Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Seems that at a program that has had crashing attendance and very little to get excited about for the last year, that the coach going to an extra presser and essentially saying "we did good, we're not bad, and we're going to be better. Come on out and watch us." is just a logical step that anyone in Eaves position would be compelled to take. It's perhaps as much an acknowledgement of the state of things as anything. If they were rolling high, I doubt anyone would bother. I'd certainly do what I could to try and create any sort of positive buzz given the circumstances.

Eaves has obviously poisoned a good sized contingent within the fanbase. Many to the extent that no matter how much he might win, (or even anyone might win) it won't matter enough. And judging by social media, article comments, etc. over the last 10 months, at least part of that contingent seems to be working very hard to poison the rest of the fans as much as possible. Advocates of boycotting Badger games are certainly getting their way thus far. And they're following it up by complaining further about the awful attendance, which is either very clever, or if sincere, very ironic.

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Advocates of boycotting Badger games are certainly getting their way thus far. And they're following it up by complaining further about the awful attendance, which is either very clever, or if sincere, very ironic.

If anyone is actively leading a boycott of the games I would love to see something about their plans. Right now it feels like a random mass of people who have decided to not go to games for whatever their reason may be.

If the people taking individual (in)action to not go to the games think "boy, my one missing ticket will show them, and maybe I'll send a grumpy e-mail to someone saying why I wasn't there" will bring about any change I think they are misguided and their efforts probably count for very little.
On the other hand, if you have 100, or 500, or 1,000, or 5,000 people come together with a unified voice and say "We are not attending the game tonight (this weekend, this year, this amount of time), for these reasons. This is what specifically can be done to get us to change our course" then there would be something to see/hear/react to.

There are people on this board who are passionate. And their passion can be towards the extreme end of the spectrum (to either end). If someone cares enough about the team and the state of the program to put the time into organizing such a movement I think it might get some serious attention from the media and the administration.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

At this point, I think that it is very likely that Eaves has lost the support of the fanbase. The problem is that us fans don't see better days ahead, we don't have hope that next year will get better, every setback is a "here we go again" and every positive is overshadowed by the negatives.

As long as fans believe that success is fleeting and temporary, general interest and attendance will not increase as long as Eaves remains coach.

The question becomes "has Eaves poisoned the fanbase to the point that no new coach will be able to re-energize the fans and re-fill the Kohl Center to ~12k per night?" Your guess is as good as mine.

Winning will help attendance some and that may happen as soon as next season in the Eaves boom/bust cycle. For the 4th time in his tenure, Eaves has a bubble of a massively imbalanced class working it's way through the program and by next fall they will be a relatively experienced team. If they manage to hang on to Kunin for a second season and actually bring in Zimmer/Fredrick while having no one else bolt elsewhere, they'll actually resemble an upper level D1 roster.

The right coach most certainly can recapture the magic of a full Kohl....there is just to many postives....fun city, very good academics (for those into that sort of thing in college), exceptional facilities (Labahn has really brought the Badgers back into the elite in facilities), and a rich tradition of success (you are not trying to convince kids to come to some outpost that has never had success when you can show a deep roster of NHL players as examples of how playing at Wisconsin can be a step toward the end goal of most high end recruits).
I do agree that the success being "fleeting and temporary" will limit the recovery in attendance even if the next season or two see an improved product on the ice as any of us that have been around know the bottom falls out when the big class of sophs/juniors graduate and then any underclassmen worth their salt will bolt when they look around and have no one to play with where they can have success as a team or individually for a couple of seasons.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

If anyone is actively leading a boycott of the games I would love to see something about their plans. Right now it feels like a random mass of people who have decided to not go to games for whatever their reason may be.

If the people taking individual (in)action to not go to the games think "boy, my one missing ticket will show them, and maybe I'll send a grumpy e-mail to someone saying why I wasn't there" will bring about any change I think they are misguided and their efforts probably count for very little.
On the other hand, if you have 100, or 500, or 1,000, or 5,000 people come together with a unified voice and say "We are not attending the game tonight (this weekend, this year, this amount of time), for these reasons. This is what specifically can be done to get us to change our course" then there would be something to see/hear/react to.

