading him the Riot Act, I told him he was gone if I ever heard anything that manifestly stupid again. 'Course he was just a college kid trying to make a few extra bucks and not POTUS.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Yep, there's another one for Obama. I wonder exactly how far behind Sarah Palin, Michael Bachmann, and George W Bush he is.

Let's see if anyone bites on the Michael/Michele thing

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Yep, there's another one for Obama. I wonder exactly how far behind Sarah Palin, Michael Bachmann, and George W Bush he is.

Let's see if anyone bites on the Michael/Michele thing

Why would you assume he's behind anyone? Seems to me he's as capable of saying something stupid as anyone else. Except in the case of the people you desribe (Tina Fey said she could see Russia from her house, not Sarah Palin) any verbal gaffe is taken as proof of their intellectual inferiority. But when Deadmeat talks about "57 states", or "corpse," or "speaking Austrian" or the "intercontinental railroad," or his wife "Michael" and on and on, it's proof of what a genius he is. Some of us have detected what appears to be a double standard.

 

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Why would you assume he's behind anyone? Seems to me he's as capable of saying something stupid as anyone else. Except in the case of the people you desribe (Tina Fey said she could see Russia from her house, not Sarah Palin) any verbal gaffe is taken as proof of their intellectual inferiority. But when Deadmeat talks about "57 states", or "corpse," or "speaking Austrian" or the "intercontinental railroad," or his wife "Michael" and on and on, it's proof of what a genius he is. Some of us have detected what appears to be a double standard.

I assume nothing

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Perry has shifted from presidential favorite to outside looking in and is now joining half the nominees as unelectable. Unless something radical happens, Romney's a shoein for nomination.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Perry has shifted from presidential favorite to outside looking in and is now joining half the nominees as unelectable. Unless something radical happens, Romney's a shoein for nomination.

Which means the GOP and the Tea Party are complete failures as organizations.

 

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections Part I: All Politics is Yokel

Yep, there's another one for Obama. I wonder exactly how far behind Sarah Palin, Michael Bachmann, and George W Bush he is.

Let's see if anyone bites on the Michael/Michele thing

Quick! We must edit the wikipedia page so we can say Obama was right all along!