World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Ratings for US-Slovenia Very Good

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

So having seen all but 1 game (stupid ESPN2 taking a random game). I was thinking about which matches have been the most entertaining.

What are your top matches for entertainment (teams, rooting interests, scores not withstanding)?

I think my top ones in no order are:

USA/Slovenia: Gut wrenching to watch as a USA fan, but amazingly entertaining game.

Argentina/South Korea: High scoring affair and I didn't think Korea deserved that outcome as they played better than the scoreline.

Denmark/Cameroon: No defense, but a lot of exciting play.

Chile/Honduras: Total mismatch, but it was fun to watch Chile play the beautiful game.

Others in the mix: Germany/Australia, Brazil/North Korea

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

USA Slovenia and Cameroon-Denmark were the best ones I saw, but I missed Argentina-South Korea.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

That's great to hear the games are garnering these ratings this early on. To even begin to see it nearly touching the US-Germany match.

I'll never forget that. We watched it on this crappy 13" black and white TV at a border crossing between the czech republic and austria on the way to hungary. 25-30 people crammed into and around a tiny guard shack watching it. One of my favorite soccer memories ever.

 

[burgie12]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Now, I hate to say this, but I think overall we were lucky to get this referee. He obviously blew the Edu goal, but he gave us a much greater gift by not sending off Dempsey in the first ten seconds of the match. I have no doubt 90% of the referees at the World Cup would have shown him red for that elbow. I'll take a tie with Slovenia over not seeing Dempsey until the quarter-finals. Not that we'd ever make it that far without him.

The ref blowing the Dempsey call (he deserved to be booked, if not sent off), just confirms to me that the ref was terrible and did not deserve to be a participant in the World Cup.

All that said, I'd rather that we had this ref than the one for the Germany / Serbia match. His card-happy antics likely cost the Germans a chance at a victory.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Doesn't meet the standards for a red card in my opinion.

You'd think the SAME thing if it was one of your precious englishmen...

I've seen a lot of games and seen a lot of red cards for what Dempsey did.


I hate English soccer more than most people, but I think we Americans are the ones missing this.

When that American referee [Baharmast, I think] made his mysterious call back in 1998, we were all defending him saying that just because it wasn't on the TV replay, doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. Baharmast was sent home in disgrace and then later a photo was found of the foul. Baharmast was vindicated, but he never really refereed a high level match again. We Americans were all outraged...

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

I thought Switzerland-Spain was pretty decent in terms of excitement as well.

Edit: Again on Dempsey, I think common sense has to come into play a little bit here. It was 30 seconds into the match, why in the world would he maliciously and intentionally elbow someone in the head? Yellow? Sure. I think a red would have been pretty harsh though.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Edit: Again on Dempsey, I think common sense has to come into play a little bit here. It was 30 seconds into the match, why in the world would he maliciously and intentionally elbow someone in the head? Yellow? Sure. I think a red would have been pretty harsh though.

I agree with your sentiments, but I know that a lot of referees would have shown red. I think Busacca and Benquerença both would have shown red. Howard Webb probably would have as well and the top three or four Spanish referees.

All I'm really arguing is that I'm happy to take the bad call on the no-goal in exchange for no red on Dempsey. Clint dodged a bullet. Thank you Mali.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

I thought Switzerland-Spain was pretty decent in terms of excitement as well.

Edit: Again on Dempsey, I think common sense has to come into play a little bit here. It was 30 seconds into the match, why in the world would he maliciously and intentionally elbow someone in the head? Yellow? Sure. I think a red would have been pretty harsh though.

It doesn't matter if it was 30 seconds in, a lot of refs would have given him a red for the extension. If not malicious it was certainly ridiculously negligent and reckless for him to go into the challenge like that. If the guy had bled, sayonara.

Who was the person who said the ref just blew? burgie12? Totally right. But then it goes back to what I said before the WC and have complained about for years: Fifa has to stop limiting the refs to one country a piece in representation and letting clearly inferior refs ref in the World Cup when there are 0 Americans and 1 Englishman. That really makes sense?

