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World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

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Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

How Arsenal and others won titles in the past is vastly different. If you can't see that, there's no point in saying anything further. Things were becoming more lopsided already, but Chelski and City have pushed that much further down the road. It used to be the EPL was about more than just who has the biggest sugardaddy. I sincerely hope that UEFA is serious about the financial rules and keeps City and Chelski out of the Champions League and such if they keep spending willy nilly.

If that's the case, enjoy Stoke getting knocked out out the qualifying stage by some club from Romania. :D
 
You know what? Salary caps are ****ing awesome.
And that would be why I could less about the EPL. When it's a big deal to finish fourth, something is wrong. You know how many teams have won the EPL? 4. You go back to 1980 for titles, it's 8. 1970? 10. 40 years, 10 teams, and one of them has gone bankrupt and went down to the third level just trying to keep up.

The best soccer on the world is meaningless when the majority of the games mean nothing.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

And that would be why I could less about the EPL. When it's a big deal to finish fourth, something is wrong. You know how many teams have won the EPL? 4. You go back to 1980 for titles, it's 8. 1970? 10. 40 years, 10 teams, and one of them has gone bankrupt and went down to the third level just trying to keep up.

The best soccer on the world is meaningless when the majority of the games mean nothing.

In terms of deciding the title perhaps, but I think you'd have a hard time telling Swansea and Wolves that their match this past weekend was meaningless, both of them being relegation contenders and all. Or fans of Manchester City and Spurs when they were fighting it out for fourth two years ago.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I thought the new FIFA rule about not spending more than you make was supposed to help fix parity?

Sure the big teams will still spend more money, because they make more. But it won't be at such a ridiculous rate.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I thought the new FIFA rule about not spending more than you make was supposed to help fix parity?

Sure the big teams will still spend more money, because they make more. But it won't be at such a ridiculous rate.

That's possible. But I think in order to have parity, some of the bottom teams also have to rise up. FFP will make it impossible for them to do so.

Take Everton for example. They currently don't have two pennies to rub together. Now, ordinarily, if they managed to get new ownership/the current ownership decided to spend money, they could have a decent shot at moving on up. FFP means that can't happen. Whatever Everton brings in (right now-not much) is what they'll have to spend. Enjoy being mid-table forever, Toffees.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

That's possible. But I think in order to have parity, some of the bottom teams also have to rise up. FFP will make it impossible for them to do so.

Take Everton for example. They currently don't have two pennies to rub together. Now, ordinarily, if they managed to get new ownership/the current ownership decided to spend money, they could have a decent shot at moving on up. FFP means that can't happen. Whatever Everton brings in (right now-not much) is what they'll have to spend. Enjoy being mid-table forever, Toffees.
As a fan of a team that has new ownership I can tell you thats no guarantee of spending. :mad: :mad:
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I thought the new FIFA rule about not spending more than you make was supposed to help fix parity?
That sounds like a terrible rule. Spending more than you make in order to improve is called investment. Capping spending on current revenue just means you freeze the Haves and Have Nots forever. Imagine a future that is nothing but Yankees-Red Sox, Dems-Republicans, and UNC-Duke. Bleech!

Edit: I see WWM has made my point already. Carry on... :D
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I thought the new FIFA rule about not spending more than you make was supposed to help fix parity?

Sure the big teams will still spend more money, because they make more. But it won't be at such a ridiculous rate.

Communist! ;)
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Ha. City were one of the clubs who proposed the FFP rules. Good luck with that pipe dream. All FFP will do is keep the big clubs big and the small clubs small. It makes me laugh when a fan of one of the mid table teams (not talking about you here) taunts City about FFP. It's going to hurt them a lot more than it's going to hurt City.

Please, explain in detail how Arsenal winning was different. Did they not (a) pay transfer fees for players and (b) pay wages to those players? If they did, they bought the title by your logic.
It's very simple. They had to more or less balance the books. City and Chelski don't remotely. Can't make it any simpler than that to explain. But, I know you know the point I'm making, you just don't like it.

City certainly haven't liked that UEFA is inquiring into their sponsorship deal, which is a thinly veiled attempt to put in place an end run of the upcoming financial rules. But, I doubt UEFA has the guts to really enforce them.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I thought the new FIFA rule about not spending more than you make was supposed to help fix parity?

