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World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

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Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Leo Messi is good at this game:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yU5c1Jqdz0I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yU5c1Jqdz0I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

MountieBoyOz said:
Terrier, Italian clubs are filled with primadonnas. All Italian clubs have that snotty we're better than the English attitude. Milan is the biggest offender, though. That's why enjoy seeing Man United (Us United fans hate it when you refer to the club as Man U. We aren't a University club.) dominate Italian clubs.
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Never heard of the "Man U" issue before. We've called them that around here for years, including our resident longtime reasonable ManU fan, Nathan. When I've been in England, I've heard people of all stripes call them ManU, without any negative connotation or anything. :confused: There's a lot of better things to get worked up about than how one shortens the name of Manchester United.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

I know that a lot of hardcore Red Devils fans hate the Man U nickname. They'd rather be called United or Man United. I'd still rather support them then the CCCP errr... Chelsea.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

MountieBoyOz said:
I know that a lot of hardcore Red Devils fans hate the Man U nickname. They'd rather be called United or Man United. I'd still rather support them then the CCCP errr... Chelsea.
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Thankfully supporting ManU and Chelski aren't the only options! :)

Or else maybe I'd take up crocheting or something.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

The good news: Chelsea are about to lose.
The bad news: It's to an Italian team.

"Mixed emotions, buddy. Like Larry Wildman going off a cliff in my new Maserati."
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Priceless said:
The good news: Chelsea are about to lose.
The bad news: It's to an Italian team.

"Mixed emotions, buddy. Like Larry Wildman going off a cliff in my new Maserati."
Click to expand...

Another bonus: only one Italian team remains. And if Stuttgart pull the improbable, there will be no more Spaniards either.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Dosvidanya, Chelski. I'll take any Italian team (even Milan) over Chelski. Roman will probably go mad and do something stupid. Looks like United will have to Man Up (pun intended) and knock out Inter.

The prospect of no Spanish teams makes me happy too.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

blockski said:
Arrrrrggh.




Yeah, earlier indications were that the first player vote was 2/3rds for a strike and 1/3 against it, breaking almost exactly in terms of player nationality.

I also agree that the players are barking up the wrong tree here. I am sympathetic to the cause, but free agency is simply not going to happen. I don't think fully guaranteed contracts should, either - perhaps they need more of a signing bonus type deal, or guarantee contracts for one season at a time. I'm also sympathetic to some of the player movement issues that do not involve free agency - like how a team can control a player even if they aren't under contract.

But, if they strike, it'll be one of the stupidest possible outcomes. The league has great momentum off last season - Seattle has huge buzz and big crowds, Salt Lake just opened a new stadium and now has a championship for their trophy case - we're about to bring a new team into the league in Philly, also with strong ticket sales and we'll see two brand new, soccer-only stadiums opening in Philly and New York - not to mention the obvious tie-ins with the World Cup.

Any sort of a work stoppage is unacceptable.
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The way that I see it from whats come out in the press is that basically most of the older American players are being selfish aholes and everybody else gets to suffer.

Instead of going after things that would help everybody, raise in the minimum salary, raise in the minimum salary for developmental players, raise in the salary cap, they want things that really only mean a nice payday for them. Guarateed contracts for when they get cut, Free Agency so they can start a bidding war for the suckers who want them. It's ridiculous and selfish and because of their selfishness now there's a chance nobody will have a job.

I understand their want to change things with they way MLS works. But the fact remains that a) nobody in this country, and for the most part worldwide, really cares about this league in the grand scheme of things and b) most of the teams really are losing money. Seattle and Toronto are doing ok and making money. New York might make money this year. LA might make money this year. Dallas and Columbus might not lose much. But every other team is going to lose money. And now the players want to change the system that's keeping everybody afloat outright (despite anything they say, free agency = Single Entity gone). Who's ever leading the Players needs to be fired, because he's basically leading them to unemployment.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

MountieBoyOz said:
Dosvidanya, Chelski. I'll take any Italian team (even Milan) over Chelski. Roman will probably go mad and do something stupid. Looks like United will have to Man Up (pun intended) and knock out Inter.

The prospect of no Spanish teams makes me happy too.
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I'd love to see Barcalona knocked out.

Other than the Premiership, the only league with a chance at getting two representatives to the quarterfinals is Ligue 1 :eek:
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Jimjamesak said:
The way that I see it from whats come out in the press is that basically most of the older American players are being selfish aholes and everybody else gets to suffer.

Instead of going after things that would help everybody, raise in the minimum salary, raise in the minimum salary for developmental players, raise in the salary cap, they want things that really only mean a nice payday for them. Guarateed contracts for when they get cut, Free Agency so they can start a bidding war for the suckers who want them. It's ridiculous and selfish and because of their selfishness now there's a chance nobody will have a job.

