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2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Ice I don't disagree with whether Vermont should or should not conform to the rest of USA Hockey, however this rule was in place long before NAHA even existed. It was designed to keep organizations that were close to each other from putting together super teams so to speak. The reality is that up until the Vermont Stars became a winter program (just two years ago) Vermont teams were not all that competitive at the regional tournament. The Stars are at least not getting blown out.

In the perfect world there is a way to keep the rights of the states to make their own rules and allow a team such as NAHA into a tournament that they belong in.

My question is why has USA hockey not stepped in? They certainly have the ability to do something. Could it be the number of Canadian girls that end up at NAHA? I'm not sure what the percentage is, but it could be a factor.

This subject could be discussed, hashed and rehashed forever. The reality is this rule was never written or enforced until NAHA wanted to compete. There were boys teams, primarily the Green Mountain Glades Bantam team that won the national tournament, as well as the Midget major and minor teams, that did have players from outside the state and country on their rosters. The rule was placed in writing after NAHA began their quest and pursued it in the local courts. The original judge basically stated that Vermont could not enforce a rule that was not in writing. Low and behold the next week the original bylaws were scrubbed from the internet and the new "written" rule was posted.

The bottom line is that USA hockey will not step in, even though all those within USA hockey recognize that it is not an equitable situation. USOC will not step in and enforce their own rules over USA hockey. Nobody wants to step on anybody's toes. NAHA pays the same dues to USA Hockey that every other team in the nation does and are denied a way to compete at the "National" tournament.

USA hockey thought of a compromise by trying to start a "Prep School" Division. Unfortunately, they still allow NSA and SSM to compete at the top National level, while NAHA is relegated to a tournament with a handful of prep schools. The NAHA team (Red and White players who were available) participated in this "Invitational" of a whopping 4 teams and won the tournament. If you asked any of these girls, they would have much rather lost at the National tournament and played in the big show, than to win a tournament with 4 whole teams and little competition.

Everyone in the position of power able to fix this situation, talks the big talk, but no one has the guts to put the action behind their words.

Now that USA has established this "Prep School/High School division" Why not establish rules that determine what qualifies as a prep team and what qualifies as a club team. Perhaps the Prep Teams should be any team that has players, who do not have parental residence in the state that the team is registered in and club teams should be teams comprised of only players who's parents reside within the state. That way all the top teams would play in the Prep division and the homegrown teams would play in the club division. Just a thought.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

The single deciding issue with NAHA in Vermont is residency. While USA Hockey has a rather liberal residency policy, Vermont has chosen to be more stringent.

Here is an quote from the VSAHA by-laws:

Teams having more than 2 released players during the regular season shall be ineligible to participate in the state tournament. No team shall have more than 4 released players.

In this context a released player is one transferring from one organization to another. This has always been problematic for NAHA. They are also not considered a local organization by definition in the by-laws.

They are classified as an allied member:

5.2 ALLIED MEMBERS: Any individual, organization or entity, having an amateur ice hockey team registered with USA Hockey, but which does not qualify as a Local Association Member, shall be deemed an "Allied Member", and as such shall be entitled access to the benefits and programs of USA Hockey as a member of VSAHA, and shall be subject to the playing rules and regulations of USA Hockey as enforced by VSAHA, but shall not be entitled to participate in State Tournament Play nor be entitled to vote on any matters VSAHA action is deemed required or appropriate.

USA Hockey could step in at anytime by the way and simply establish a play in type open district for an at-large bid. This would allow Vermont to continue to send a local team and not exclude one of the best teams in the country.

What something in Vermont that isn't Liberal? :confused: :eek: :p :D :rolleyes:
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Are you NAHA people still whining about this? Really? GET OVER IT!

If you want to go to Nationals, don't go to NAHA. Otherwise, STOP CRYING!
I'm not a NAHA person, I have no family at NAHA, I have no ownership interest or other vesting in NAHA.

I simply know wrong when I see it. And no, I won't stop.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

This is not just a Vermont issue, there are other states/USA Districts that have similar restrictions. Michigan has a 2-3 player limit on out of state kids. I think Illinois has something very similar. I think NAHA should be allowed to play, but this is an issue that has been beat to death with no change as a result.

How about some discussion on this year’s teams that "will" be playing in Green Bay.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Here is the Host Team:

http://greenbay.pucksystems2.com/page/show/98701-u19-women-s-nationals-bound-team-2009-

Before/After team comprised mainly of WIAA (Wisconsin HS) talent. Better than certain so-called AAA programs and maybe better than many host teams recently, but that may be it. Good group of players none-the-less, IMHO.

Not likely to be a factor though. The three early games against SSM were solid loses to the SSM 16U team and prior to that the lost convincingly to the Ohio Flames who are not very strong. They look to be slightly stronger than the Chill and CYA here in Chicago, it's not likely they will compete with Mission, Little Caesars, AV, SSM 19Us.

Anyone think those are not the top teams in the 19U bracket?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I'm not a NAHA person, I have no family at NAHA, I have no ownership interest or other vesting in NAHA.

I simply know wrong when I see it. And no, I won't stop.