Sure the big teams will still spend more money, because they make more. But it won't be at such a ridiculous rate.
I don't believe those rules have kicked in yet. I believe they do sometime in the next couple years.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Mancini has bought very well.
It's easy to buy well when you have hundreds of millions of pounds to buy whoever you want, see who works out well and who doesn't, and then you can afford to just write off 25 million pounds spent on Adebayor, 17.5 million pounds for Santa Cruz.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

I guess I'll stick to Football Manager, where i can force Blackburn to compete for big signings and win the EPL and Champions League every season! :D
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

It's easy to buy well when you have hundreds of millions of pounds to buy whoever you want, see who works out well and who doesn't, and then you can afford to just write off 25 million pounds spent on Adebayor, 17.5 million pounds for Santa Cruz.
To which the response will be that those were Hughes signings. Certainly Mancini has bought better than Hughes did, but yoru bottom line point is still legit, that Mancini has had an endless pot of money to buy who he wants at whatever price it takes. Mancini is due some credit for doing better than Hughes, but he's had resources that virtually no one else can dream of.

Until this recent exchange, I had never heard anyone claim that how City are pursuing a title is no different than many other clubs that have built teams in England and won titles. The USCHO forum never ceases to surprise.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

It's very simple. They had to more or less balance the books. City and Chelski don't remotely. Can't make it any simpler than that to explain. But, I know you know the point I'm making, you just don't like it.

City certainly haven't liked that UEFA is inquiring into their sponsorship deal, which is a thinly veiled attempt to put in place an end run of the upcoming financial rules. But, I doubt UEFA has the guts to really enforce them.

You seem to be under the impression that Arsenal have balanced books. As has already been pointed out to you, they are 136m pounds in debt.

Also, look at exactly what the City sponsorship deal entails. It is much, much, much, more comprehensive (in terms of not just rights to the stadium, but the surrounding areas, etc.) than other deals. If you think it's an end run, by all means present the facts to prove it. 'Til then, keep whining.

It's easy to buy well when you have hundreds of millions of pounds to buy whoever you want, see who works out well and who doesn't, and then you can afford to just write off 25 million pounds spent on Adebayor, 17.5 million pounds for Santa Cruz.

As Bob said, not bought by Mancini.

Until this recent exchange, I had never heard anyone claim that how City are pursuing a title is no different than many other clubs that have built teams in England and won titles. The USCHO forum never ceases to surprise.

And you still have yet to remotely come close to proving us wrong. Again, provide some evidence.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Um, those guys weren't bought by Mancini. Other than that, great point.
Granted, but the club has enough money to allow Mancini to write them off rather than, for instance, have the higher-ups tell him "hey, I know Dzeko is great, but Adebayor is almost as good and not even too much older, and we just dropped a lot of cash on him two years ago, so how about you try to make it work with him instead?"
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

Granted, but the club has enough money to allow Mancini to write them off rather than, for instance, have the higher-ups tell him "hey, I know Dzeko is great, but Adebayor is almost as good and not even too much older, and we just dropped a lot of cash on him two years ago, so how about you try to make it work with him instead?"

Yes, I think this is the fairest point one can make about City's spending. It gives them mulligans that other clubs don't get.

But, to my larger point, I'd argue that United, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal get similar mulligans as well. Perhaps not as many, but certainly enough for me not to buy this line of crap that City are the only team to ever "buy a title". That's how it's been for twenty years now.

To make an even larger point, as much as people like to moan about the money in the game and all that, I think folks ought to keep in mind that this eeeevil money is a large part of the reason we actually get to watch a whole smorgasboard of soccer on Saturdays and Sundays, so I'm not complaining too much.
 
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And you still have yet to remotely come close to proving us wrong. Again, provide some evidence.
More specifically: that Mancini has been successful in his signings in no way disproves that he has oodles of money at his disposal to just throw around. Without that money, he can't sign the right guys, ergo the teams success is bought and paid for.
 
Re: World Soccer XXI: Don't Tread on the Red, White, and Blue

You seem to be under the impression that Arsenal have balanced books. As has already been pointed out to you, they are 136m pounds in debt.

Also, look at exactly what the City sponsorship deal entails. It is much, much, much, more comprehensive (in terms of not just rights to the stadium, but the surrounding areas, etc.) than other deals. If you think it's an end run, by all means present the facts to prove it. 'Til then, keep whining.



As Bob said, not bought by Mancini.



And you still have yet to remotely come close to proving us wrong. Again, provide some evidence.
Arsenal having a modest amount of debt on the books relates to City and Chelski's wild spending in recent seasons exactly how? It's really funny that you'd try to argue Arsenal are in any way similar to City or Chelski. Of all the big English clubs, Arsenal are run the most fiscally conservatively. They over time make a profit in the transfer market, with their modest debt being related to things like redevelopment of Highbury and the new Emirates Stadium, both of which will easily pay back the modest debt in relatively short order. Your arguments have no financial legs to stand on.
 
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