Wisconsin vs Total Recall

[Bob Gray]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

To be fair, Cheney was the Great Satan and Bush was just his dupe.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama as you are.

Yah. Obama himself said that he might not be the best, just the 4th best, with Lincoln, FDR, and Johnson possibly ahead of him.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Yah. Obama himself said that he might not be the best, just the 4th best, with Lincoln, FDR, and Johnson possibly ahead of him.

Johnson? how is Johnson top 3?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I give up. You just can't get past the numbers to understand the point. But whatever. I was trying to discuss a completely different point than what you are trying to argue. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside:

Bush is the great Satan, Obama is bestest of all presidents ever

This is what happens when you try to argue with an angry, hormone altered, irrational, manwoman.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You can't just ignore this stuff. It takes all the fun out of it.

It's fascinating to me how when the weather gets hot, people's irritation crawls steadily upward like Albert Gore Junior's suspender-tensioned undershorts. Foxton is about due to go (even more) completely off his rocker by the end of today...

You have a very liberal use of the word "his".

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

To be fair, Cheney was the Great Satan and Bush was just his dupe.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama as you are.

Ok, Cheney is the Great Satan, Bush is Beelzebub, and Obama is lost in purgatory.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

But I can't imagine a violent spiral of the type where the feds feel a need to bail out entire industries again.

The health insurance industry will definitely need a bailout if not a complete federal takeover. there's no way anyone could write a law as intricate and as detailed as PPACA and have it come out perfect, a certain amount of tweaking is inevitable (see Murphy's law). However, the stakes are quite high, and while Congress dithers, time passes, value erodes.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

The health insurance industry will definitely need a bailout if not a complete federal takeover.

I'm sure they'll campaign vigorously for a bailout, in any case.

Health care under a for profit system will always be overpriced because the customers are hostages who can't say no. The trick will be to strike a balance between a system lucrative enough to foster innovation and affordable enough that it doesn't become like other necessary goods (food, shelter) where half the population winds up with total crap because they don't have anything to trade on the market.

It can't be a pure free enterprise system. It probably shouldn't be a pure government system. But shades of gray don't fit on bumper stickers.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Just leave it a for massive profit business and be done with it. And like Rick Perry and Mitch McConnell seem to be saying, the hell with insuring everyone. Just let them die and let God sort it out.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Health care under a for profit system will always be overpriced because the customers are hostages who can't say no. The trick will be to strike a balance between a system lucrative enough to foster innovation and affordable enough that it doesn't become like other necessary goods (food, shelter) where half the population winds up with total crap because they don't have anything to trade on the market.

It can't be a pure free enterprise system. It probably shouldn't be a pure government system. But shades of gray don't fit on bumper stickers.

A pure government system would totally strangle innovation. Who ever would want to become a doctor in that system? yes, I know plenty of people would, i'm asking you based on your experience with the DMV if you want the same experience at your doctor's office too? except you wouldn't see a doctor, you'd see a nurse practitioner instead.



You seem to be afflicted with a delusion that government is benign. It is neither benign nor malignant, it is merely one of many institutions run by fallible human beings. However, given that government lacks standards of accountability while private business (when they are not begging for government handouts!) has some accountability, I reluctantly pick one that is somewhat accountable over that which is totally unaccountable most, although not all, the time.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Just leave it a for massive profit business and be done with it. And like Rick Perry and Mitch McConnell seem to be saying, the hell with insuring everyone. Just let them die and let God sort it out.

Extremism in the support of sarcasm is no vice? is that your new motto?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Just leave it a for massive profit business and be done with it. And like Rick Perry and Mitch McConnell seem to be saying, the hell with insuring everyone. Just let them die and let God sort it out.

Sounds great to me. Healthcare is a privilege.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Extremism in the support of sarcasm is no vice? is that your new motto?

That's his whiny motto. It comes and goes - mostly comes and sets up a tent for long occupations.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Johnson? how is Johnson top 3?

Johnson expanded government greatly with The Great Society and War on Poverty stuff.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Saw this quote from Kepler and the irony was just so delicious "the customers are hostages who can't say no." Those who oppose such a system just lost at the Supreme Court. Guess it's ok to make customers hostages who can't say no only if it's a free market system, but it's fine and good if it's a government mandated system.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Sounds great to me. Healthcare is a privilege.

It is. No doubt about it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You seem to be afflicted with a delusion that government is benign. It is neither benign nor malignant, it is merely one of many institutions run by fallible human beings. However, given that government lacks standards of accountability while private business (when they are not begging for government handouts!) has some accountability, I reluctantly pick one that is somewhat accountable over that which is totally unaccountable most, although not all, the time.

It's hilarious that you think corporations are more accountable than government. You don't have a say in how the banks run their business and your economic security was massively affected by their actions circa 2008. Meanwhile you get to vote and participate in your government as much or as little as you want to.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It's hilarious that you think corporations are more accountable than government. You don't have a say in how the banks run their business and your economic security was massively affected by their actions circa 2008. Meanwhile you get to vote and participate in your government as much or as little as you want to.

Typical Democrat saying you can vote as much as you want. You must have grown up in Chicago?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

. Meanwhile you get to vote and participate in your government as much or as little as you want to.

You have a strange sense of accountability, I guess.....the federal government employs hundreds of thousands of people, and maybe 500 of them are elected? so that's 0.2% at most who are accountable, otherwise the rest of them go about their day, with no measures at all in place as to how good a job they are doing (with the major exception being the military; they face the ultimate level of accountability for success or failure!).

The teachers' unions say we need more money, yet if you look at government expenditure per teacher vs. student performance, empirically the more we spend, the worse students do, and yet no teacher is ever fired for not doing a good job. where is this vaunted "accountability" of which you speak?

In many businesses, you have clear metrics that let you know if the work you are doing improves the operation of the business. If I am in customer service and all the people who call me cancel service, my supervisor will know about it and I'm fired. If I am in a government agency I can be as rude as I feel like to the public, and at worst I may be "reassigned."

How can a person tell if they receive fair value in exchange for a dollar? in many businesses, it's real straightforward: If I like the product or service, I buy more and I recommend it to friends; if I dislike it, I buy less and warn my friends away. You don't have those options with government employees.

Yeah, really "hilarious" how little you understand about very basic things. Nice cocoon you have there, he?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It's hilarious that you think corporations are more accountable than government. You don't have a say in how the banks run their business and your economic security was massively affected by their actions circa 2008. Meanwhile you get to vote and participate in your government as much or as little as you want to.

When I am unimpressed by a business's performance, product, or treatment of its clients, I can take my business elsewhere or avoid a company based upon reputation. The reputation of the brand name is important. When the federal government does something that displeases me - say the Army Corps of Engineers claiming domain of a small pond as a navigable waterway - I can't simply up and find another government without changing citizenship, a la Denise Rich and Facebook's co-founder. One is simple to avoid, the other requires extreme measures.

And the motto is "one person, one vote," not "Remember Daly!"

 

[geezer]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It's hilarious that you think corporations are more accountable than government.

This should be a given for anyone, no matter what you fear from the evilscary Koch brothers. You have all the choice in which corporations to send your money to. Of the few that you don't have much choice such as utility providers, public school teachers, and road builders, take one guess what they all have in common?
Corporations are far, far, more accountable to the people they serve than the government is. It's a no-brainer.