World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Wooooooooooooo!!!!! Final 8!

Congrats, pretty horrid game but I loved the stalwart Tottenham defense. Did what they needed to do. Now let's see who UEFA places with Barcelona. If ManU and Chelsea advance, I expect they'll see Barca randomly paired with Tottenham.

 

[AMC]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Congrats, pretty horrid game but I loved the stalwart Tottenham defense. Did what they needed to do. Now let's see who UEFA places with Barcelona. If ManU and Chelsea advance, I expect they'll see Barca randomly paired with Tottenham.

Any time Spurs can put up a clean sheet, I'm happy. They have been few and far between this season.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I'll add, I think the discussion on BS is a little bit different from what is presented to be here. Yes, there's harsh criticism of Busacca (with a concurrent observation, backed by some history, that he seems predisposed to impose himself on big games in situations where such imposition is not called-for), but there's also an interesting note that it's impossible to evaluate timing from the U.S. broadcast of the game because of sync issues. (Doesn't mean RvP heard the whistle, just that the comment that "he only had a second from the whistle to shooting" argument may not actually be correct.)

Um, the 1 second stat initially came from a broadcaster interviewing Van Persie at the stadium. I doubt U.S. broadcast quality had anything to do with it.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

In non European news, the draw for the Gold Cup has been made:

Group A
Mexico
Costa Rica
El Salvador
Cuba

Group B
Honduras
Guatemala
Jamaica
Grenada

Group C
United States
Canada
Panama
Guadeloupe

US v. Canada in Detroit on June 7, might be fun.

At the Silverdome or at Ford Field??

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

At the Silverdome or at Ford Field??

Ford Field.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Ford Field.

Interesting, might have to look into getting tickets for that.

Tickets go on sale next Wednesday.

USA vs. Canada

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Yeah, hopefully there's a nice US presence there and some Canadians come down as well to make a fun atmosphere.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Um, the 1 second stat initially came from a broadcaster interviewing Van Persie at the stadium. I doubt U.S. broadcast quality had anything to do with it.

Interesting, thanks. That's what I get for going by the comments rather than watching myself.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Gee, CONCACAF, thanks for giving the NYC area an almost zero chance of a USA match despite the fact that we have two brand spanking new stadiums.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Gee, CONCACAF, thanks for giving the NYC area an almost zero chance of a USA match despite the fact that we have two brand spanking new stadiums.

Maybe they thought they would stand a shot at growing the game a little more if they spread Team USA around a little more than just in NYC.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Maybe they thought they would stand a shot at growing the game a little more if they spread Team USA around a little more than just in NYC.

What do you mean more than just in NYC? We didn't have a single match here in 2010 WCQ, or 2006 WCQ, or 2002 WCQ, or 1998 WCQ. We had the final of the 2009 and 2005 Gold Cups (i.e. the crappy off-year editions, did you see who was on the USA roster for the 2009 Gold Cup?), but no scheduled USA matches. Sure, they do friendlies, but it'd be nice to see a match that counts. On the other hand they play tons of matches in Seattle, KC, Chicago, Columbus, Foxboro, DC.

 

[pirate]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Well you do have to remember that Basketball has 3 refs on the court and you're nevermore than half a court away from the incident.

Agreed, so, in my opinion, what we shoud be witnessing is more no calls in the box because the ref didn't see the foul. Now they call fouls from 25 yards away when replay shows the player going down before little/any contact. If you don't see it, you don't call it. There is no way the refs see the call when it really was a dive, so what are they calling? the foul or the appearance of a foul? In baseball, if you didn't see the tag you don't assume that since the ball was there first he must have tagged him. I'd prefer to put some onus on the offensive player and let them know that they won't be getting any phantom calls. I think it would be good for the game all around. In my view we'd lose more bs pk goals due to dives than we'd lose legit pk chances due to no calls. O course the boards would switch from complaints about dives to complaints about muggings. It's a tradeoff I'm willing to make

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I've said this before, but there's no way D.C. should have any U.S. matches at all if they're being held at RFK. I don't care about its history, the place is a dump and D.C. shouldn't be rewarded for its stadium inactivity.

Edit: I'm not sure I agree with you though with regards to games that count. I mean, would you really rather have a game v. Grenada that counts (as Seattle did in 2009) than a friendly v. Argentina or Brazil that doesn't? Not so sure I would.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I'll add, I think the discussion on BS is a little bit different from what is presented to be here. Yes, there's harsh criticism of Busacca (with a concurrent observation, backed by some history, that he seems predisposed to impose himself on big games in situations where such imposition is not called-for), but there's also an interesting note that it's impossible to evaluate timing from the U.S. broadcast of the game because of sync issues. (Doesn't mean RvP heard the whistle, just that the comment that "he only had a second from the whistle to shooting" argument may not actually be correct.)

