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2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Woah! Hold on a minute.....what's the story there Wishbone?

Actually that sounds like a really fun and exciting challenge....selling contraband whoopie pies.
Reminds me of the really old commercial with the guy in a trenchcoat with a lot of secret inside pockets: pssst! wanna buy a ______?

It's gonna be really weird to ask the camera guys to shoot the guy in a trench coat at a women's hockey game. :o
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Woah! Hold on a minute.....what's the story there Wishbone?

Actually that sounds like a really fun and exciting challenge....selling contraband whoopie pies.
Reminds me of the really old commercial with the guy in a trenchcoat with a lot of secret inside pockets: pssst! wanna buy a ______?

HA! Pretty much what happened at Agganis last year. By some weird stroke I had a parking spot 20 feet from the door. We had a big batch in a tupperware container, and I made trips out to the truck to smuggle them in.

So, looks like this year I will have to make use of the TV truck entrance at Marriuci and "tunnel" the WPs into Ridder. Wash 'em down with a little Muscle Milk from the Gopher stash in the weight room and I'll be one happy spectator!!! :p
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

HA! Pretty much what happened at Agganis last year. By some weird stroke I had a parking spot 20 feet from the door. We had a big batch in a tupperware container, and I made trips out to the truck to smuggle them in.

So, looks like this year I will have to make use of the TV truck entrance at Marriuci and "tunnel" the WPs into Ridder. Wash 'em down with a little Muscle Milk from the Gopher stash in the weight room and I'll be one happy spectator!!! :p

LMAO!
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

However, we are talking here about the top level of competition in girls hockey for girls who have not started at college. Anyone who qualifies should be allowed to compete and by and large (with the notable exception of NAHA) they are allowed. That is what make the top level so great.

Why cant these top talented girls just play on a club team? It’s like if I was to be the founder of a new school called Assabet Academy, where I provided board and tutors so parents could ship their kids off to us to play hockey and we’ll guide them through their previous school’s curriculum while making our way across the continent to play against top talent. Do you really not see the unfair advantage Assabet would have over any other youth teams coming out of Mass or anywhere in the nation.

If you can’t see that there is a huge difference between Shattuck and a youth hockey program, then you have to be not from New England. Shattuck clearly is one of the most talented teams for this age group of girls, but that doesn’t mean that the entire set of rules for USA youth hockey should be interpreted so that they can compete for a youth national title.

If Shattuck or NAHA wants to compete in nationals as a youth team then have everyone sign up for a local club team. If they want to compete with other prep schools, then shorten your season and play preps from New England. If they want to continue to hands down have one of the top teams on the continent year in and year out loaded with players bound to go division 1, then they should continue to do things their own way.

But they can’t just get everything by being allowed to make themselves exceptions to the rules.

Let's refocus on the teams who compete day in and day out at this top level and not debate what the top level is.

I like Shattuck.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

This wasn't intended to be a compromise. The intent was to have full season and academy teams compete in a separate division. Of course this raised hackles since it was felt this would then relegate the split season teams to a lower level, or that was the objection that I heard.

Somewhere along the line it was decided to make it a high school/Prep school/Academy championship and there were a substantial number of entries. However, no high school teams wanted to compete, and many of the Preps had players who also played on club teams and the tourney was at the same time as States. Players were prohibited by their club teams from playing for their Prep team, resulting in roster issues and the Preps pulled out.

Thanks, I really didn't know anything about any of this. They should just let kids be able to be on a school roster and a club roster. And schools and club coaches need to put their egos aside and realize if players could do both, it'd be good for the game. Or that's my opinion at least.
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Speaking of Assabet, they're back as well.

I haven't heard them mentioned among the US elite yet, but I'd have to believe they'll at least contend for the final four.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Brief aside, I have been told by an area USAH official that USAH is going to discontinue U12 Nationals. Anyone else hear this or similar?

To tie it to the conversation, I remember watching Miss Coyne many times as a U12.

Yeah, this is the last year. There is also discussion about eliminating the 14s as well.

Is there any word on why they'd eliminate the 12s and discuss eliminating the 14s? Is it financial?

