2009-2010 Polls thread

[CrazyDave]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Had to go digging to find this thread, but at any rate...

Here's the newest poll. Mercyhurst loses a couple of first place votes due to their tie vs. St. Cloud State.

USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll
January 4, 2010

   Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll 
 1 Mercyhurst   (13)        16-1-2   148      1 
 2 Minnesota    ( 2)        15-3-2   136      2 
 3 Clarkson                 14-4-1   118      3 
 4 New Hampshire            12-2-4   102      4 
 5 Harvard                   8-3-2    91      5 
 6 Wisconsin                12-5-3    76      6 
 7 Minnesota-Duluth         13-7-2    60      7 
 8 Cornell                   8-4-2    46      8 
 9 Northeastern             11-4-2    29      9 
10 Boston University         7-6-7     6     10 
10 Ohio State                9-7-4     6     NR 
Others Receiving Votes: Niagara 3, Connecticut 2, Providence 1, Syracuse 1

 

[ARM]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

USA Today Poll:

<quote><pre>Jan. 5, 2010
Rank School (first-place votes) Record Points Last week
1 Mercyhurst (19) 16-1-2 190 1
2 Minnesota 15-3-2 171 2
3 Clarkson 14-4-1 146 4
4 New Hampshire 12-2-4 139 3
5 Harvard 8-3-2 111 5
6 Wisconsin 12-5-3 98 6
7 Minnesota Duluth 13-7-2 76 7
8 Cornell 8-4-2 51 8
9 Northeastern 11-4-2 44 9
10 Ohio State 9-7-4 7 NR

Others receiving votes: Boston University, 6; Niagara University, 3; University of Connecticut, 3.</pre></quote>

 

[ARM]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

It will be interesting to see what the voters do this week with so many teams losing points while missing players for the MLP Cup.

 

[Bergey1]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Biggest change was Cornell dropping out.

January 11, 2010

1 Mercyhurst (14) 16-1-2 149 1
2 Minnesota ( 1) 17-3-2 136 2
3 New Hampshire 13-2-4 119 4
4 Clarkson 15-4-2 105 3
5 Wisconsin 13-6-3 82 6
6 Harvard 8-4-3 72 5
7 Minnesota-Duluth 13-7-2 69 7
8 Northeastern 12-5-2 34 9
9 Connecticut 11-6-5 27 NR
10 Syracuse 13-8-1 12 NR

Others Receiving Votes: Cornell 9, Boston University 5, St. Lawrence 3, Providence 2, Ohio State 1

 

[DC78-82]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Biggest change was Cornell dropping out.

January 11, 2010

1 Mercyhurst (14) 16-1-2 149 1
2 Minnesota ( 1) 17-3-2 136 2
3 New Hampshire 13-2-4 119 4
4 Clarkson 15-4-2 105 3
5 Wisconsin 13-6-3 82 6
6 Harvard 8-4-3 72 5
7 Minnesota-Duluth 13-7-2 69 7
8 Northeastern 12-5-2 34 9
9 Connecticut 11-6-5 27 NR
10 Syracuse 13-8-1 12 NR

Others Receiving Votes: Cornell 9, Boston University 5, St. Lawrence 3, Providence 2, Ohio State 1

Intersting that a couple of teams lost games they should have won to maintain the previous week's rankings, yet moved up in the polls. Almost time for RPI~

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Intersting that a couple of teams lost games they should have won to maintain the previous week's rankings, yet moved up in the polls. Almost time for RPI~

I have to play the role of a Gopher homer every once in awhile, so I also find it interesting that, while Minnesota did "win over" the one voter who had previously ranked them third (though, more likely, Clarkson lost that 2nd-place vote), the Gophers' sweep of Ohio State (by a combined 11-2 score) was not enough to keep from losing one of last week's two first-place votes back to idle Mercyhurst.

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

I have to play the role of a Gopher homer every once in awhile, so I also find it interesting that, while Minnesota did "win over" the one voter who had previously ranked them third (though, more likely, Clarkson lost that 2nd-place vote), the Gophers' sweep of Ohio State (by a combined 11-2 score) was not enough to keep from losing one of last week's two first-place votes back to idle Mercyhurst.

Along that vein, I find it interesting that Cornell losing to PC twice this past weekend was sufficient for them to lose 37 of their 46 points and dropping out of the top 10 whereas Providence only picked up 1 point for their efforts.