There are people on this board who are passionate. And their passion can be towards the extreme end of the spectrum (to either end). If someone cares enough about the team and the state of the program to put the time into organizing such a movement I think it might get some serious attention from the media and the administration.

I don't know that there is any organized effort to boycott....but I did not renew my 4 season tickets in part because of talking with other season ticketholders here and that I know in real life, in part to no longer financially support a horribly mismanaged product that does not meet my threshold of entertainment value (bad hockey+morgue-like atmosphere aren't going to get my discretionary income when I have many other options just as close....AHL, NHL, JR), and deep down in part that my (and many others decision not to come to games) not coming does get noticed and does implement change. I've been hooked on Badger hockey since the late 70's and still will follow the team (pretty good chance I'll even attend a game or two....not like it is hard to get tickets or anything), but I will not do it at the level (financially and emotionally) as I have in the past.

The current state of the program reminds me of the end of the Sauer era where indifferent recruiting (which confuses me why anyone would advocate for Mark Johnson as candidate for the job when it opens as he was the lead recruiter) where a large portion of the fan base was disenchanted and wanted change...only difference here is Barry and Co were to dumb to recognize the depth of the anger and pull the trigger.

We are going to go in the span of a couple years from averaging 11-12K to be lucky to average 6K even with give away tickets. It's way more then one person saying they won't go any more. While the management of the program is clueless in many ways, they really can not be THAT stupid that they do not at this point comprehend the depths of the program. Maybe they didn't understand just how angry the fan base is and how badly season tickets and attendance were going to dip....but make no mistake they know now. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced last Spring they had a feel for the true level of disenchantment and felt they could stick with Eaves and he would turn the ship this season or next and things would get back to norm.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

If anyone is actively leading a boycott of the games I would love to see something about their plans. Right now it feels like a random mass of people who have decided to not go to games for whatever their reason may be.

If the people taking individual (in)action to not go to the games think "boy, my one missing ticket will show them, and maybe I'll send a grumpy e-mail to someone saying why I wasn't there" will bring about any change I think they are misguided and their efforts probably count for very little.
On the other hand, if you have 100, or 500, or 1,000, or 5,000 people come together with a unified voice and say "We are not attending the game tonight (this weekend, this year, this amount of time), for these reasons. This is what specifically can be done to get us to change our course" then there would be something to see/hear/react to.

There are people on this board who are passionate. And their passion can be towards the extreme end of the spectrum (to either end). If someone cares enough about the team and the state of the program to put the time into organizing such a movement I think it might get some serious attention from the media and the administration.

I wasn't suggesting there's some sort of insidious organization with torches having midnight meetings at the Coliseum and plotting together to bring about the demise of Badger Hockey. (Unless ex-pat gophers are. Someone should maybe check on that tonight.) But as this is the age of the internet, it's really not necessary. There certainly are 100, 500, or 1000 and more ticket holders and 'fans' who have indeed spoken with their twitters and facebooks, negative postings on every Badger article, etc. as well as with their pocketbooks. And certainly many have directly replied to the admin with their very similar emails and responses to surveys. Surely these folks don't need to form a formal club and present a unified paper to the school in order to be heard at this point. I think they probably are being heard. As for them being responsible to supply "what specifically can be done to change our course" well, I'm sure they have offered input, but they don't have the responsibility of solving the problems. The AD does.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I wasn't suggesting there's some sort of insidious organization with torches having midnight meetings at the Coliseum and plotting together to bring about the demise of Badger Hockey. (Unless ex-pat gophers are. Someone should maybe check on that tonight.) But as this is the age of the internet, it's really not necessary. There certainly are 100, 500, or 1000 and more ticket holders and 'fans' who have indeed spoken with their twitters and facebooks, negative postings on every Badger article, etc. as well as with their pocketbooks. And certainly many have directly replied to the admin with their very similar emails and responses to surveys. Surely these folks don't need to form a formal club and present a unified paper to the school in order to be heard at this point. I think they probably are being heard. As for them being responsible to supply "what specifically can be done to change our course" well, I'm sure they have offered input, but they don't have the responsibility of solving the problems. The AD does.

Exactly....I should have let you respond as yours is far more concise and to the point.

The AD is stupid....but NOT that stupid that they need a fire Eaves petition signed by a 1000 ex-season ticketholders.