Nice dodge. Expected.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Bob... I fully expected EVERYTHING that happened yesterday. 5 yellows for Arsenal? You betcha. 0 for Barca? Sure... they are at the Nou Camp ... like the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. I am disappointed, but hardly surprised. S hit... did you see the non-penalty call in the Sunderland-Arsenal game (I posted it on this thread)?? Hell, if Arsenal can't even get that call AT HOME, how in the hell were they ever going to get an even shake vs Barca at the Nou Camp?!! LOL! I am not mad... as I said... it was to be expected.

I've never said it wasn't expected. Just because it was expected doesn't mean it isn't frustrating that the teams aren't allowed to decide it on the pitch. Really no different than when a major call is botched in the Super Bowl or wherever. But I think soccer is less willing to question when things go awry than some other sports. UEFA's only reaction I've seen it to charge Wenger and Nasri.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I've never said it wasn't expected. Just because it was expected doesn't mean it isn't frustrating that the teams aren't allowed to decide it on the pitch. Really no different than when a major call is botched in the Super Bowl or wherever. But I think soccer is less willing to question when things go awry than some other sports. UEFA's only reaction I've seen it to charge Wenger and Nasri.

Oh come on though. Going by what happened on the pitch, Arsenal had no business advancing anyway. They didn't take a single shot the whole game (including the portion before the absurd sending off), they had the ball less than a quarter of the time, spent 70% of the match in their own half. Yes, obviously that's skewed by the red card, but even before that they were getting massively outplayed.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Oh come on though. Going by what happened on the pitch, Arsenal had no business advancing anyway. They didn't take a single shot the whole game (including the portion before the absurd sending off), they had the ball less than a quarter of the time, spent 70% of the match in their own half. Yes, obviously that's skewed by the red card, but even before that they were getting massively outplayed.

Going by what happened on the pitch, Arsenal were ahead on aggregate when Van Persie was sent off. Barca only tied it back up and went ahead when Arsenal was down a man. It is very conceivable that Arsenal could have hung on for at least a draw. They grab another away goal somehow (more likely Van Persie still in there), and Barca has a real uphill climb. Few teams that go to Nou Camp aren't significantly outplayed and don't park the bus. The whole line of thinking that Van Persie's sending off is somehow less ridiculous and offensive because Barca had the better of play ignores who was ahead when he was sent off and what one should reasonably expect to see from a visiting team at Nou Camp who leads after the first leg. I hope to hear you speaking out in the future against all those who come to Emirates and park the bus against Arsenal.

Wenger gets blasted when his team plays beautiful football to the possible detriment of winning more matches and getting more points. Then he gets blasted when he makes tactically wise moves when visiting a team that is probably the best in the world, with a slim lead after the first leg. People should at least pick one or the other to criticize him on, but he gets it from both ways. He would have been stupid to play Barca straight up at Nou Camp, especially with injuries and all to his side.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

Going by what happened on the pitch, Arsenal were ahead on aggregate when Van Persie was sent off. Barca only tied it back up and went ahead when Arsenal was down a man. It is very conceivable that Arsenal could have hung on for at least a draw. They grab another away goal somehow (more likely Van Persie still in there), and Barca has a real uphill climb. Few teams that go to Nou Camp aren't significantly outplayed and don't park the bus. The whole line of thinking that Van Persie's sending off is somehow less ridiculous and offensive because Barca had the better of play ignores who was ahead when he was sent off and what one should reasonably expect to see from a visiting team at Nou Camp who leads after the first leg. I hope to hear you speaking out in the future against all those who come to Emirates and park the bus against Arsenal.

I'm not saying that the sending off is less ridiculous because Barca had the better of play, nor am I saying that parking the bus is an invalid tactic when you expect that to happen, frustrating though it can be. What I'm saying is, if the teams were left alone to decide that match on the pitch, Barcelona would've won 99 times out of 100 anyway. I mean, Arsenal were only even in it because they got an absurd stroke of luck on the own goal. They weren't generating anything of their own on the counter, even in the first half.

Who's blasting Wenger for playing a defensive style?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

I'm not saying that the sending off is less ridiculous because Barca had the better of play, nor am I saying that parking the bus is an invalid tactic when you expect that to happen, frustrating though it can be. What I'm saying is, if the teams were left alone to decide that match on the pitch, Barcelona would've won 99 times out of 100 anyway. I mean, Arsenal were only even in it because they got an absurd stroke of luck on the own goal. They weren't generating anything of their own on the counter, even in the first half.