Plus, I honestly don't know how UConn is ranked. While their record may be okay overall, they have only won 2 league games this year and they are in second to last place. Maine currently has more points/wins than them.

 

[Bergey1]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

I actually expected PC to get in there at #10 this week or at least be the top "Also receiving votes" team. I found it odd they only got 2 votes. As for Uconn, I think they've been a little inconsistent (beating SLU and Dartmouth, losing to Colgate, BC) but they've been on a hot streak lately. But overall, they only have a good record with a pretty strong schedule. If they hope to get in the NCAAs though they have a lot of work to take care of in HEA.

 

[Bergey1]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Here is this week's USA Today/USA Hockey Poll. UConn is left out of the top 10 but Providence and Cornell are in. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/hockey/usatwomen.htm

Jan. 12, 2010

1 Mercyhurst (19) 16-1-2 190 1
2 Minnesota 17-3-2 171 2
3 New Hampshire 13-2-4 150 4
4 Clarkson 15-4-2 131 3
5 Minnesota Duluth 13-7-2 103 7
6 Harvard 8-4-3 88 5
7 Wisconsin 13-6-3 82 6
8 Northeastern 12-5-2 55 9
9 Providence 8-7-8 18 NR
10 Cornell 8-7-2 17 8

Others receiving votes: University of Connecticut, 14; Boston University, 12; Princeton University, 5; The Ohio State University, 5; Syracuse University, 4.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Along that vein, I find it interesting that Cornell losing to PC twice this past weekend was sufficient for them to lose 37 of their 46 points and dropping out of the top 10 whereas Providence only picked up 1 point for their efforts.

No reason to expect any kind of symmetry here. Of course Cornell is going to lose a ton of points after losing 3 games in one week, going from 8-4-2 to 8-7-2. Of course Providence isn't going to pick up the same number of points because they were further outside the top 10. How many points you pick up in a given week will depend on how many teams are close to you in the poll, how far away you are from getting into the poll.

Plus, I honestly don't know how UConn is ranked. While their record may be okay overall, they have only won 2 league games this year and they are in second to last place. Maine currently has more points/wins than them.

The Hockey East standings care about UConn's shootout record (1-3). The NCAA doesn't care about shootouts. I would say voters generally don't care much about the shootouts because not everyone has them and the NCAA doesn't care. Similarly, the NCAA doesn't care about conference standings. I don't think voters care much easier, and why should they -- why should a conference matter more for your perception of a team more than a conference game? And UConn has done very well in noncon play. That said, it is quite an anomaly that UConn is 7th of 8 in the HE standings at this point of the season but in the top 10 poll.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

That said, it is quite an anomaly that UConn is 7th of 8 in the HE standings at this point of the season but in the top 10 poll.

Part of the reason for that is HE's conference schedule evolves in a fashion that is anything but uniform. E.g., the standings show UNH in 3rd place with an .833 conference winning %, while NU and BC are #1 and #2 at .615 and .462 respectively. Shootouts are a little piece of that, but the Wildcats with 4 games in hand is a much larger factor. Similarly, UConn trails Maine by a point but has 2 games in hand and a better winning %.

 

[Mitterman]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Here is this week's USA Today/USA Hockey Poll. UConn is left out of the top 10 but Providence and Cornell are in. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/hockey/usatwomen.htm

Jan. 12, 2010

1 Mercyhurst (19) 16-1-2 190 1
2 Minnesota 17-3-2 171 2
3 New Hampshire 13-2-4 150 4
4 Clarkson 15-4-2 131 3
5 Minnesota Duluth 13-7-2 103 7
6 Harvard 8-4-3 88 5
7 Wisconsin 13-6-3 82 6
8 Northeastern 12-5-2 55 9
9 Providence 8-7-8 18 NR
10 Cornell 8-7-2 17 8

Others receiving votes: University of Connecticut, 14; Boston University, 12; Princeton University, 5; The Ohio State University, 5; Syracuse University, 4.

Hmmmm... Syracuse beats Princeton twice as well as Cornell and Providence
but gets fewer votes..interesting

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

No reason to expect any kind of symmetry here. Of course Cornell is going to lose a ton of points after losing 3 games in one week, going from 8-4-2 to 8-7-2. Of course Providence isn't going to pick up the same number of points because they were further outside the top 10. How many points you pick up in a given week will depend on how many teams are close to you in the poll, how far away you are from getting into the poll.

Of course I didn't think that Providence would pick up all the points that Cornell lost, however, I did think that based on our record over the past month (4-0-2) that we would pick up more than 1 point.

