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World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

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Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

dubbie31 said:
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Just don't get yourself wrapped up in being afraid of "Typical City" showing up again. We have a manager who won 3 straight Serie A titles...he knows how to win.
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LOL. He won or was handed three Serie A titles?

To your earlier points, there is no question United is lightweight in midfield. Fergie is kind of between a rock and a hard place though because with Pogba, Morrison, and Tunnicliffe all on the way how much can you invest there? I like all of our defensive talent, Jones and Smalling will be first choice for England for the next 10 years and apparently De Gea is going to take Casillas's spot at some point.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

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Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Drew S. said:
I think Chelsea's reaction was completely embarrassing, especially from Lampard and Luiz. All the diving and antics were ridiculous.
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I only saw the highlights...
 
WeWantMore said:
So the MLS Playoffs look like this...
Wild Card Round
(7) Dallas vs. (10) New York
(8) Colorado vs. (9) Columbus

Western Conference
Los Angeles vs. Lowest Seeded Wild Card Winner
Seattle vs. Salt Lake
Eastern Conference
Kansas City vs. Highest Seeded Wild Card Winner
Houston vs. Philadelphia

So NY v. LA is a possible quarterfinal matchup. Would be pretty tasty.

I think this might be the year Seattle gets over the hump in the West though.
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New York has to go thru 3 out of the top 4 teams just to reach the Final. Don't discount LA though, Bruce Arena always seems to find a way to get past Seattle although if Rosales is healthy lookout for the Sounders. Seattle has to get past RSL who could get past them and LA. As for the East I like KC, Dallas nor Colorado do not have enough to beat them and I like KC at home in the East Final.

BTW, if LA advances to the West Final, RSL is guaranteed a spot in the CCL.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Drew S. said:
LOL. He won or was handed three Serie A titles?

To your earlier points, there is no question United is lightweight in midfield. Fergie is kind of between a rock and a hard place though because with Pogba, Morrison, and Tunnicliffe all on the way how much can you invest there? I like all of our defensive talent, Jones and Smalling will be first choice for England for the next 10 years and apparently De Gea is going to take Casillas's spot at some point.
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He was handed one...but the others he lead those clubs to...you have to win the games to win the title...besides...he kept it clean. Mancini has won everywhere he has gone. I think its about time people gave him credit for his management skills. People have ripped him for being boring and an authoritarian. Well something is working for him...City is no longer playing like a bunch on individuals...they're playing as a solid unit
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

dubbie31 said:
He was handed one...but the others he lead those clubs to...you have to win the games to win the title...besides...he kept it clean. Mancini has won everywhere he has gone. I think its about time people gave him credit for his management skills. People have ripped him for being boring and an authoritarian. Well something is working for him...City is no longer playing like a bunch on individuals...they're playing as a solid unit
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He didn't do a whole lot in Europe with Inter and I think the second title was a gift as well. The third one was somewhat legitimate. Time will tell with him but I think right now the jury is still out. I don't think anyone in the prem can match City's depth but I could also see that being their downfall. I can't imagine Nasri and others fancy sitting on the bench.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Drew S. said:
He didn't do a whole lot in Europe with Inter and I think the second title was a gift as well. The third one was somewhat legitimate. Time will tell with him but I think right now the jury is still out. I don't think anyone in the prem can match City's depth but I could also see that being their downfall. I can't imagine Nasri and others fancy sitting on the bench.
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Just call them Chelski, Part 2.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
It's a shame that's what you have to do to win in the Premiership.
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That's what happens when you become more and more about business and less and less about sport. That's why I'm not all that upset with Arsenal not really contending that much anymore. At least they make some semblance of fiscal sense.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Ok...gonna rant here.

When people make a deal out of the money City has...it drives me nuts. Teams have been doing this for YEARS and its only City or Chelsea who "Buy" the titles. What about United who have been spending for years? How about Real and Barca???

City was in a position where they had a ton of money and had to get good QUICK. They did what any other club would have done in their position.

Also, City fans as a whole have EARNED this...

City fans have had to deal with the rags turning their noses up and heckling for a long time...even though they forget...they were s--- before too! Now, we have a team that we can be proud of. City has a history...not as glorious but every bit as colourful. We City fans have been through a lot, and YES I was a City fan BEFORE the money came.

