Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

that argument has little to no merit. The east proves its good by teams beating top teams in the east. the west teams should be able to prove on their own that they are a top team by beating up on everyone else. Do we not recall the gusties being No. 1 last year? It can happen. This season? Not so much.

So because we don't have a team that has only one loss in our region (oh wait we do) that means that our region as a whole is worse. What having three teams with 2 or less losses tells me is that you guys have 3 teams that are better than everyone else....and a bunch of "others." When you have 6 or 7 teams that can beat eachother on any given night, that signifies strength...IMHO

When you have 3 teams that no one else can beat...that means you have 3 good teams. And maybe those 3 are better than the west, maybe not. They haven't played so we don't know.

 

[nyi19]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

So because we don't have a team that has only one loss in our region (oh wait we do) that means that our region as a whole is worse. What having three teams with 2 or less losses tells me is that you guys have 3 teams that are better than everyone else....and a bunch of "others." When you have 6 or 7 teams that can beat eachother on any given night, that signifies strength...IMHO

When you have 3 teams that no one else can beat...that means you have 3 good teams. And maybe those 3 are better than the west, maybe not. They haven't played so we don't know.

so then, again, what about gustavus last year? No. 1 for many weeks leading up to the end of the season without having played an eastern team. Why? Because they dominated the west. if someone stood up and truly dominated all year, it could happen again. that wasn't the case this year.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

so then, again, what about gustavus last year? No. 1 for many weeks leading up to the end of the season without having played an eastern team. Why? Because they dominated the west. if someone stood up and truly dominated all year, it could happen again. that wasn't the case this year.

And what happened to Gustavus in the first round of the NCAA playoffs? Something that has never happened to a top eastern team.

I also don't understand the argument that a team has to dominate the west in order to be number 1. So the only way a western team will ever be in consideration is if they dominate the world. The only reason Gustavus achieved #1 last year was because they handled Amherst...The #1 before that.

 

[westeast]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

so then, again, what about gustavus last year? No. 1 for many weeks leading up to the end of the season without having played an eastern team. Why? Because they dominated the west. if someone stood up and truly dominated all year, it could happen again. that wasn't the case this year.

This may be the first year in along time that the West has so much parity. So does that make our teams so so ? no.

Parity is what makes the west this year a blast to watch all the great games.

 

[LadyFalconsFan]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

so then, again, what about gustavus last year? No. 1 for many weeks leading up to the end of the season without having played an eastern team. Why? Because they dominated the west. if someone stood up and truly dominated all year, it could happen again. that wasn't the case this year.

what happened? you guys fed their egos too much. they thought they were number one material. everybody thought they were. except for st. thomas (who beat them in one of the first games of the season last year) and RF (who beat them to go to the frozen four). but you weren't able to make those games, or any other west game for that matter. thus not knowing the truth of the skill out here. everybody thought RF was going to dominate the west this year. anything can happen though.

again i'll state that the top 5-6 DO deserve to be east teams. their records and teams they've beaten back it up. and yet again we have easterners bashing westerners and refusing to believe there's any skill here. and we have easterners admitting that we don't deserve to be number one. that the east does indeed have some better teams. i would like to commend us on being humble, but that itself isn't very humble. you get my drift though.

 

[nbound]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

WELL SAID. I GUESS I AM EAST COAST BIASED TOO.
ADRIAN GETS DRUBBED OUT HERE BY MID PACK EASTERN TEAMS AND LAKE FOREST LOSES TO UMASS BOSTON. WHAT ELSE CAN I GO ON.[/QUOTE

The SAME TEAM THAT BEAT MIDDLEBURY

 

[valiantfan08]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

WELL SAID. I GUESS I AM EAST COAST BIASED TOO.
ADRIAN GETS DRUBBED OUT HERE BY MID PACK EASTERN TEAMS AND LAKE FOREST LOSES TO UMASS BOSTON. WHAT ELSE CAN I GO ON.[/QUOTE

The SAME TEAM THAT BEAT MIDDLEBURY

Actually Middlebury beat them 7-2
And Mville beat them 6-2
And Norwich beat them 6-0
And Trinity beat them 3-0

AND LF lost 3-1.....

All teams that should be above Lake Forest based on common opponent.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Actually Middlebury beat them 7-2
And Mville beat them 6-2
And Norwich beat them 6-0
And Trinity beat them 3-0

AND LF lost 3-1.....

All teams that should be above Lake Forest based on common opponent.

I think he was referring to Bowdoin

1 game does not make a season, if that were the case the 16 teams that beat Colby should be ranked ahead of Amherst, all the teams that beat Williams should be ahead of Trinity, etc. And since Lake Forest beat Bowdoin who beat middliebury and Williams who beat Trinity...were back to Lake Forest being above Midd and Trin Trin

And the NCAA doesn't even care about that game, until way down the list of criteria.