The Hockey East standings care about UConn's shootout record (1-3). The NCAA doesn't care about shootouts. I would say voters generally don't care much about the shootouts because not everyone has them and the NCAA doesn't care. Similarly, the NCAA doesn't care about conference standings. I don't think voters care much easier, and why should they -- why should a conference matter more for your perception of a team more than a conference game? And UConn has done very well in noncon play. That said, it is quite an anomaly that UConn is 7th of 8 in the HE standings at this point of the season but in the top 10 poll.

I would argue that due to the importance put on league games, they are a true indicator of the ability, focus and confidence of a team. Sure, all games are important, but if you can't take care of business at home, then I think it says something.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Ok fair enough. But bottom line is all these teams ranked 8-10ish have their warts, and there's no clear cut case for either one. You can make a case for any of them. Do you value conference wins more? Do you value recent performance more? etc, etc.

Now I think a poll should to some degree reflect, if these teams played tomorrow, who should be the favorite? Therefore I think you value recent performance more than the PWR might, and I think Providence should be higher than 16th.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Btw, regarding the difference between Providence and UConn in the USA vs. USCHO polls (Providence gets ranked in USA Today, only one vote in USCHO) -- my guess is a big factor is that USCHO distributes the Pairwise Rankings to its voters, and Providence is just 16th there. The rankings don't appear to be working on the site yet, but here they are now.

2009-2010 Division I Women PairWise Rankings (PWR)
Includes games through Sunday, January 10, 2010

Rk Team GP W- L- T Win% Rk RPI Rk PWR
1 Mercyhurst 19 16- 1- 2 0.8947 2 | 0.6286 1 | 15
2 Minnesota 22 17- 3- 2 0.8182 3 | 0.6198 2 | 14
3 New Hampshire 19 13- 2- 4 0.7895 4 | 0.6043 3 | 12
4 Wisconsin 22 13- 6- 3 0.6591 7 | 0.5505 7 | 12
5 Clarkson 21 15- 4- 2 0.7619 5 | 0.5839 4 | 11
6 Harvard 15 8- 4- 3 0.6333 9 | 0.5605 5 | 10
7 Minnesota-Duluth 22 13- 7- 2 0.6364 8 | 0.5571 6 | 10
8 Connecticut 22 11- 6- 5 0.6136 10 | 0.5355 9 | 8
9 Northeastern 19 12- 5- 2 0.6842 6 | 0.5422 8 | 7
10 Syracuse 21 12- 8- 1 0.5952 11 | 0.5303 10 | 6
11 St. Lawrence 21 9- 7- 5 0.5476 12 | 0.5218 11 | 5
12 Boston University 22 8- 6- 8 0.5455 13 | 0.5190 12 | 4
13 Ohio State 22 9- 9- 4 0.5000 17 | 0.5179 13 | 3
14 Cornell 17 8- 7- 2 0.5294 15 | 0.5160 14 | 1
15 Niagara 20 8- 8- 4 0.5000 17 | 0.5144 15 | 1
16 Providence 23 8- 7- 8 0.5217 16 | 0.5068 16 | 1

 

[ARM]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

The rankings don't appear to be working on the site yet, but here they are now.

Bucky at #4 -- I wouldn't have expected that. I suppose some of their losses being to teams that aren't under consideration, plus the sweep of UM giving them COP over teams like Clarkson and Harvard, allows them to reverse the RPI deficit.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

Agreed, if you replace "some" with "almost all." I think they're 5-1-2 against TUCs (including 3-0-1 against Minnesota and UMD). Note that poll voters overall are not buying the NCAA logic.

The other difference between the poll and PWR is NU vs. UConn. NU has not done well against TUCs.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

The rankings don't appear to be working on the site yet...

And away we go ...

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwr_w.php

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

The rankings don't appear to be working on the site yet...

And away we go ...

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwr_w.php

The individual comparisons link still isn't working. So we're halfway there.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: 2009-2010 Polls thread

So, not to overstate the value of polls and rankings, but for the sake of debate.... I'm assuming the fact that Minnesota needed to go to a shootout to beat Bemidji twice doesn't enter into the occasion.... the math says they got two "W"'s, right?

But, In theory, what would you put greater value on? A win and a tie against #4, or a two shootout wins against an unranked team?

I'm pretty sure the math favors the Gophers in this, but..... isn't that just a wee bit illogical?

Just asking...means nothing in the scheme of things, but... figured it would make for some debate! Thoughts??