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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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SJHovey said:
Not to be too pedantic, but technically it’s up to the US House of Representatives to elect a speaker, not some subset of that group.

Right now, 212 are behind Jeffries, 200 or so behind McCarthy, and 20 or so who haven’t figured out who they are behind.

European politicians, used to multi-party politics, are used to building governing coalitions. US politicians lack that skill because we’ve been locked in a two party system for more than a century. They’ll have to figure it out.

For those of you hoping for the rise of a legitimate third party, or gleefully hoping either the Democratic or Republican Party fracture into multiple parties, this is what that looks like.
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Why should the Democrats help the Republicans when they have done nothing but sting us halfway across the river. Every time. For 50 years.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Why should the Democrats help the Republicans when they have done nothing but sting us halfway across the river. Every time. For 50 years.
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It has nothing to do with "helping." If you can find 218 votes, you can control the chair of the Speaker of the House, and that's a powerful thing.
 
American politicians are great at coalition building. This issue here is Republicans are not politicians, and the GOP is not a political party. It is a terrorist organization bound to a cult.

You do not negotiate with them. You keep them away from the silverware and the children.
 
SJHovey said:
Not to be too pedantic, but technically it’s up to the US House of Representatives to elect a speaker, not some subset of that group.

Right now, 212 are behind Jeffries, 200 or so behind McCarthy, and 20 or so who haven’t figured out who they are behind.

European politicians, used to multi-party politics, are used to building governing coalitions. US politicians lack that skill because we’ve been locked in a two party system for more than a century. They’ll have to figure it out.

For those of you hoping for the rise of a legitimate third party, or gleefully hoping either the Democratic or Republican Party fracture into multiple parties, this is what that looks like.
Click to expand...

So tell six of your "moderate" Republicans to vote for Jeffries. He's consistently gotten more votes than anyone else.

Or.....shut the eff up.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Why should the Democrats help the Republicans when they have done nothing but sting us halfway across the river. Every time. For 50 years.
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His aim is to normalize the GOP's pathology as regular politics. He is not a sincere interlocutor.
 
SJHovey said:
It has nothing to do with "helping." If you can find 218 votes, you can control the chair of the Speaker of the House, and that's a powerful thing.
Click to expand...

It's only as powerful as the votes on the floor. Basically it's the Chief Justice in a bigger court. What you're describing is a fantasy world where six or seven Republicans become loyal Democrats. Now, I know we've been talking about The Twilight Zone in the other thread, but in this thread, we live in the real world. There hasn't been more than five Republicans, in either house combined, that have done the Democrats a solid since Clinton was impeached. And none of them on principle. Only when they were lame ducks in purple districts, in isolated and limited circumstances, or when they were redistricted and no longer safe Rs.

Even then, not a single one has done the right thing in 30 years. Not one. Maybe Liz Cheney. And she was summarily executed by her party.
 
Kepler said:
American politicians are great at coalition building. This issue here is Republicans are not politicians, and the GOP is not a political party. It is a terrorist organization bound to a cult.

You do not negotiate with them. You keep them away from the silverware and the children.
Click to expand...

Correct on all counts. They have no interest in government or governance. They just want to watch the fucking world burn.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
It's only as powerful as the votes on the floor. Basically it's the Chief Justice in a bigger court. What you're describing is a fantasy world where six or seven Republicans become loyal Democrats. Now, I know we've been talking about The Twilight Zone in the other thread, but in this thread, we live in the real world. There hasn't been more than five Republicans, in either house combined, that have done the Democrats a solid since Clinton was impeached. And none of them on principle. Only when they were lame ducks in purple districts, in isolated and limited circumstances, or when they were redistricted and no longer safe Rs.

Even then, not a single one has done the right thing in 30 years. Not one. Maybe Liz Cheney. And she was summarily executed by her party.
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I think in the last Senate, of the 50 Senators you guys counted as "D's," there were actually only something like 47 or 48. The others were "Independents." But, they were persuaded to vote with D's on enough issues to give the D's majority control in the Senate.

I would be shocked if somewhere behind the scenes the Democratic leadership in the House isn't at least thinking about or talking about or exploring the possibility of how they can get to 218. They aren't publicly acknowledging it because there is too much political value in letting the Republicans in the House engage in their spat, but they are thinking about it.

This might be your future, right here. It's entirely possible the Republican party, as represented in the House, fractures into two separate groups. Then what?

Then you are right back to what I was talking about earlier. Who can come up with a way to get to 218. Yep, it's as fragile as your coalition, but it's better than having no coalition at all.
 
aparch said:
No. Six Republicans can cross over and end this.

Almost thirty Democrats aren't going to vote for Qevin just to get stabbed in the back by him next week.
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Exactly. The Dems must hold strong if they wuss out they will end up looking terrible.
 
This is why it is so fascinating how Republicans have continually fucked over Democrats over and over again. Sorry, you fuck somebody over enough and they're not going to be willing to help you out. EVER.
 
Handyman said:
Exactly. The Dems must hold strong if they wuss out they will end up looking terrible.
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You guys continue to look at this from exactly the wrong direction. You aren't going to get 20 democrats to vote for McCarthy, or anyone the Republicans put up. So, why not take advantage of some of the frustration that is probably felt by some of the members of the Republican caucus and encourage them to cross over. You only need 6 people. That's a lot easier than the 17 or 18 McCarthy needs to get.

What is literally the worst outcome if you do that? You get a speaker for an undefined period of time, however long the coalition holds up.

I will say it again, I would shocked if experienced D's aren't exploring this.
 
SJHovey said:
You guys continue to look at this from exactly the wrong direction. You aren't going to get 20 democrats to vote for McCarthy, or anyone the Republicans put up. So, why not take advantage of some of the frustration that is probably felt by some of the members of the Republican caucus and encourage them to cross over. You only need 6 people. That's a lot easier than the 17 or 18 McCarthy needs to get.

What is literally the worst outcome if you do that? You get a speaker for an undefined period of time, however long the coalition holds up.

I will say it again, I would shocked if experienced D's aren't exploring this.
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They are doing that already. The entire REPUBLICAN CAUCUS has told the DEMOCRATS to go fuck themselves since the Tea Party came into being. NO REPUBLICAN is EVER going to vote for ANYONE the Democrats put up. Only a compromise Republican may work getting Democrats to cross over. Jeffries said he wants a partner. Give him one and you'll get all the votes you want.
 
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