 

[Innova]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

We should go on a hunger strike and have the football team threaten to not play.

 

[Red_Rob]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I wasn't suggesting there's some sort of insidious organization with torches having midnight meetings at the Coliseum and plotting together to bring about the demise of Badger Hockey. (Unless ex-pat gophers are. Someone should maybe check on that tonight.) But as this is the age of the internet, it's really not necessary. There certainly are 100, 500, or 1000 and more ticket holders and 'fans' who have indeed spoken with their twitters and facebooks, negative postings on every Badger article, etc. as well as with their pocketbooks. And certainly many have directly replied to the admin with their very similar emails and responses to surveys. Surely these folks don't need to form a formal club and present a unified paper to the school in order to be heard at this point. I think they probably are being heard. As for them being responsible to supply "what specifically can be done to change our course" well, I'm sure they have offered input, but they don't have the responsibility of solving the problems. The AD does.

I know it's annoying the very few positive fans (though did they come out in Droves once we actually won) on facebook. I am negative on most things and point out that i want eaves gone and why. I always attempt to show my displeasure is with Eaves and not with the assistant coaches and not with the players on the ice.

If this administration has their heads in the sand that they don't notice all the empty seats, and the loss of ticket holders more and more by the year. Then I don't know what sort of protest that we'd have to have to get them to notice

 

[GBBadger14]

We should go on a hunger strike and have the football team threaten to not play.

You'd think an attendance strike would be good enough...

 

[Stauber1]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

You'd think an attendance strike would be good enough...

Ya'll just need to organize the students to start a "Fire Eaves" chant any time the team is getting worked over at home....that **** gets embarrassing quick, and the AD WILL take notice....

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

So... Kunin still a Badger? Until semester's end?

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

So... Kunin still a Badger? Until semester's end?

As I said before, my best pure speculation guess is that Sarnia, which was making some moves, tried to deal Kunin to London. London would like him, but probably not at any price. Whatever the deal, it sure didn't seem to shake up the team at all. Friday was no flukey win, the boys pounded sue. I believe the OHL can trade until January. Hard to say what happens yet. Kunin does seem to have a pretty level head.

Leaving school early has worked out for a few guys but there are oodles more examples of guys where it hasn't. Completely unrelated, but Taki Pantiris left Brown mid season and an Ivy education behind to go to Sarnia a few years back. Didn't really make it in the OHL and aged out of Juniors playing in the BCHL and is done. Probably had fun, but giving up a Brown diploma is a pretty big deal. Totally different as Kunin would be a OHL star before long, (barring a major injury, then where are you?) but it's still the kind of thing that cranks me about the CHL's dealings in general.

Jack Dougherty has 2g 3a in 13gp so far for Portland. To me, the Major Juniors play to his strengths, which are offensive with his bomb of a shot. What he needs most, IMO, is some work on his skating and a lot on his defense, which are the very things Eaves has the best record in teaching and the CHL isn't particularly known for. Is it better to go with your strengths or develop your weaknesses? (I think the latter.) Be interesting to see how his future trajectory compares to a guy like McCabe.

 

[Almington]

Ya'll just need to organize the students to start a "Fire Eaves" chant any time the team is getting worked over at home....that **** gets embarrassing quick, and the AD WILL take notice....

That's not public enough. You want the AD to take notice, someone needs to takeout full page newspaper adds calling for Eaves to resign or be fired. Something like that is unusual enough to get picked up by the national media. That is that it would take to get Barry's attention.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I know it's annoying the very few positive fans (though did they come out in Droves once we actually won) on facebook. I am negative on most things and point out that i want eaves gone and why. I always attempt to show my displeasure is with Eaves and not with the assistant coaches and not with the players on the ice.

If this administration has their heads in the sand that they don't notice all the empty seats, and the loss of ticket holders more and more by the year. Then I don't know what sort of protest that we'd have to have to get them to notice

Generally, while obviously a lot of folks have the same thoughts, it's seems pretty hard to separate displeasure with Eaves from that with the team in most negative comments I see. And when displeasure with Eaves spills over into hoping the team loses, there is no separation, whatever the intentions. And while I understand the motivations behind it, I personally think it's the wrong way of going about it.