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

I've seen a lot of games and seen a lot of red cards for what Dempsey did.


I hate English soccer more than most people, but I think we Americans are the ones missing this.

When that American referee [Baharmast, I think] made his mysterious call back in 1998, we were all defending him saying that just because it wasn't on the TV replay, doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. Baharmast was sent home in disgrace and then later a photo was found of the foul. Baharmast was vindicated, but he never really refereed a high level match again. We Americans were all outraged...

The internet being what is today and with the miracle of DVR coupled with message boards to disseminate the information, I don't think this particular screw up will ever be vindicated. I've seen a number of attempts to find a foul from multiple angles, and one simply can't. Not to mention Barhmast at least had the decency to explain or mention what he called to the players on the field. Couriabaly's inability or unwillingness to clarify anything about the incident is very, very suspicious (that he royally f'ed up, not that a conspiracy is a foot)

 

[redwing77]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

What if someone found getting drunk offensive and wanted to ban tailgating? Or if they found "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" offensive for some reason? It's a tradition. I honestly don't think we have any right to go in and tell someone they can't celebrate the way they normally do.

First off: If being drunk at sporting events constitutes a "tradition" why are you seemingly ok or even proud of this? The reason why this isn't banned, quite honestly is two things:

1. The drinkers won't come and if they don't come
2. There goes the profit margin

Oh, and you can tailgate successfully and not get drunk doing it. However, succeeding in that regard doesn't seem to be all that commonly publicized.

Second, "Take me out to the ballgame" has been around before 2001 (or 9 years whatever). This argument seems to be your strongest, but there are outs on this one. First off, they tried it. Look at the baseball season of 2002 and the tail end of 2001? They didn't sing that. Instead, they sung "America the Beautiful." So, I get what you're saying here.

Lastly, you state "celebrate." Is just being on the field celebratory enough, then? Because they blow it ALL GAME LONG. This isn't celebratory. This is noise. If they blew it when their team scored, or their goalkeeper made a big save, or they won or tied a game... I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone would be mentioning the vevuzelas.

I guess I should be a bit more sensitive about traditions. I mean, Japanese baseball is full of those stupid inflated stick thingies that they bang together but I don't know how loud those get in comparison.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

It hit him at the very top of his arm where his shoulder meets his body. If he for example had his arms behind his back, it would have still hit him in the arm. At that point, what was he supposed to do?

In that case, it's not only not a red, it's not a foul (and penalty) at all. The ref will catch a ton of flack as Dallas did, but it's at least a defensible decision (one that I might even defend, in fact).

The trouble for Kewell is, if you watch the replay, he pretty clearly spreads the arm that contacts the ball wide as the Ghanaian lines up the shot, so if there's hand/ball contact, I'd expect the ref to already be inclined to it being handling. And a side view replay makes it look as though the ball hits in the crook of his elbow, rather than near his shoulder.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

When that American referee [Baharmast, I think] made his mysterious call back in 1998, we were all defending him saying that just because it wasn't on the TV replay, doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. Baharmast was sent home in disgrace and then later a photo was found of the foul. Baharmast was vindicated, but he never really refereed a high level match again. We Americans were all outraged...

Difference between 1998 is the camera angle that was used to show that Baharmast made the right call was not available or used in live TV broadcast, now it's standard, along with 40 million other angles.

Also, Baharmast never refereed a high level match again because he retired not long after as he was almost at mandatory retirement age (he was 44 at France 98, 45 is retirement age). He then became the Director of Referees at US Soccer, Director of Officials for CONCACAF, and a FIFA Instructor. So it's not like he disappeared.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

He went in recklessly.

Uh, no. He was dribbling, took a misstep, landed on the ball, went over it and into the Slovenian player.

(Or am I mistaken about which play broke the guy's ankle?)

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Uh, no. He was dribbling, took a misstep, landed on the ball, went over it and into the Slovenian player.

(Or am I mistaken about which play broke the guy's ankle?)