 

[LadyFalconsFan]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

i love how easy it is for easterners to throw west teams under the bus. actually, how easy it is for them to throw any team under the bus. especially if they lose to a west team

so i think next year, i'm just gonna create a thread where east belittles west and west admits they're not number one, just not the crap that east says they are. i will call it "The East/West Argument" so the name itself doesn't get slaughtered

 

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

i love how easy it is for easterners to throw west teams under the bus. actually, how easy it is for them to throw any team under the bus. especially if they lose to a west team

I don't remember if you were around last year when Amherst went west. Before that they were all stars, the best the east had seen...they go out and lose two.

and it turned to " clearly they aren't as good as we all thought they were" and then what did they do?

 

[pucko]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Fine. With some of the logic tossed around -- All teams that beat Colby should be above Amherst. MVille lost to Holy Cross who lost to S. Maine. MVhill tied NEC who lost to UMass Boston.....The bottom line is you can go on and on all day about who lost to who and who beat who. The Eastern teams don't make the trek out West-- WHY? Because look at Amherst and what happened when they did. So instead, they stay out East in their safe bubble and rant about how the West is not that good -- WITHOUT COMING OUT HERE TO PROVE IT. Is Umass Boston a good team? Maybe, maybe not. But LF took the trip out there, first game after break, after not playing for a month, and played their back-up goalie. And did they get outshot by Bowdoin? Sure. But they still won. LF outshot UMass Boston badly, too, and UMass Boston won.....Make up your mind if it's shots that count or who actually wins the game.
There are some great Eastern teams and some great Western teams. Leave it at that instead of crapping on teams that 99% of you have never seen play.

 

[LadyFalconsFan]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Fine. With some of the logic tossed around -- All teams that beat Colby should be above Amherst. MVille lost to Holy Cross who lost to S. Maine. MVhill tied NEC who lost to UMass Boston.....The bottom line is you can go on and on all day about who lost to who and who beat who. The Eastern teams don't make the trek out West-- WHY? Because look at Amherst and what happened when they did. So instead, they stay out East in their safe bubble and rant about how the West is not that good -- WITHOUT COMING OUT HERE TO PROVE IT. Is Umass Boston a good team? Maybe, maybe not. But LF took the trip out there, first game after break, after not playing for a month, and played their back-up goalie. And did they get outshot by Bowdoin? Sure. But they still won. LF outshot UMass Boston badly, too, and UMass Boston won.....Make up your mind if it's shots that count or who actually wins the game.
There are some great Eastern teams and some great Western teams. Leave it at that instead of crapping on teams that 99% of you have never seen play.

this was beautiful!

 

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Fine. With some of the logic tossed around -- All teams that beat Colby should be above Amherst. MVille lost to Holy Cross who lost to S. Maine. MVhill tied NEC who lost to UMass Boston.....The bottom line is you can go on and on all day about who lost to who and who beat who. The Eastern teams don't make the trek out West-- WHY? Because look at Amherst and what happened when they did. So instead, they stay out East in their safe bubble and rant about how the West is not that good -- WITHOUT COMING OUT HERE TO PROVE IT. Is Umass Boston a good team? Maybe, maybe not. But LF took the trip out there, first game after break, after not playing for a month, and played their back-up goalie. And did they get outshot by Bowdoin? Sure. But they still won. LF outshot UMass Boston badly, too, and UMass Boston won.....Make up your mind if it's shots that count or who actually wins the game.
There are some great Eastern teams and some great Western teams. Leave it at that instead of crapping on teams that 99% of you have never seen play.

And if they played times would UMB win all 5 highly unlikely.

 

[Plugger]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Fine. With some of the logic tossed around -- All teams that beat Colby should be above Amherst. MVille lost to Holy Cross who lost to S. Maine. MVhill tied NEC who lost to UMass Boston.....The bottom line is you can go on and on all day about who lost to who and who beat who. The Eastern teams don't make the trek out West-- WHY? Because look at Amherst and what happened when they did. So instead, they stay out East in their safe bubble and rant about how the West is not that good -- WITHOUT COMING OUT HERE TO PROVE IT. Is Umass Boston a good team? Maybe, maybe not. But LF took the trip out there, first game after break, after not playing for a month, and played their back-up goalie. And did they get outshot by Bowdoin? Sure. But they still won. LF outshot UMass Boston badly, too, and UMass Boston won.....Make up your mind if it's shots that count or who actually wins the game.
There are some great Eastern teams and some great Western teams. Leave it at that instead of crapping on teams that 99% of you have never seen play.