The best thing that can happen for Badger hockey is that these guys win games. Win another 15 would be pretty good, and maybe get in position to sneak through the B1G tournament. (The way it looks at the moment is that it's anybody's to win anyway.) A few more people may show up next week at the KC after last weekend. Even split the Pio's and maybe a few folks see these guys are playing pretty good and show up to watch Michigan. Heck, anyone that follows hockey would have to at least get curious, if they're not already. It's a step to getting some atmosphere going. Retain and attract more players, win more, and Eaves goes out in a blaze of glory with another title. No matter how much you hate Eaves, that would be a great outcome, considering where we are.

Alternatively, win less then say, ten on the whole season, continue to have an empty Kohl and more bashing of the program... well, I'm of the opinion that the program can get past a point of no return. I believe Almington has referenced that several times and I agree. Lose a lot, fire Eaves next summer, lose more players, and I don't care who you hire to rebuild, I don't see the KC going from 3000 to 13000 after two (or more) years of losing and disinterest. Regardless of the coach, the longer UW goes without winning the more we risk becoming Maine. A once great program that spiraled into a hole that it can't seem to get itself out of.

I'd much prefer that the Badgers got a little positive support when deserved during the season and if it all goes south, we all do start meeting up at midnight (I'll even bring the torches) at the Coli in April to bring the thing down. Kamigo is not without a point in that organization does have it's merits.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

It was pretty obvious at Eaves' unplanned weekly press conference that he was selling the team to the fans. I don't know how many read the transcript or watch it, but he was talking up the fact that the lads beat the #1 team in the country and there wasn't more hoopla about the win like there would have been with FB or BB. I think the lack of a reaction (in Eaves' eyes) speaks to the indifference that has been bred in the fanbase (and the fact it was not on cable tv to a certain minor extent). Only the hardcore folks were jacked about it.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

This was turned into a nice promo piece.

(Although I'm sure I can hear some of you throwing up a little bit in the background.)

Does contain one metaphor everyone can get behind: Sioux fans are "like RATS hanging off the ship."

Also forgot to mention Kudos to Matt Jurusic as he earns another B1G star of the week. This time #2 for his strong performance against the wagon jockeys.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Generally, while obviously a lot of folks have the same thoughts, it's seems pretty hard to separate displeasure with Eaves from that with the team in most negative comments I see. And when displeasure with Eaves spills over into hoping the team loses, there is no separation, whatever the intentions. And while I understand the motivations behind it, I personally think it's the wrong way of going about it.

The best thing that can happen for Badger hockey is that these guys win games. Win another 15 would be pretty good, and maybe get in position to sneak through the B1G tournament. (The way it looks at the moment is that it's anybody's to win anyway.) A few more people may show up next week at the KC after last weekend. Even split the Pio's and maybe a few folks see these guys are playing pretty good and show up to watch Michigan. Heck, anyone that follows hockey would have to at least get curious, if they're not already. It's a step to getting some atmosphere going. Retain and attract more players, win more, and Eaves goes out in a blaze of glory with another title. No matter how much you hate Eaves, that would be a great outcome, considering where we are.

Alternatively, win less then say, ten on the whole season, continue to have an empty Kohl and more bashing of the program... well, I'm of the opinion that the program can get past a point of no return. I believe Almington has referenced that several times and I agree. Lose a lot, fire Eaves next summer, lose more players, and I don't care who you hire to rebuild, I don't see the KC going from 3000 to 13000 after two (or more) years of losing and disinterest. Regardless of the coach, the longer UW goes without winning the more we risk becoming Maine. A once great program that spiraled into a hole that it can't seem to get itself out of.

I'd much prefer that the Badgers got a little positive support when deserved during the season and if it all goes south, we all do start meeting up at midnight (I'll even bring the torches) at the Coli in April to bring the thing down. Kamigo is not without a point in that organization does have it's merits.

Do you know when Maine last had a season they won 4 or fewer games in a year? NEVER Do you know the last time they had back to back seasons w/o double digit wins (I suspect UW will have a hard time not accomplishing that dubious distinction) It's been 35ish years. Wisconsin has so many advantages over Maine as far as history, school, city, facilities that it is not even a fair comparison.

