Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Honestly though, in the spirit of full disclosure, I would like to know if in any way you are related to or have any association with the Eaves family?

I'm sure that if you go back a few hundred generations there may be some sort of link between our families...

But to answer the question directly; No, I do not have any personal or professional association with Eaves.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I appreciate your confidence in my finely honed skills of analysis and eye for the game. 3-3 is possible, yes. MI scares me the most, maybe more out of the past than what they are today, as UW played so completely pathetically against them last year, the Saturday home game last year was the low point in the season to me. Again, new players, new systems new year will improve the matchup, they have sieve issues. MI St is snoozefest hockey, hopefully UW's new systems will make that match up more entertaining, last year it was paint drying. MI St does not scare me, but they are so defensive. DU will be up and down hockey similar to the sue series and UW has some horses that can run with them. I think in the end 2-4 is realistic, but 3-3 is not completely unrealistic. Dare I say 4-2 is not totally insane? I predict 3-3.

Excellent. I'm marking it down and I don't even care who the w's come against. Pio's are probably as good as UND, maybe better. Sparty did put up 12 goals last weekend against UNH. Hopefully they return to form before they get here. Michigan? Who knows. Kind of Jekyll and Hyde at times.

4-2... Holy smokes... Badgers win 2/3 of their remaining games and they're staring 20 wins right in the eye. Possible bid and in place of missing banners there are Badger fans hanging themselves from the rafters of the KC when MM gets the Coach of the Year nod. Yeah, that seems too much.

These are all going to be tough games and I think we're still a little better suited to small ice right now, so we'll see. The hallmark of youth is inconsistency so the boys really need to shake that off. Hughes has to get back (and Freytag, too) and everyone else has to stay healthy. Besse has been playing both ends lately and if Jurusic can stand up, and the rest of the boys keep going, 3-3 is doable, would be pretty good, and would maybe give them some real confidence to get going after the break.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I can claim that the administration knows what is going on, is bothered by what is going on, and there are several members taking steps to improve the things that they can. I can say this because I personally met with members of the administration this week to voice my concerns and provide my feedback.

I'm sure that if you go back a few hundred generations there may be some sort of link between our families...

But to answer the question directly; No, I do not have any personal or professional association with Eaves.

Ok Jason King, we know you aren't related to Eaves.

If you really do have connections in the Athletic Dept that you talked to "this week," then that certainly explains a lot why you consistently defend Eaves and this administration.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Ok Jason King, we know you aren't related to Eaves.

If you really do have connections in the Athletic Dept that you talked to "this week," then that certainly explains a lot why you consistently defend Eaves and this administration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe KaMigo is on the fan advisory council.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe KaMigo is on the fan advisory council.

I hope not, because if his posts here reflect his input to the athletic board, we're all ****ed. I believe everything said regarding recruits. They are more informed now than ever and do not want to settle in a bad situation only to be miserable.

I know we seem to be going round & round and pardon me for being a bit tardy with this, but there is NO concerted effort to boycott Badger hockey games. There are 7,000 + from the "fan base" including me, who have elected NOT to renew any tickets until something changes. (I don't consider students "fan base" because they should be and always will be there...for now, and that changes annually). As many regulars know, my "Badger money" has become NHL money and I've been VERY entertained by 2 games thus far. Isn't that what the sports dollar is about...entertainment?

I want to go back to Badger games; jokingly yell at refs, goof fans, and have fun. Capiche?

 

[solovsfett]

Say what you will, that's fine. I've never said that there are no problems with the program. Yes, there are problems with the program.
Here, just to make sure THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE PROGRAM!

The issue that I was addressing is that the speculation that comes out on this board can be a bit ridiculous.

If you want to claim that there are NHL/Canadian teams telling their players to stay away from UW, please provide more than "boy, it sure seems that way".

If you want to claim that Eaves the the reason that players have left or have chosen to go to another school, please provide more than "boy, it sure seems that way".

If you want to claim that former players are telling recruits to go elsewhere, please provide more than "I heard that someone heard someone say something".

I get that the internet is an anonymous rumor mill full of "experts", but please provide some context to back up your claims. And yes, I know that much of the background on some of these items came from Chuck/Andy, he was a great inside source for information who is no longer able to continue the conversations that he started, and that sucks for all of us.