I think Nationals are a great opportunity for the younger kids to compete and to meet other girls like themselves from all over the country. That's got to be good for hockey at a grassroots level. It's a terrible shame that USA Hockey is discontinuing the 12U nationals and it would be worse if they eliminated the 14Us.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Why cant these top talented girls just play on a club team? It’s like if I was to be the founder of a new school called Assabet Academy, where I provided board and tutors so parents could ship their kids off to us to play hockey and we’ll guide them through their previous school’s curriculum while making our way across the continent to play against top talent. Do you really not see the unfair advantage Assabet would have over any other youth teams coming out of Mass or anywhere in the nation.

If you can’t see that there is a huge difference between Shattuck and a youth hockey program, then you have to be not from New England. Shattuck clearly is one of the most talented teams for this age group of girls, but that doesn’t mean that the entire set of rules for USA youth hockey should be interpreted so that they can compete for a youth national title.

If Shattuck or NAHA wants to compete in nationals as a youth team then have everyone sign up for a local club team. If they want to compete with other prep schools, then shorten your season and play preps from New England. If they want to continue to hands down have one of the top teams on the continent year in and year out loaded with players bound to go division 1, then they should continue to do things their own way.

But they can’t just get everything by being allowed to make themselves exceptions to the rules.

Clearly, you don't understand that Shattuck IS registered exactly like a CLUB team as far as USA Hockey goes. In fact, it is NOT registered as a HS team in the Minnesota District, where a girl can play on a HS team OR a club team BUT NOT BOTH.

No exception to the rule is necessary for Shattuck. They are a club team consisting entirely of players who attend Shattuck St. Mary school. Gilmour Academy in Ohio has the same setup and I believe NSA has gone so far as to do the same, although I haven't talked to their coaching staff to confirm.

NAHA's alleged issue with the Vermont affiliate of NE District is that the girl's residency is in question. Doesn't matter that the bulk of them spend the vast majority of the year in the state. That is their rule.

The fact that some parents choose to to send their kids off to NAHA and have the choice of following their own home school curriculum OR following NAHA's accredited curriculum is irrelevant to the discussion. Any prep team that so desired could register with USA Hockey as a club team (eligible for Nationals) if their affiliate/district allows it. Most want no part of it. Most live with the pre-post arrangement with a club team for their players who desire it. And by and large that is how Assabet, Polar Bears, Ct Stars, etc. work the game.

The Stattuck and NAHA models serve families who want their daughters to have access to an integrated educational institution and top level hockey program wrapped in one. Lots of people (ourselves included) do not live where club hockey is readily available. Minnesota IIRC has only one other club team of significance (Thoroughbreds) and it has to pull players from western Wisconsin to do as well as they do, as the local public HS hockey program is how it is done there typically because of the rules in the Minnesota District.

Look at the NAHA roster - lots of kids from places where there may not be a local club available. Same with Gilmour. NSA even has some.

The school model is actually a superior model for those who can afford it, as it has a draw to build a stable and ongoing team beyond the players currently on the roster. I learned this from the experience of having my own daughter play on a "club" team that drew players from multiple districts. You can put together a decent team for a year or 2, but without a specific ongoing program in place (like a quality school), keeping the club supplied with new talent is often difficult and usually results in failure after a few years. For those of us "notfromaroundhere", these are the only models to play top level hockey. The prep and club combination can work for some schools, but logistics was a huge challenge that we were not able to overcome, probably shortchanging our daughter on her hockey experience, but she has gotten a good education and has put together her college/hockey/other ambitions package very well without it. She however is a data point of one. Definitely not the way for most.

I'm still not sure why the whine about families who want/need to package a top level hockey/education combination. If you can afford it (we definitely could not), why not?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Depends if/how the team is registered with USA hockey. I suspect that SSM and NSA are registered as club/national bound teams. In addition, unlike most NE prep teams, they play a full season schedule.


I guess some people did not read my post from yesterday......

...SSM and NSA are registered as club/national bound teams
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Is there any word on why they'd eliminate the 12s and discuss eliminating the 14s? Is it financial?

I think Nationals are a great opportunity for the younger kids to compete and to meet other girls like themselves from all over the country. That's got to be good for hockey at a grassroots level. It's a terrible shame that USA Hockey is discontinuing the 12U nationals and it would be worse if they eliminated the 14Us.
I gave Hux an earful of this myself, by telephone this morning.

I agree wholeheartedly.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I guess some people did not read my post from yesterday......