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not!), but the NAHA folks KNOW they can't go to Nationals. So, if you really want to go to Nationals, here's a thought: DON'T GO TO NAHA! If you really love NAHA, accept that you can't go to Nationals.

Either way STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not!), but the NAHA folks KNOW they can't go to Nationals. So, if you really want to go to Nationals, here's a thought: DON'T GO TO NAHA! If you really love NAHA, accept that you can't go to Nationals.

Either way STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!

I don't see anyone crying, just making a statement about how the whole "Nationals", USA Hockey, Districts, and States are run and the inconsistency of it all. Of course the NAHA girls realize they are not going to be able to compete at Nationals and choose to go to NAHA just the same, that fact does not make the overall situation correct. For the record the posters that started the discussion have absolutely nothing to do with NAHA, but anyone with eyes and a brain can see that this inequity just doesn't make sense.

However, I find it amusing that you would comment on whining or crying, when the majority of your short time on the USCHO boards has been spent whining about a certain coach at a certain university. The same could be said for your opinion on said subject...those who go to that school know what they are getting before they commit, so suck it up and deal with it, or go somewhere else.

Now back to the discussion of top teams at the "National" tournament; It is the usual, SSM, Assabet, Colorado, Little Caesars, Mission, and I would also include NSA. They have improved greatly this year and may surprise a few of the regulars.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not!), but the NAHA folks KNOW they can't go to Nationals. So, if you really want to go to Nationals, here's a thought: DON'T GO TO NAHA! If you really love NAHA, accept that you can't go to Nationals.

Either way STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!

LOL, this is one of the same dudes who was Digit bashing on the Brown thread...I love it. No, I won't stop. Bring it, baby! Come and try to take the belt any time you like.

As for the whole NAHA debate, it isn't about being pro-NAHA. It isn't about which way the thing gets decided. Tell NAHA to take a hike if you want, that's fine. Just please tell SSM and NSA and anyone else to take the same hike. Fair is Fair.

"saving the world one whoopie pie at a time" - Hux
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not!), but the NAHA folks KNOW they can't go to Nationals. So, if you really want to go to Nationals, here's a thought: DON'T GO TO NAHA! If you really love NAHA, accept that you can't go to Nationals.

Either way STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!
And another thing, you may have noticed that I not only neg-repped you, but I actually signed my neg-rep. I'd do it again, but alas.... "you must spread......"
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

And another thing, you may have noticed that I not only neg-repped you, but I actually signed my neg-rep. I'd do it again, but alas.... "you must spread......"

Do you want some help? I have rep to go around:D
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Correct me if I'm wrong (though I know I'm not!), but the NAHA folks KNOW they can't go to Nationals. So, if you really want to go to Nationals, here's a thought: DON'T GO TO NAHA! If you really love NAHA, accept that you can't go to Nationals.

Either way STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!
you're MISSING the POINT!!11!!one!!!eleventy!!!1!! :eek:
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Hey I have an idea but lack the skill to do it....In other words a little please. How about two polls. 1. Who is going to win U19 Nationals and 2. Should NAHA be eligible for Nationals. Thanks :)
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Hey I have an idea but lack the skill to do it....In other words a little please. How about two polls. 1. Who is going to win U19 Nationals and 2. Should NAHA be eligible for Nationals. Thanks :)

Not worth the time or energy. No matter what poll you use and who votes, it isn't going to change a darn thing....

But I can start a poll for who is going to win "Nationals"
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Not worth the time or energy. No matter what poll you use and who votes, it isn't going to change a darn thing....

But I can start a poll for who is going to win "Nationals"

Hey Gotice, you are right about not changing anything but I think NAHA would be strongly supported here for their participation in Nationals. Also I do like your version "The USA Hockey Invitational Tournament."
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Not likely to be a factor though. The three early games against SSM were solid loses to the SSM 16U team and prior to that the lost convincingly to the Ohio Flames who are not very strong. They look to be slightly stronger than the Chill and CYA here in Chicago, it's not likely they will compete with Mission, Little Caesars, AV, SSM 19Us.

Anyone think those are not the top teams in the 19U bracket?


Agreed. Are all of those teams already en route to Green Bay? That was the question. I agree with your analysis, BTW. I thought I would just focus on the positives of what can be not very good host teams. Some of the players may showcase well.
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Hey Gotice, you are right about not changing anything but I think NAHA would be strongly supported here for their participation in Nationals. Also I do like your version "The USA Hockey Invitational Tournament."


Which, ironically, was last weekend and was won by NAHA and which started the whole discussion in the first place.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Which, ironically, was last weekend and was won by NAHA and which started the whole discussion in the first place.

Yea, as I posted in my first reply to this thread. NAHA, relegated to the weaker "Prep School" Invitational, won it out of the 4 teams that played. The NAHA team that won was a combination of White and Red (usually 16U) players that were available to attend. As stated below, playing in this "tournament" and winning does not compare to the competition and experience of the "National" Invitational tournament that SSM, NSA, and other programs that have and do recruit players from outside of their home states and country are afforded.

It is what it is, USA Hockey, VT affiliate, NE affiliate, and USOC could really give a rat's A.S.S. about what is equitable, correct, or logical.

I posted a poll for those interested in voting for who they thing will win the upcoming Invitational tournament
 
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