I understand their want to change things with they way MLS works. But the fact remains that a) nobody in this country, and for the most part worldwide, really cares about this league in the grand scheme of things and b) most of the teams really are losing money. Seattle and Toronto are doing ok and making money. New York might make money this year. LA might make money this year. Dallas and Columbus might not lose much. But every other team is going to lose money. And now the players want to change the system that's keeping everybody afloat outright (despite anything they say, free agency = Single Entity gone). Who's ever leading the Players needs to be fired, because he's basically leading them to unemployment.
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Exactly. Free Agency means the end of single entity, which has single handedly (pardon) allowed the league to continue its existence though the 2000-2002 rough patch. The league is growing but it's nowhere near stable enough for individual teams to be outbidding each other for players.

Plus, they're really going to ruin the opening of places like this?

<object width="600" height="338"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10207459&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10207459&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="600" height="338"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10207459">New York's First Practice at Red Bull Arena</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/mlsinsider">mlsinsider</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

We've got the ultimate sign of the investment in the sport in the US right here, and they want to try and cash in early. Dumb move.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

blockski said:
We've got the ultimate sign of the investment in the sport in the US right here, and they want to try and cash in early. Dumb move.
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Exactly. I think if the players had been hardball over things like salary cap levels and minimum salaries then they would have a lot more support. Do things now that will help grow the league and everybody's contracts instead of selfish pay day for a few elite players.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Like I said, I'm sympathetic to some of their demands regarding player movement - particularly for players that have been cut. I'd even be in favor of guaranteeing salaries for a calendar year or something like that.

I actually think the owners will be quite willing to up the investment in player salaries, too - once we get over the hump of the recession.

But I cannot support any move by the players (such as free agency) that would jeopardize the league's structure. Single entity has allowed the league to survive and grow - and weather this recession. It is the reason they've got guys lined up to invest in expansion franchises, and it's the same reason that Red Bull was willing to dump all those dollars into their fancy new playground - because they know they'll get a return on that investment.

So, you'll get no argument from me that the players deserve a bigger piece of the pie - but not at the expense of chef that made it.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

blockski said:
Exactly. Free Agency means the end of single entity, which has single handedly (pardon) allowed the league to continue its existence though the 2000-2002 rough patch. The league is growing but it's nowhere near stable enough for individual teams to be outbidding each other for players.

Plus, they're really going to ruin the opening of places like this?

<object width="600" height="338"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10207459&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10207459&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="600" height="338"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10207459">New York's First Practice at Red Bull Arena</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/mlsinsider">mlsinsider</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

We've got the ultimate sign of the investment in the sport in the US right here, and they want to try and cash in early. Dumb move.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a stadium. Looks awesome, might have to make the trip down for a game, if they actually end up playing.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Freddie Ljundberg's thoughts:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=756341&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901

Imagine you work at Burger King and you get sacked. Now, you want to get another job at McDonald's, but you're not allowed to unless McDonald's compensates Burger King. It seems absurd, but that's the way certain things work in MLS at the moment. If your team terminates your contract, it still can demand a trade from another club before you can go and play for that other club.

The CBA, for me personally, is a sad saga. I was told it would be settled when I came back to the USA in January. Now it plays a lot on the minds of players in the preseason because we don't know if the first game is going to be played on March 25 or not. If it isn't, it will be a very sad day for players and fans in this country.

Coming from Europe, maybe I see it differently, as I've been playing under FIFA rules my whole life, but the players just want those rights. If we keep the wage cap, it shouldn't put the league in economic jeopardy as it won't cost the league any more money than what it has already agreed to.


One thing for me that is very confusing is what happens after a player's contract is up. I find it amazing that even after your club lets your contract run out without renewing, it still has all the power and still owns the player's rights.
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Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Freddie Ljundberg's thoughts:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=756341&sec=mls&root=mls&cc=5901
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Shocking that Freddie doesn't understand corporate structure or the details of US anti-trust law. His summary is laughably flawed, but this is more posturing than anything else.

The owners seem to be coming together with statements by Roth (Seattle) and Liewenke(Galaxy) that this could kill MLS. While thats a bit of hyperbole, its worth pointing out that this shoots down the idea that there was a division in the ownership between rich and poor clubs on how to precede. A great quote by Joe Roth was "You can't outwait a billionaire", certainly not an MLS player who made 50,000 dollars last season and may have to go looking for work in a recession hit economy. Good luck with that.
 
Re: World Soccer XII: South Africa Awaits

Injury-depleted Barcelona (without Xavi or Abidal, Ibrahimovic limited to the bench) are up 2-0 on Stuttgart at halftime (3-1 aggregate) on goals from Messi and Pedro. It'd take a pretty surprising collapse for them not to advance at this point.
 
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