...SSM and NSA are registered as club/national bound teams

I just have one question.... are SSM and NSA registered as club/national bound teams? ;)
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I guess some people did not read my post from yesterday......

...SSM and NSA are registered as club/national bound teams

Did not mean to cloud the issue, but although USA Hockey National recognized NAHA as such, the Vermont Affiliate refuses to let them compete for their championship which qualifies them to compete against the Polar Bears and Ct Stars in the NE District. In that sense they are only a club team and not a national bound team. Double check with gotice, but I believe that is still the case. I'd love to be corrected, though.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Is there any word on why they'd eliminate the 12s and discuss eliminating the 14s? Is it financial?

I think Nationals are a great opportunity for the younger kids to compete and to meet other girls like themselves from all over the country. That's got to be good for hockey at a grassroots level. It's a terrible shame that USA Hockey is discontinuing the 12U nationals and it would be worse if they eliminated the 14Us.

I was not given a why in my conversation with my regional USAH person, nor did I ask as it was not relevant to the topic at hand. Sorry.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Did not mean to cloud the issue, but although USA Hockey National recognized NAHA as such, the Vermont Affiliate refuses to let them compete for their championship which qualifies them to compete against the Polar Bears and Ct Stars in the NE District. In that sense they are only a club team and not a national bound team. Double check with gotice, but I believe that is still the case. I'd love to be corrected, though.
Someone should remind Vermont that they weren't even one of the original 13 colonies, and that the only reason they were accepted to the union was to prevent the Canadians from monopolizing the maple syrup market!

Okay, seriously..... they stand on principle, but why does USA Hockey allow one state to stand on principle, while their neighboring state with a basically similar program just on the other side of the lake allows such a program to participate? Of course there's SSM too, but look at the lunacy of this...these two programs are less than a hundred miles apart! (Okay, fine, 138.82 if the ferry is out!)

Whatever side of the argument you are on, can we all agree that it's the inconsistency which seems highly unfair? We have protected the Vermont Stars (who might never ever win the New England District anyway) but we've thrown the Buffalo Bisons, Syracuse Stars, etc. deep under the bus!

Lunacy!
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

The single deciding issue with NAHA in Vermont is residency. While USA Hockey has a rather liberal residency policy, Vermont has chosen to be more stringent.

Here is an quote from the VSAHA by-laws:

Teams having more than 2 released players during the regular season shall be ineligible to participate in the state tournament. No team shall have more than 4 released players.

In this context a released player is one transferring from one organization to another. This has always been problematic for NAHA. They are also not considered a local organization by definition in the by-laws.

They are classified as an allied member:

5.2 ALLIED MEMBERS: Any individual, organization or entity, having an amateur ice hockey team registered with USA Hockey, but which does not qualify as a Local Association Member, shall be deemed an "Allied Member", and as such shall be entitled access to the benefits and programs of USA Hockey as a member of VSAHA, and shall be subject to the playing rules and regulations of USA Hockey as enforced by VSAHA, but shall not be entitled to participate in State Tournament Play nor be entitled to vote on any matters VSAHA action is deemed required or appropriate.

USA Hockey could step in at anytime by the way and simply establish a play in type open district for an at-large bid. This would allow Vermont to continue to send a local team and not exclude one of the best teams in the country.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Someone should remind Vermont that they weren't even one of the original 13 colonies, and that the only reason they were accepted to the union was to prevent the Canadians from monopolizing the maple syrup market!

Okay, seriously..... they stand on principle, but why does USA Hockey allow one state to stand on principle, while their neighboring state with a basically similar program just on the other side of the lake allows such a program to participate? Of course there's SSM too, but look at the lunacy of this...these two programs are less than a hundred miles apart! (Okay, fine, 138.82 if the ferry is out!)

Whatever side of the argument you are on, can we all agree that it's the inconsistency which seems highly unfair? We have protected the Vermont Stars (who might never ever win the New England District anyway) but we've thrown the Buffalo Bisons, Syracuse Stars, etc. deep under the bus!

Lunacy!

And our Maple Syrup is the best...
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Is there any word on why they'd eliminate the 12s and discuss eliminating the 14s? Is it financial?

I think Nationals are a great opportunity for the younger kids to compete and to meet other girls like themselves from all over the country. That's got to be good for hockey at a grassroots level. It's a terrible shame that USA Hockey is discontinuing the 12U nationals and it would be worse if they eliminated the 14Us.