At this point, I think we are close to the point of no return and even if Eaves rallies the boys into winning a dozen games which I would think is in the neighborhood of anyone reasonable's high watermark. If you think winning 12 or 15 games will really remove all the questions surrounding how long will Eaves actually be here, I think you are naïve cause every competing recruiter both college and CHL will be whispering that loudly in any decent kids ears both on our roster and elsewhere.

 

[Almington]

Generally, while obviously a lot of folks have the same thoughts, it's seems pretty hard to separate displeasure with Eaves from that with the team in most negative comments I see. And when displeasure with Eaves spills over into hoping the team loses, there is no separation, whatever the intentions. And while I understand the motivations behind it, I personally think it's the wrong way of going about it.

The best thing that can happen for Badger hockey is that these guys win games. Win another 15 would be pretty good, and maybe get in position to sneak through the B1G tournament. (The way it looks at the moment is that it's anybody's to win anyway.) A few more people may show up next week at the KC after last weekend. Even split the Pio's and maybe a few folks see these guys are playing pretty good and show up to watch Michigan. Heck, anyone that follows hockey would have to at least get curious, if they're not already. It's a step to getting some atmosphere going. Retain and attract more players, win more, and Eaves goes out in a blaze of glory with another title. No matter how much you hate Eaves, that would be a great outcome, considering where we are.

Alternatively, win less then say, ten on the whole season, continue to have an empty Kohl and more bashing of the program... well, I'm of the opinion that the program can get past a point of no return. I believe Almington has referenced that several times and I agree. Lose a lot, fire Eaves next summer, lose more players, and I don't care who you hire to rebuild, I don't see the KC going from 3000 to 13000 after two (or more) years of losing and disinterest. Regardless of the coach, the longer UW goes without winning the more we risk becoming Maine. A once great program that spiraled into a hole that it can't seem to get itself out of.

I'd much prefer that the Badgers got a little positive support when deserved during the season and if it all goes south, we all do start meeting up at midnight (I'll even bring the torches) at the Coli in April to bring the thing down. Kamigo is not without a point in that organization does have it's merits.

The fact is that the head coach IS the program while he is in that position. That's the nature of college athletics. You can't criticize the HC without insulting the players who are here, because they are here because they were recruited here at least by the approval of the HC.

Every Badger fan who complains about the state of the program does so because they care and want to see the program back at the elite level (or at least close to it) on a consistent basis.

I'm very convinced that we have crossed a point of no return with Eaves as the HC in terms of fan support. The extreme up and down nature of the program: #4 seed one season to 4 total wins the following season. Even if the team Has a good season, the belief is that the next season with be a painful rebuilding season because that is how it has been under Eaves.

All the rats comment in the press conference did is remind me of how sad the atmosphere at the Kohl Center has become because that's how it used to be.

 

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Heck, anyone that follows college hockey would have to at least get curious, if they're not already.

Fixed that for you...there's a big difference. I know it's way different being around my fellow students every day versus elsewhere around town, but it's striking how large of a gap in interest there seems to be between hockey in general and Wisconsin Badgers hockey. There are a bunch of people who loosely keep up with things and thought, "hey, that's kind of neat" when they found out the Badgers split with UND last weekend, and a few others for whom not buying season tickets was a matter of team performance. I see boatloads of NHL fans every day, and I doubt many of them follow UW hockey as even modestly dedicated fans (I personally know many walking examples of this). It's a less extreme version of how most soccer fans on campus don't really follow Badgers soccer.

As for the general public away from campus...let's just say that the sports section of the Star Tribune, during the conference tournaments in 2014 (when I was at a friend's house up there for the Big Ten tournament), looked way different than what you see in the Wisconsin State Journal in terms of college hockey coverage.

The context surrounding these games is way different for hockey fans who follow college hockey compared to hockey fans who don't. ESPN isn't telling them, "hey, this Badgers hockey team is getting interesting." But who knows? Maybe there are enough people who say, "hey, that's kind of neat" for the biggest wins that their interest increases a bit.

This was turned into a nice promo piece.