Who's blasting Wenger for playing a defensive style?

There's a lot of commentary out there saying that Barca deserves to win and all, so no big deal that Van Persie was sent off. Go look at the Guardian. Practically every story has that spin to one extent or another.

You put Arsenal out there with a 3-2 aggregate lead with 35 minutes to go, and I assure you that Barca doesn't come out on top 99 of 100 times. That was the reality on the pitch when the call was blown. Yes, they didn't do much of anything in the first half, but they had looked better in the second half, prior to the sending off. Barca's only goal in the first 55 minutes was the absolute howler pass from Fabregas. They hadn't created a goal on their own in 55 minutes. Barca needed two goals to take the lead in the tie at the time of the sending off, so they'd be pressing forward more and more toward the end, and all you have to do is look at the first leg in London to see what Arsenal could potentially do. Arsenal nicks one goal on a counterattack, and now Barca need three goals to win on aggregate, a tall order. The match was there to be taken either direction when the call was blown.

 

[AMC]

Re: World Soccer XIX- Full of Pomp-ey and Circumstance

What do you mean more than just in NYC? We didn't have a single match here in 2010 WCQ, or 2006 WCQ, or 2002 WCQ, or 1998 WCQ. We had the final of the 2009 and 2005 Gold Cups (i.e. the crappy off-year editions, did you see who was on the USA roster for the 2009 Gold Cup?), but no scheduled USA matches. Sure, they do friendlies, but it'd be nice to see a match that counts. On the other hand they play tons of matches in Seattle, KC, Chicago, Columbus, Foxboro, DC.

To me it seemed like they hadn't been to Foxborough in a while so I looked up where they have been in the past 4 years (*=non-friendly):

4: NYC: 3/6/11 Argentina @ Meadowlands, 8/10/10 Brazil @ Meadowlands, 7/26/09 Mexico @ Old Giants*, 6/8/08 Argentina @ Old Giants
4: LA: 1/23/10 Honduras @ Carson, 1/24/09 Sweden @ Carson, 1/19/08 Sweden @ Carson, 6/15/08 Barbados @ Carson*
4: Chicago: 10/9/10 Poland, 6/6/09 Honduras*, 7/23/09 Honduras*, 9/10/08 Trinidad & Tobago @ Toyota Park*
3: Philadelphia: 5/29/10 Turkey @ Lincoln Financial, 10/12/10 Colombia @ PPL Park, 7/18/09 Panama @ Lincoln Financial*
3: Washington: 7/8/09 Honduras*, 10/14/09 Costa Rica*, 10/11/08 Cuba*
2: Tampa: 6/11/11 Panama*, 2/24/10 El Salvador
2: Nashville: 3/29/11 Paraguay, 4/1/09 Trinidad and Tobago
1: Detroit: 6/7/11 Canada*
1: Kansas City: 6/14/11 Guadeloupe*
1: Hartford: 5/25/10 Czech Republic
1: Columbus: 2/11/09 Mexico*
1: Seattle: 7/4/09 Grenada*
1: Foxborough: 7/11/09 Haiti*
1: Salt Lake City: 9/5/09 El Salvador*
1: Houston: 2/6/08 Mexico
1: Denver: 11/19/08 Guatemala*

It's hard to say that NYC is getting shortchanged, they have played the most matches there in the past 4 years, tied with the other two largest cities in the country. Personally, I would rather see Argentina (x2), Brazil and Mexico (I realize that one has a caveat) than three January friendlies with northern Europeans and a WCQ against Barbados (like LA), or Poland and three "competitives" against Honduras x2 and Trinidad. Philly three times is defensible, and Washington IS our capital and didn't really get anything big except Costa Rica. Tampa and Nashville getting second looks this summer is kind of odd, but of the one offs Canada in Detroit makes perfect sense, KC hasn't seen anything in a while (and don't even get a real country), Hartford (CZE friendly) seems to be displacing Foxborough as the New England site of choice, I don't think any of us want Mexico anywhere BUT Columbus for February WCQs, Mexico in Houston is a cash cow, and Seattle, SLC and Denver have all earned occasional appearances due to MLS support (Seattle probably has the biggest argument for getting shortchanged, but the turf field hurts them).

The GC knock out rounds don't alter things too much, MAYBE they should have switched the US to E. Rutherford instead of DC, but DC also hasn't hosted the US since the Davies incident in '09. Houston is logical for the semis, to earn some pesos, and the LA area hasn't seen a whole lot recently so the final there makes sense.