City will continue to grow. Mancini has been brilliant as boss and has helped make this squad a TEAM. You can spend all the money you want...but unless you have the right boss in place to handle the egos...you wont win. A squad of individuals would never batter United 6-1 on their own pitch...Mancini has built a team of the best players that can win the league.

CTID!!!
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

dubbie31 said:
Ok...gonna rant here.

When people make a deal out of the money City has...it drives me nuts. Teams have been doing this for YEARS and its only City or Chelsea who "Buy" the titles. What about United who have been spending for years? How about Real and Barca???

City was in a position where they had a ton of money and had to get good QUICK. They did what any other club would have done in their position.

Also, City fans as a whole have EARNED this...

City fans have had to deal with the rags turning their noses up and heckling for a long time...even though they forget...they were s--- before too! Now, we have a team that we can be proud of. City has a history...not as glorious but every bit as colourful. We City fans have been through a lot, and YES I was a City fan BEFORE the money came.

City will continue to grow. Mancini has been brilliant as boss and has helped make this squad a TEAM. You can spend all the money you want...but unless you have the right boss in place to handle the egos...you wont win. A squad of individuals would never batter United 6-1 on their own pitch...Mancini has built a team of the best players that can win the league.

CTID!!!
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I'm no ManU guy, but at least they had some semblance of fiscal balance to their club. They just grew the club so large that they could spend a lot and still be relatively in balance (at least until the Glazers ran up debt in buying them). Chelski and City just flat out bought the best players around, regardless of cost and to say they didn't largely buy their titles is fantasy. Neither Chelski or City are on remotely financially sustainable trajectories. The moment their sugar daddy disappears, their capacity to compete is significantly impaired. Not the same with ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. Mancini has done well, but he's also had the luxury of buying most any player he wants. He's wasted more money in the transfer market the last couple years than most teams will in the last two decades. Same with Chelski, though they've dialed it back a bit recently. I'm happy for City fans, to an extent, but it'd be bitter sweet to me if Arsenal went that route. Not nearly as sweet as building your club with better moves, rather than endless funds.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Bob Gray said:
I'm no ManU guy, but at least they had some semblance of fiscal balance to their club. They just grew the club so large that they could spend a lot and still be relatively in balance (at least until the Glazers ran up debt in buying them). Chelski and City just flat out bought the best players around, regardless of cost and to say they didn't largely buy their titles is fantasy. Neither Chelski or City are on remotely financially sustainable trajectories. The moment their sugar daddy disappears, their capacity to compete is significantly impaired. Not the same with ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. Mancini has done well, but he's also had the luxury of buying most any player he wants. He's wasted more money in the transfer market the last couple years than most teams will in the last two decades. Same with Chelski, though they've dialed it back a bit recently. I'm happy for City fans, to an extent, but it'd be bitter sweet to me if Arsenal went that route. Not nearly as sweet as building your club with better moves, rather than endless funds.
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Did he say that? I certainly didn't. Rather, I think the opposite is true, everyone who wins the Premier League, or any league really, has bought their title. Yes, even dear old Arsenal back when they still won trophies. Ask a friend, he can explain the concept. :p

As for being unsustainable when the rich owner goes away, I would make two points. First, I don't think said owner going away is particularly likely. City's ownership isn't exactly made up of folks who quit on ventures easily. Second, now that a spot in the top 4 is (knock on wood) pretty solidly established, I very much doubt that even if they did decide to sell that City would have much trouble attracting a buyer.

Whoops, 3rd point I thought of while typing. City's academy is actually very good. They've had a hand in developing two first-teamers (Richards and Hart) and countless more now playing elsewhere. Part of the money being spent currently is actually going to upgrade the academy further. Not worried about it at all.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Bob Gray said:
I'm no ManU guy, but at least they had some semblance of fiscal balance to their club. They just grew the club so large that they could spend a lot and still be relatively in balance (at least until the Glazers ran up debt in buying them). Chelski and City just flat out bought the best players around, regardless of cost and to say they didn't largely buy their titles is fantasy. Neither Chelski or City are on remotely financially sustainable trajectories. The moment their sugar daddy disappears, their capacity to compete is significantly impaired. Not the same with ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. Mancini has done well, but he's also had the luxury of buying most any player he wants. He's wasted more money in the transfer market the last couple years than most teams will in the last two decades. Same with Chelski, though they've dialed it back a bit recently. I'm happy for City fans, to an extent, but it'd be bitter sweet to me if Arsenal went that route. Not nearly as sweet as building your club with better moves, rather than endless funds.
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You're talking about a club 400m GBP in debt.