I've been happy to see A) more video content and B) more posts about men's hockey on the main Badgers pages. I know it's not the biggest thing, but the number of eyeballs seeing this stuff (and therefore the number of people being reminded - in the advertising/marketing sense - of that brand) is far from negligible. If only that had happened 2+ years ago, when there were more big wins and raucous crowds to feature. The difference between being at the biggest games and not has been absolutely staggering. (i.e. a mind-bending, insane experience at a game will be followed by "oh, the Badgers swept the Gophers when they were ranked #1? Cool." from sports fans who weren't watching, despite having watched the road football game vs ASU, got caught up in the basketball bandwagon, etc. That was a physically strange experience. Literally.)

All the rats comment in the press conference did is remind me of how sad the atmosphere at the Kohl Center has become because that's how it used to be.

That's what I was thinking as he described playing at UND. From everything I've read, UW's atmosphere used to be consistently a level up on NoDak's. I missed the bulk of it, but I've been to a few games that make that pretty easy to believe.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Do you know when Maine last had a season they won 4 or fewer games in a year? NEVER Do you know the last time they had back to back seasons w/o double digit wins (I suspect UW will have a hard time not accomplishing that dubious distinction) It's been 35ish years. Wisconsin has so many advantages over Maine as far as history, school, city, facilities that it is not even a fair comparison.

At this point, I think we are close to the point of no return and even if Eaves rallies the boys into winning a dozen games which I would think is in the neighborhood of anyone reasonable's high watermark. If you think winning 12 or 15 games will really remove all the questions surrounding how long will Eaves actually be here, I think you are naïve cause every competing recruiter both college and CHL will be whispering that loudly in any decent kids ears both on our roster and elsewhere.

Maine is currently 0-6-3 and in the last 9 years have won 20+ once and been to one tournament. In the preceding 9 years they won 20+ every year, went to 9 tournaments, 6 FF's, and 3 title games, winning one. (one of the best stretches in history) I was simply saying that while I don't really see Wisconsin falling to long term Tech-like desperation no matter what happens, it's easily possible we could endure a decade or more of not really being able to get over the hump, and fan support continuing to dwindle the longer we go without winning. I'd like to see them win now.

I don't think winning 15 removes any questions, but I think winning more then that puts the team in a decent position going forward. More likely to retain and attract top prospects simply because the near term outlook would be pretty positive with possibly only two seniors to replace on the ice for next year. Losing a lot makes the outlook equally bleak. Of course there will be whispering, there always is, but as you say yourself UW has a lot to offer. There are some pretty good players on this roster and on the horizon despite the widely held opinion that Schuchuk and Walsh couldn't land a decent recruit. Presumably then, Strand and Bittner are better and should be able to find some good players somewhere. This coming off-season will be a key opportunity to address some class imbalance, who ever is in charge. There will be an opportunity to replace some weaker roster freshman and sophs with incoming players if they can manage to attract the right kind of players. That would be a huge help going forward.

Regardless, in my opinion if Eaves wins 16+ they retain him. Win <10 and he's gone. With some sort of sliding scale of probability in between.

The fact is that the head coach IS the program while he is in that position. That's the nature of college athletics. You can't criticize the HC without insulting the players who are here, because they are here because they were recruited here at least by the approval of the HC.

I agree and that's better stated. All I was getting at was the internet is flooded with things like "Who in their right mind would come to UW and play for Eaves?" which of course is also calling the players that actually have come to play for Eaves and Wisconsin, idiots. And it seems no one likes to be called that.

I understand it and I'm not mad at anyone who does it. Perhaps I should have just said that I wouldn't go about it that way myself rather than be critical of those who do. I do admit to finding it a bit off-putting because of the wider implications whenever I see it though. And I suppose because social media is a pretty powerful thing, it can be detrimental to the program in general. But perhaps that's the idea. UW is a great school and a great place to be a student-athlete at, regardless. Athletes that play here are certainly open targets for criticism on their performance, their effort level, and even their conduct off the field. I'm not sure they should be criticized for choosing to come and play for you in the first place, though.

Every Badger fan who complains about the state of the program does so because they care and want to see the program back at the elite level (or at least close to it) on a consistent basis.

Oh, I agree 100%. The inverse isn't true though. Fans who are still supporting the Badgers, are buying tickets and aren't bashing about the program at every opportunity care about the program too. It astonishes me that I feel compelled to make that a statement. But I do see those folks get hammered at every turn on the internet.

I should add the caveat that while obviously some of this stuff crops up on this board, I'm largely referring to outside of this board.