If you want to claim that the administration is blind to what is going on and won't make any efforts to correct the problem, please provide more than "boy, it sure seems that way".

I can claim that the administration knows what is going on, is bothered by what is going on, and there are several members taking steps to improve the things that they can. I can say this because I personally met with members of the administration this week to voice my concerns and provide my feedback.

Put me on the fan advisory council please.

How about you identify the problems with the program as they are now and have been growing since 2007?

Not sure if you were around to see it or not; honest question: did you witness Wisconsin hockey circa 1994 and earlier? If not, that's a huge reason for the disconnect between yourself and some of us.

Here's why I ask: if you'd have seen badger hockey at it's best you'd be just as angry, despondent etc regarding the state of the program. And not just the current Eaves induced disaster but the state of the program for the past 2 decades.

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Ok Jason King, we know you aren't related to Eaves.

If you really do have connections in the Athletic Dept that you talked to "this week," then that certainly explains a lot why you consistently defend Eaves and this administration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe KaMigo is on the fan advisory council.

Yes, I was on the council last year. They bring in fresh people every year, so my time with that is over. It was a fun experience and I encourage any remaining season ticket holders to apply when the time comes for next year's group.

No, I am not affiliated with the university or the administration in any way; and I wouldn't say that I have "connections".

I wouldn't say that I always defend Eaves and the administration. I try to provide a thought-out view that is often times contrarian. If I feel that either has done something horribly wrong, I have no problem saying so. One specific example, I HATE RC COLA!!!

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Put me on the fan advisory council please.

The Fan Advisory Board (they tend to change the name depending on who you talk to) is open to anyone who holds season tickets in a sport that offers season tickets.

You can get more information here

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Put me on the fan advisory council please.

How about you identify the problems with the program as they are now and have been growing since 2007?

Not sure if you were around to see it or not; honest question: did you witness Wisconsin hockey circa 1994 and earlier? If not, that's a huge reason for the disconnect between yourself and some of us.

Here's why I ask: if you'd have seen badger hockey at it's best you'd be just as angry, despondent etc regarding the state of the program. And not just the current Eaves induced disaster but the state of the program for the past 2 decades.

We can certainly make this all about me if you would like...

I did not follow hockey (in any form) until I started going to college. I went to a lower-tier WCHA school and attended as many games as I could between 1999-2004.

I moved to Madison in 2007 and took in as many games as I could fit into my schedule. In 2009 I got season tickets for both nights (part of a set of 4 tickets that are under my name).

Nope, I wasn't there for any of the chaos at the Coliseum (outside of that one series a few years ago, and that was pretty fun).
Nope, I wasn't a student here.
Nope, I wasn't following during the Johnson or Sauer eras.
I'm sure that some of you think that makes me less of a fan, or a less qualified fan. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

But I think I've seen some great hockey, and some great crowds. Is what is on the ice right now comparable to what I have seen in the past, nope. Do I think that you need to burn the whole thing down and start from scratch to get back to where it was, probably not.

The problems that I see right now:
Unbalanced classes - is this the chicken or is this the egg. Did Eaves create the unbalanced classes out of poor roster management or was it the result of high-end players leaving earlier than expected...I can't say
Poor attendance - looking at the information that has been published on this, sales have fluctuated up or down every year since 98-99. Can you tie it to performance, maybe. Can you tie it to the economy, maybe. Can you tie it to any number of things, probably.

For those of you that long for Badger Hockey to be what it was 20-30 years ago, I ask you this. Is anything what it was 20+ years ago? The landscape has changed, expecting things today to be what they were 20+ years ago isn't realistic.
But please don't think that I don't want to see the program succeed, I want that just as much as anyone else here. I want to see another championship banner in the rafters. I want to see the Kohl Center packed for every game. I want to see UW having to turn away good recruits because we have too many great recruits.

And I think that can happen with the pieces that we have in place. I know that puts me in the minority, but I am OK with that.

Anything else that I can answer to shed some light for people?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Playing the role of devil's advocate for a moment...do you have any proof of any of this or is it just speculation?