Right on!!!! Statistics can be manipulated whatever way you want, and then on top of that you can stamp whatever excuse you want (ie tired legs after traveling a long trip on xmas break) on these statistics. I completely agree that seeing the teams, (more in person than on line), will be the best way you compare these teams. Statistics are for losers, this will ultimately be decided on the ice.

 

[valiantfan08]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

A statistic that can't be denied is the West pathetic record vs the East. Outside of Bowdoin (good team) your wins are against Buffalo St and Castleton St. Two of the worse teams out East.

Thats a stat that I would call baloney too...If I were on the wrong side of it.

 

[westeast]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

A statistic that can't be denied is the West pathetic record vs the East. Outside of Bowdoin (good team) your wins are against Buffalo St and Castleton St. Two of the worse teams out East.

Thats a stat that I would call baloney too...If I were on the wrong side of it.

Whats the record against the top 10 west teams?

 

[spike]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

Hey its easy to arrive at a conclusion and then twist statistics to support the conclusion. Western power loses to St. Olaf, well no big deal, parity is exciting. Eastern power loses to Hamilton, drop them from the polls.

I don't rank teams based on individual games, i ask myself, "if team A and team B played 5 times with travel removed as an obsticle, what would happen?"

I believe that if Platty, Amherst and Elmira all played LF, Gustavus and RF under those conditions, the three eastern teams would win 75-80% of those games. So what you are then left with is the question about teams like Mville, RIT, Midd and Trinity, who I think would also win more than 50% of those 5-game matchups against the western powers.

This is strictly my opinion, and admittedly most of my viewing of western games is online. I did see LF play UMB, and they clearly dominated that game. However, they did not dominate any more so than the way Middlebury or Mahattanville did when they played UMB. We also have a number of Adrian losses to also measure the regions.

But whether you agree or disagree with my opinion, I believe my opinion is arrived at in good faith, not because I want to bash the West, and I think LadyFalconsFan is getting a bit carried away with suggesting a special thread for west-bashing easterners.

 

[pucko]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

A statistic that can't be denied is the West pathetic record vs the East. Outside of Bowdoin (good team) your wins are against Buffalo St and Castleton St. Two of the worse teams out East.

Thats a stat that I would call baloney too...If I were on the wrong side of it.

And you're clearly missing my point. Unless the Eastern schools start coming West to really show what they are capable of, everyone's point is moot. You have Eastern schools that barely beat some of the lower teams -- ie, Plattsburgh beat Oswego 3-2. Yes, shots were ridiculous but it was still only 3-2. You don't see me saying that Plattsburgh sucks because they can barely beat one of the lower Eastern teams. This is not Division 1. The level of consistency will never be the same so you will have good teams losing to bad teams and vice versa ALL THE TIME. And unless you are given the opportunity to play those bad teams more than once to reverse the odds and have a better winning percentage, there is zero comparison. When your teams start showing up west of the Detroit/Canada border, then we can talk.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

A statistic that can't be denied is the West pathetic record vs the East. Outside of Bowdoin (good team) your wins are against Buffalo St and Castleton St. Two of the worse teams out East.

Thats a stat that I would call baloney too...If I were on the wrong side of it.

We also beat Chatham something many of your teams have struggled with this year.


So because 4 teams played Eastern teams and did poorly, the whole region is bad? Trust me, I understand that Adrian's dismal performance on the east coast, doesn't show the west well, esp since they have done decent in the west. What isn't known is the stupidity of some of the moves the Adrian coach has made when traveling to the east. It's almost like she doesn't care about what happens in those games, because she knows that what happens in the west matters.


Last season the west was 11-2-1 against the East...and got no credit. St. Olaf split with Trinity and lost to Conn College.

 

[nyi19]

Re: Women's DIII 2009-2010 Fan Opinion Poll

We also beat Chatham something many of your teams have struggled with this year.


So because 4 teams played Eastern teams and did poorly, the whole region is bad? Trust me, I understand that Adrian's dismal performance on the east coast, doesn't show the west well, esp since they have done decent in the west. What isn't known is the stupidity of some of the moves the Adrian coach has made when traveling to the east. It's almost like she doesn't care about what happens in those games, because she knows that what happens in the west matters.


Last season the west was 11-2-1 against the East...and got no credit. St. Olaf split with Trinity and lost to Conn College.

this is me throwing in the towel. there is no formula to make anyone more right than anyone else in any of these arguments. Obviously, the west has formidable teams. Obviously the east has formidable teams. Unfortunately, our passion, our love, is division III hockey — a highly competitive division of quality hockey which doesn't give us the chance to see top teams from EVERYWHERE play across the country without the teams digging into their own pockets. I would love to see the two regions play more. I don't think RIT or trinity have business being as high as they are. I am sure there are west teams that can and should override them. But we can't know and pollsters have to assume. Here's to pitching in $10 a piece per person on this forum to have an 8-team East-West tournament on new years!