IIRC the primary motivation is to reduce the demands, both financial and time wise, on youth families as part of the new ADM. Additionally, following the ADM philosophy, the idea is to ratchet back the "intensity" associated with playing on National bound teams...putting the focus on skill development rather than winning.


Someone should remind Vermont that they weren't even one of the original 13 colonies, and that the only reason they were accepted to the union was to prevent the Canadians from monopolizing the maple syrup market!

Okay, seriously..... they stand on principle, but why does USA Hockey allow one state to stand on principle, while their neighboring state with a basically similar program just on the other side of the lake allows such a program to participate? Of course there's SSM too, but look at the lunacy of this...these two programs are less than a hundred miles apart! (Okay, fine, 138.82 if the ferry is out!)

Whatever side of the argument you are on, can we all agree that it's the inconsistency which seems highly unfair? We have protected the Vermont Stars (who might never ever win the New England District anyway) but we've thrown the Buffalo Bisons, Syracuse Stars, etc. deep under the bus!

Lunacy!


Hmmmmmmmm, yet when you, MR. Slick Hair, Padstack, and the Newton Irish Boy were ganging up on me trumpeting the virtues of the far right I distinctly remember the phrases states rights, and less government ad nauseum. Now you want the opposite. Yeah, you flip flop just like Twit Romney. :rolleyes:
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

...Hmmmmmmmm, yet when you, MR. Slick Hair, Padstack, and the Newton Irish Boy were ganging up on me trumpeting the virtues of the far right I distinctly remember the phrases states rights, and less government ad nauseum. Now you want the opposite. Yeah, you flip flop just like Twit Romney. :rolleyes:

Oh such a set up for a political comment...but alas, I wouldn't want to upset any of those blue leaning folks.:p
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Hmmmmmmmm, yet when you, MR. Slick Hair, Padstack, and the Newton Irish Boy were ganging up on me trumpeting the virtues of the far right I distinctly remember the phrases states rights, and less government ad nauseum. Now you want the opposite. Yeah, you flip flop just like Twit Romney. :rolleyes:
Hey, let's not confuse women's hockey with politics, or I'll get out my Sarah Palin hymn book!

I think it's great that the Constitution's founding fathers gave each state the opportunity to approve their own laws and legislation subject to broad constitutional guidelines and highly general federal laws. This has enabled the states to perform as little laboratories in trialing various social practices to hopefully arrive at a best practice.

I just don't think this philosophy should apply to a national sports organization that offers a national championship tournament. "Little League" for example has very standard rules for how each charter is established and run, and for how that charter's representative team is chosen. The rules are the same whether you live in Red Wing or the Bronx (okay, fine bad example.....) err... East L.A. I don't believe Vermont should be allowed to administer rules that are grossly out sync with all other participating states and districts. It smells of old school, back room "fixing", by good ol' boys with an ax to grind.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Hey, let's not confuse women's hockey with politics, or I'll get out my Sarah Palin hymn book!

I think it's great that the Constitution's founding fathers gave each state the opportunity to approve their own laws and legislation subject to broad constitutional guidelines and highly general federal laws. This has enabled the states to perform as little laboratories in trialing various social practices to hopefully arrive at a best practice.

I just don't think this philosophy should apply to a national sports organization that offers a national championship tournament. "Little League" for example has very standard rules for how each charter is established and run, and for how that charter's representative team is chosen. The rules are the same whether you live in Red Wing or the Bronx (okay, fine bad example.....) err... East L.A. I don't believe Vermont should be allowed to administer rules that are grossly out sync with all other participating states and districts. It smells of old school, back room "fixing", by good ol' boys with an ax to grind.

Ice I don't disagree with whether Vermont should or should not conform to the rest of USA Hockey, however this rule was in place long before NAHA even existed. It was designed to keep organizations that were close to each other from putting together super teams so to speak. The reality is that up until the Vermont Stars became a winter program (just two years ago) Vermont teams were not all that competitive at the regional tournament. The Stars are at least not getting blown out.

In the perfect world there is a way to keep the rights of the states to make their own rules and allow a team such as NAHA into a tournament that they belong in.

My question is why has USA hockey not stepped in? They certainly have the ability to do something. Could it be the number of Canadian girls that end up at NAHA? I'm not sure what the percentage is, but it could be a factor.
 
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