No. But as others have noted, Chuck/Andy had noted similar comments in the past. With the amount of trust I place in his reporting, I'm assuming that I'm at worst guilty of exaggerating.

 

[srkbadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

KaMiGo, in your time on said council, was there ever an earnest discussion about the pros and cons of the current coaching staff? Or was the focus on RC Cola issues and the like? Were the UW AD members of the council receptive to the discussion of personnel issues? What I'm getting at is whether this council is simply a front to placate fans so that they can feel heard, or is there real substance to the council?

BTW, while I don't think we agree on the state of program, I do appreciate you taking this heat. I can and will challenge you where I feel you are wrong. Ad hominen attacks, however, won't further the strength of my arguments. As Solo said, taking the long view, this program is nowhere near where it was in pre mid 90s. Maybe that's just the way its is. Tech used to be a power house, then faded for a long time and may now be on the upswing. Some of the power house programs (NoDak, Minnesota, Michigan, BC, etc.) have a bad year or two, but they haven't faded to our degree in the last decade or two. I think we compare favorably to any of these programs on most metrics, and as a fan and alumnus I have every right to ask for some accountability regarding our slide.

 

[Red_Rob]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

No. But as others have noted, Chuck/Andy had noted similar comments in the past. With the amount of trust I place in his reporting, I'm assuming that I'm at worst guilty of exaggerating.

Correct, Andy Baggot published it in the paper and madison.com He told Mike Eaves that alumni were telling prospects to stay away from WI. That is a HUGE problem, if you have lost the players and alumni, that's not a good thing. It's bad enough to lose the fans, but to lose the support of former players who go so far to tell prospects to avoid the program, there are issues.


http://host.madison.com/sports/coll...cle_4694a9a3-ac90-5f8c-8613-369f0338300a.html

"I told Eaves that a lot of fans were angry. I told him that some alums were mocking his 13-year tenure — which includes an NCAA title in 2006 and a runner-up finish in 2010 — and some were going so far as to nudge elite recruits elsewhere. I told Eaves that a sizable chunk of his audience was clamoring for him to be fired. "

 

[solovsfett]

Correct, Andy Baggot published it in the paper and madison.com He told Mike Eaves that alumni were telling prospects to stay away from WI. That is a HUGE problem, if you have lost the players and alumni, that's not a good thing. It's bad enough to lose the fans, but to lose the support of former players who go so far to tell prospects to avoid the program, there are issues.


http://host.madison.com/sports/coll...cle_4694a9a3-ac90-5f8c-8613-369f0338300a.html

"I told Eaves that a lot of fans were angry. I told him that some alums were mocking his 13-year tenure — which includes an NCAA title in 2006 and a runner-up finish in 2010 — and some were going so far as to nudge elite recruits elsewhere. I told Eaves that a sizable chunk of his audience was clamoring for him to be fired. "

Wow...I had a vague recollection of this but couldn't recall if it was chuck or Andy b who reported on this...that's the worst indictment you can have on eaves

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

but there is NO concerted effort to boycott Badger hockey games.

So there's no conspiracy? To quote Fidel Castro circa 1952, "I swear! We were just meeting for the meringue lessons!

There are 7,000 + from the "fan base" including me, who have elected NOT to renew any tickets until something changes.

I think to be fair, a reasonable number have also come to the conclusion that there is currently no need to have season tickets. The tipping point was passed (probably previously) and you can go to any game you want. And even 5-10 years ago I never really had any problem getting all the extra lower level seats I needed for people coming into town. If it was still an 8,500 seat arena, a fair number may still be worried they couldn't get good seats in the future.

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

KaMiGo, in your time on said council, was there ever an earnest discussion about the pros and cons of the current coaching staff? Or was the focus on RC Cola issues and the like? Were the UW AD members of the council receptive to the discussion of personnel issues? What I'm getting at is whether this council is simply a front to placate fans so that they can feel heard, or is there real substance to the council?