No that's the play. I don't why it's even be discussed.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

I said it, but it's nice to see someone agree with me! Even though jim and Craig are conveniently not posting much on the elbow subject.

Should have been yellow. I would have defended a red; when I saw the replay, I said (paraphrasing), "He's lucky he isn't walking for that." (You could tell from the exchange immediately after the challenge that Dempsey was getting off with nothing.)

(It's just another symptom of the ref being in way over his head.)

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

It doesn't matter if it was 30 seconds in, a lot of refs would have given him a red for the extension. If not malicious it was certainly ridiculously negligent and reckless for him to go into the challenge like that. If the guy had bled, sayonara.

Ok TBA, clearly you are amateur on this when it's to knowledge about refereing. a) Dempsey didn't extend his arms, he brought them up as part of the act of jumping in the air for the ball. He didn't swing, he didn't extend. A caution certainly would've been warranted but a send off would've been harsh but not unheard of granted. b) Key phrases to remember in deciding for a card: careless = foul, reckless = caution, excessive force = send off.

Who was the person who said the ref just blew? burgie12? Totally right. But then it goes back to what I said before the WC and have complained about for years: Fifa has to stop limiting the refs to one country a piece in representation and letting clearly inferior refs ref in the World Cup when there are 0 Americans and 1 Englishman. That really makes sense?

First off, FIFA did not limit each country to one referee crew, Mexico has two in the tournament (Archundia and Rodriguez) as does Uruguay (Larrionda and Vazquez) and New Zealand (Hester and O'Leary).

As for American referees please name me one that deserved to go to South Africa. Closest one is Prus, Marrufo has sucked the 18 months before and screwed the pooch with his Blanco jersey incident and Terry Vaughn could've been considered as well but I don't see him as better.

Reality is they've actually done a good job of selected referees beyond Coulibaly, who pre tournament on paper looked like a good pick (he reffed the African Cup of Nations Final this year) but thrown into the situation and didn't measure up, not the first time that will happen, not the last. The only other incidents have been from European referees from the Big 3 leagues (Rosetti from Italy and the Kewell send off and Mallenco from Spain and the Klose send off).

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Ok TBA, clearly you are amateur on this when it's to knowledge about refereing. a) Dempsey didn't extend his arms, he brought them up as part of the act of jumping in the air for the ball. He didn't swing, he didn't extend. A caution certainly would've been warranted but a send off would've been harsh but not unheard of granted. b) Key phrases to remember in deciding for a card: careless = foul, reckless = caution, excessive force = send off.


First off, FIFA did not limit each country to one referee crew, Mexico has two in the tournament (Archundia and Rodriguez) as does Uruguay (Larrionda and Vazquez) and New Zealand (Hester and O'Leary).

As for American referees please name me one that deserved to go to South Africa. Closest one is Prus, Marrufo has sucked the 18 months before and screwed the pooch with his Blanco jersey incident and Terry Vaughn could've been considered as well but I don't see him as better.

Reality is they've actually done a good job of selected referees beyond Coulibaly, who pre tournament on paper looked like a good pick (he reffed the African Cup of Nations Final this year) but thrown into the situation and didn't measure up, not the first time that will happen, not the last. The only other incidents have been from European referees from the Big 3 leagues (Rosetti from Italy and the Kewell send off and Mallenco from Spain and the Klose send off).

Wicked good reply. It reeks of knowledge on the subject.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Not to mention Barhmast at least had the decency to explain or mention what he called to the players on the field. Couriabaly's inability or unwillingness to clarify anything about the incident is very, very suspicious (that he royally f'ed up, not that a conspiracy is a foot)

This is probably the heart of it, although I don't know whether Couriabaly has been forthcoming with reasons previously. The BBC crew I was listening to seemed to feel like lack of an explanation was SOP for FIFA.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Re: World Soccer XIV: Where JV keepers can play in the World Cup - Group Stages continued

Is Prus even an international referee? I agree he's probably the best one in MLS, but I don't think he's on the FIFA list.