For the most part...Mancini's buys have been good. When you're a club of the wealth of City - the transfer fee automatically inflates. James Milner is a prime example...even though lately he has looked like the 20m we paid.

Lets look at Mancini's buys...
Kolarov - playing very well alternating matches with Clichy. A beast down the left with a canon...good buy.
Boateng - oft injured and a poor presence in the dressing room...sold for a profit to Bayern
Silva - Best midfielder in the prem right now...worth EVERY penny
Dzeko - has drastically improved and is becomming a force
Aguero - 9 goals in 10 matches...enough said.
Savic - not a big money buy...but has the potential to be a big force in defense.
Clichy - has slotted in nicely this season.
Nasri - getting to know his teammates, once settled will improve more. Needs to learn Mancini's system more.
Balotelli - a total nutter, but his skill and talent are evident. His on field maturity is starting to improve...on his day the best on the pitch...United had no answer for him yesterday.

Mancini has bought very well. Hughes WASTED money...Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Bridge, Ben Haim. Tevez wasn't a bust...but his attitude is worse than Balo's...and became a major headache for Mancini.

City's owners are going nowhere. They are investing a billion in new training facilities, expanding the stadium and building up the area around the Etihad Stadium. Owners who do that aren't there for a short term run.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

WeWant said it best. Everyone buys titles. the key is making the shrewdest buys and ones that will make your team better. Any team can splash cash and make a ton of signings. (City back in the 70s and 80s.) However, they all have to work together. Chelsea has thrown a lot of money at managers and players, but the owner is a mob boss and has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to managers and players. The one think the Manchester clubs have in their favor is that the football men make the decisions and not an insane owner.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

WeWantMore said:
Did he say that? I certainly didn't. Rather, I think the opposite is true, everyone who wins the Premier League, or any league really, has bought their title. Yes, even dear old Arsenal back when they still won trophies. Ask a friend, he can explain the concept. :p

As for being unsustainable when the rich owner goes away, I would make two points. First, I don't think said owner going away is particularly likely. City's ownership isn't exactly made up of folks who quit on ventures easily. Second, now that a spot in the top 4 is (knock on wood) pretty solidly established, I very much doubt that even if they did decide to sell that City would have much trouble attracting a buyer.

Whoops, 3rd point I thought of while typing. City's academy is actually very good. They've had a hand in developing two first-teamers (Richards and Hart) and countless more now playing elsewhere. Part of the money being spent currently is actually going to upgrade the academy further. Not worried about it at all.
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How Arsenal and others won titles in the past is vastly different. If you can't see that, there's no point in saying anything further. Things were becoming more lopsided already, but Chelski and City have pushed that much further down the road. It used to be the EPL was about more than just who has the biggest sugardaddy. I sincerely hope that UEFA is serious about the financial rules and keeps City and Chelski out of the Champions League and such if they keep spending willy nilly.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Bob Gray said:
How Arsenal and others won titles in the past is vastly different. If you can't see that, there's no point in saying anything further. Things were becoming more lopsided already, but Chelski and City have pushed that much further down the road. It used to be the EPL was about more than just who has the biggest sugardaddy. I sincerely hope that UEFA is serious about the financial rules and keeps City and Chelski out of the Champions League and such if they keep spending willy nilly.
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Ha. City were one of the clubs who proposed the FFP rules. Good luck with that pipe dream. All FFP will do is keep the big clubs big and the small clubs small. It makes me laugh when a fan of one of the mid table teams (not talking about you here) taunts City about FFP. It's going to hurt them a lot more than it's going to hurt City.

Please, explain in detail how Arsenal winning was different. Did they not (a) pay transfer fees for players and (b) pay wages to those players? If they did, they bought the title by your logic.
 
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