It was an interesting experience. There were a lot of internal workings that we were exposed to, in terms of what changes the department has made and why. There were also several times where the group was allowed an open floor to speak their mind on anything that concerned them to members of the administration.
It probably won't help his image with the people on this board but in the interest of full disclosure Barry was not at the meetings for those sessions; he was at the first 15 minutes of the first session (there were four quarterly meetings for the one-year term) to do a meet and greet session and then give us a speech on what this council was about and what was expected of us; he then handed things over to one of his Senior Associate ADs who was the point man for this group. This was a completely expected and acceptable move in my mind.
I felt that when the people were allowed the open floor that the members of the administration listened, asked follow-up/clarifying questions to help understand what was being said and used their judgement on what to take back to their executive committee.

A lot of the items were "here is what we are thinking about doing, what can we do to make this work best for everyone" type situations.

I had no expectations that this would be where a group of 20 fans would be able to vote yes or no on any major items, I expected this to be a chance to be able to provide feedback on changes that had occurred and serve as a focus group for upcoming changes that they were looking at.

So I guess it depends on what your definition of what "real substance" would be. If you think you could load this group up with anti-Eaves fans and use that as a way to force the administration to fire him you would be out of your mind. If you think that you could use your inclusion in the group to give you a chance to speak directly to members of the senior administration about things that concern you and know that they are listening then it would be more realistic.

 

[srkbadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I have no power to load any UW council up with anyone, nor would I be on such a council since the commute from Michigan would be a killer. Unless there's a travel reimbursement program. Just was interested in what it was about. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Red_Rob]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I think to be fair, a reasonable number have also come to the conclusion that there is currently no need to have season tickets. The tipping point was passed (probably previously) and you can go to any game you want. And even 5-10 years ago I never really had any problem getting all the extra lower level seats I needed for people coming into town. If it was still an 8,500 seat arena, a fair number may still be worried they couldn't get good seats in the future.

The folks next to me quit after being season ticket holders for 30 years, they would drive in from LaCrosse each and every Friday. It was weird to watch his grandkids grow up. My CIO quit after having tickets for 20 some years. Both had the same reasoning "it's not fun to watch, and if we want to go, I can easily get tickets whenever"

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I have no power to load any UW council up with anyone, nor would I be on such a council since the commute from Michigan would be a killer. Unless there's a travel reimbursement program. Just was interested in what it was about. Thanks for the insight.

In my group last year, there were a lot of people from outside of the immediate Madison area. A few from way up north in WI, maybe one from MN, a few from the Chicago area.

They tried to hold the meetings at the beginning or end of a week, and tried to work around weekends that some of the traveling people would be in town for a football or basketball game.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I can attest to former player disillusion to Eaves. I've heard first hand from two different guys (one played in the NHL and the other was a walk on that ended up playing a decent amount by the time he was done (neither under Eaves)). When I've interacted with both on other topics....they seem quite reasonable and not the type of guys that would expect Eaves to personally scan their tickets at the door, buy them a hot pretzel & soda out of his wallet, and escort them to their seats. When the history of your program (and the one guy certainly is) doesn't have a warm fuzzy feeling...you are going about thing the hard way. The alumni should be selling the program for you. Second hand (from someone that I trust and would definitely know based on his relationships) I've heard even recent players that played for Eaves are not advocates of the program to the degree you would expect for guys that came through, had success individually & team wise, and ended up in the NHL.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

The folks next to me quit after being season ticket holders for 30 years, they would drive in from LaCrosse each and every Friday. It was weird to watch his grandkids grow up. My CIO quit after having tickets for 20 some years. Both had the same reasoning "it's not fun to watch, and if we want to go, I can easily get tickets whenever"

Remove either one of those things and perhaps they consider staying. But I suppose it's anecdotal. What suggests to me that it's more complicated is that 2 years ago one of the best teams in the country skated at the KC and went 17-2 in front of home fans. It's really hard to ask for much more than that during the regular season, yet tix and attendance were at an 8 year low. There has always been an over supply of seats at the Kohl for what has been realistically sustainable, IMO. Like I said, smaller arena and there was still probably a still a significant (but depleted) wait list coming into this year.

So the obvious answer to all the problems is just cough up another $100 million to build a medium-sized hockey-only arena North of the KC that we can sell beer and coca cola and hang banners in! All problems solved!

You're welcome Badger fans.