Wisconsin vs Total Recall

[Kepler]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

In my opinion, it's the day the Optimism in America died.

I think that was Vietnam. JFK was a madman (or a conspiracy), but it was still aberrant and an attack on us as a nation. Vietnam was our own ruination of our own ideals. It was self-betrayal and the moment when we realized, in the later words of the Sex Pistols, "we're just... another... country."

It was also just another "death of optimism" in America. The post-WW1 generation was also lost. It seems to happen about every fifty years. The "Betrayal of the Revolution" in the early 1800's. The Civil War. WW1. Vietnam. Dubya. The mileposts of American blundering and weakness.

On the other hand, it means we're now entering into a 25-year upswing.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You really think Bush was the low point?

I'm not sure we're there yet. 50% of the nation still thinks he was great and 50% thinks he was the great Satan. I suppose the same could be said for his successor. I just don't see it as the "low point" of the last generation. Perhaps the wars will be the low point when we look back in 30 years, but I just don't see things improving. Things are getting worse. You have a divide that continues to grow deeper and wider every day. You have two of the most radical portions of the political divide being formed and growing more popular every day (the worst we've seen since Vietnam). I'm not sure we've even hit an inflection point. Things are getting worse and I see no signs the worsening is getting any slower (if that makes sense).

No, I don't think we're in an upswing at all.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You really think Bush was the low point?

I'm not sure we're there yet. 50% of the nation still thinks he was great and 50% thinks he was the great Satan. I suppose the same could be said for his successor..

Source pls.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Source pls.

Source for what? It's an anecdotal reference. Perhaps the "great Satan" reference should have provided some clue to that...

But then again, I'm not sure what you're questioning. That 50% thought Bush was great, 50% thought he was terrible, or the same about Obama. I suppose you could take a look at this graphic:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_bush_first_term_job_approval.html

 

[Kepler]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You really think Bush was the low point?

Yep. Combination of things from the reaction to 9/11 to the recession. Let's say 2004-08, rather than Bush, to make it non-partisan. That was one of America's all-time lowpoints.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Yep. Combination of things from the reaction to 9/11 to the recession. Let's say 2004-08, rather than Bush, to make it non-partisan. That was one of America's all-time lowpoints.

2008 was the biggest crisis and investor terror any of us will probably see, where entire sectors were at risk of being wiped out and American net wealth was cut in half. IMO a couple point rise today in unemployment doesn't invalidate corporate America getting back to business as usual. Going forward debt, inequity and unemployment things could get worse. In the long run, we may be in a long slow decline. But I can't imagine a violent spiral of the type where the feds feel a need to bail out entire industries again.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Source for what? It's an anecdotal reference. Perhaps the "great Satan" reference should have provided some clue to that...

But then again, I'm not sure what you're questioning. That 50% thought Bush was great, 50% thought he was terrible, or the same about Obama. I suppose you could take a look at this graphic:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_bush_first_term_job_approval.html

What an odd collection of figures.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/archive/?poll_id=19

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Yep. Combination of things from the reaction to 9/11 to the recession. Let's say 2004-08, rather than Bush, to make it non-partisan. That was one of America's all-time lowpoints.

I think that's probably a more appropriate classification. I think that it was America as a whole that made that period terrible. It wasn't just Bush. Which is not to say that I thought Bush was a great president. He wasn't.

But I really do hope you're right that we're on an upswing.

(As an aside, I'm reading through the Wikipedia pages for events that happened between 2004 and 2008 in the US. It's terribly depressing. So maybe you're right.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_in_the_United_States

I forgot just how bad things were during these years...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

What an odd collection of figures.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/archive/?poll_id=19

*sigh*

If you look carefully, and you might have to squint, you'll see a forest in this picture. You might need to look past the trees though...

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

*sigh*

If you look carefully, and you might have to squint, you'll see a forest in this picture. You might need to look past the trees though...

Oh I missed that you only wanted to focus on the "first" term. Where Bush's disapproval rating had climbed to within ~.8, talk about squandering good will, he was close to 90% approval briefly. I'm sure Obama's has had such a wild swing.... oh wait, it hasn't?

50% of the nation doesn't approve of him? GASP! That was just the end of his first term?!!!!

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Let me know when you stop focusing on the minutia of the trees and see the forest.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Let me know when you stop focusing on the minutia of the trees and see the forest.

Yawn.

50% of the nation still thinks he was great and 50% thinks he was the great Satan.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong. Only at the end of his first term did he have close to those kind of numbers before he slid further and further down the disapproval hole.

Let me know when you quit trying to apply his first term till the end of time.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I give up. You just can't get past the numbers to understand the point. But whatever. I was trying to discuss a completely different point than what you are trying to argue. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside:

Bush is the great Satan, Obama is bestest of all presidents ever

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

But I can't imagine a violent spiral of the type where the feds feel a need to bail out entire industries again.

Someone is naive.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I have Pio on ignore, but I'm guessing the Thermidorian Reaction.

What a blowhard phony you are. Give some more of that quote from Voltaire (or whoever actually said it) again.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Someone is naive.

Congrats on your opinion

 

[geezer]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I have Pio on ignore, but I'm guessing the Thermidorian Reaction.

What a blowhard phony you are. Give some more of that quote from Voltaire (or whoever actually said it) again.

You can't just ignore this stuff. It takes all the fun out of it.

It's fascinating to me how when the weather gets hot, people's irritation crawls steadily upward like Albert Gore Junior's suspender-tensioned undershorts. Foxton is about due to go (even more) completely off his rocker by the end of today...

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Congrats on your opinion

Congrats on your confidence that incompetent / clueless people in government can somehow prevent another disaster from occurring when they showed no such ability to do so in the past.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I give up. You just can't get past the numbers to understand the point. But whatever. I was trying to discuss a completely different point than what you are trying to argue. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside:

Bush is the great Satan, Obama is bestest of all presidents ever

Just keep repeating that and nobody's going to give you trouble.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Bush is the great Satan, Obama is bestest of all presidents ever

To be fair, Cheney was the Great Satan and Bush was just his dupe.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama as you are.