Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

So if this is the case, and the helmet isn't dislodged by contact but by the player herself, why wouldn't a goalie dislodge her helmet every time a breakaway occurred? No one's gonna convince me that this play was called correctly, reversing an awarded goal after video review shows a goalie knocked her own helmet off in attempting a save. Bull hockey!

Exactly, that's what we were saying. And they didn't blow it dead, so that's where the screw up occured.

 

[Nowheresville]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

So if this is the case, and the helmet isn't dislodged by contact but by the player herself, why wouldn't a goalie dislodge her helmet every time a breakaway occurred? No one's gonna convince me that this play was called correctly, reversing an awarded goal after video review shows a goalie knocked her own helmet off in attempting a save. Bull hockey!

Sorry, but it was the right call. Once the helmet comes off the play is dead, period. The only reason the whistle wasn't blow is because it was a bang-bang play where the helmet came off maybe a second before the shot.

I will say in the case it really didn't seem to be intentional, it was just how the play developed. Madison held onto the puck for a very long time, crossing all the way across the net, before finally shooting into an open net when she was nearly to the far red line. The goalie lunged out about halfway across the net, trying to make the stop, and that's when it came off.

I have seen cases in the mens game of a goalie intentionally shaking off his own helmet. The most memorable was a few years ago, Mankato's goalie lost his helmet about 3 times in one game vs Minnesota, and the FSN cameras even caught him shaking it loose during a rush. As for why they don't do it all the time, I suppose if it was flagrant enough the ref could call a penalty, but I think the bigger reason is that most goalies don't want to risk taking a slapshot off their skull if the play doesn't stop fast enough.

 

[whoop87]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

I did not see the play at all but based on the description of the play by Nowheresville it sounds like the refs made the right call. I'm no ref but I would think they could call delay of game penalty on the netminder and/or award a penalty shot if they thought the goalie deliberately ditched the helmet in the heat of battle. I know of one occasion where the refs disallowed a goal in 1st OT (2008 BC-UNH men's Hockey East semi-final, 3OT game eventually won by BC) after reviewing the tape. UNH goalie and BC forward racing for a loose puck, collided way outside crease, goalie's cage went flying, another forward shot the puck into an empty net, NO whistle blown during the play...goal was disallowed after checking the tape.
Here's a link to the UNH game in question which describes the play...in case anybody thinks I'm making this stuff up

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/SPORTS/80321072/-1/rss02

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

I had never seen a goal overturned due to a goalie's helmet coming off. However, if it's the rule, it's the rule. Not really different than waving off a goal due to skate in the crease or being kicked in. Just because it's not initially called, doesn't mean it can't be overturned. The play itself was really strange. Packer make a great move and when Tomcikova went for the poke check (and missed) her helmet just fell off like less than a second before Packer buried it in the back of the net. I dispute that she held onto the puck for a "very" long time. She did so to clear the poke check attempt and then flipped it in. No way for her to know that she had to get it off quicker on the .00001% chance that the goalie's helmet randomly falls off.

Unfortunately, it killed off some much needed energy in the Kohl Center. Didn't really get loud again until Knight's game-winner with about 5 minutes left. Ultimately, it's great to get the sweep against a very game Bemidji team, but it's unfortunate that the big crowd wasn't treated to a higher scoring game.

 

[Carter]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Not really different than waving off a goal due to skate in the crease or being kicked in.

Except that both of these are violations by the offensive player, which is not at all present in this case. In this case the offensive player and her team are being punished for the clumsy actions of the goaltender.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Ultimately, it's great to get the sweep against a very game Bemidji team, but it's unfortunate that the big crowd wasn't treated to a higher scoring game.

If those in attendance are hockey fans and the game was well played by both teams, they should be okay with it. It's much better than a one-side blowout that is over after the first period. I didn't hear any Minnesota fans lamenting a 1-0 win over the Badgers earlier this month.

In this case the offensive player and her team are being punished for the clumsy actions of the goaltender.

Some things are bigger than the game, such as player safety. If both sides know that the play is dead once the goalie helmet is off, then there isn't any incentive for any attacking player to shoot at a lid-less goaltender, because it can't result in a goal. It's much better to win on a clean goal than a disputed one.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

I can't argue with that point. It doesn't seem equitable at all that a goal gets waved off when the offensive team didn't cause the helmet to fall off or get any competitive advantage because of it. Even if you factor in the safety component, Packer would have had to mis-hit it pretty badly to hit Tomcikova in the head.

Also, what if it had been a 30 foot slap shot goal and her helmet falls off when the puck is halfway to the net? I assume by this rule that the goal would count, but the goalie would have been in a hell of a lot more risk in this situation.

Except that both of these are violations by the offensive player, which is not at all present in this case. In this case the offensive player and her team are being punished for the clumsy actions of the goaltender.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

First, I'm not lamenting the win. Second, I thought the Badgers were just a step off all game. There were a lot of missed passes and more turnovers than I'm used to seeing from Wisconsin. I would have preferred a better played game and if that resulted in a Badger rout, so be it.

If those in attendance are hockey fans and the game was well played by both teams, they should be okay with it. It's much better than a one-side blowout that is over after the first period. I didn't hear any Minnesota fans lamenting a 1-0 win over the Badgers earlier this month.

Some things are bigger than the game, such as player safety. If both sides know that the play is dead once the goalie helmet is off, then there isn't any incentive for any attacking player to shoot at a lid-less goaltender, because it can't result in a goal. It's much better to win on a clean goal than a disputed one.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

First, I'm not lamenting the win.

I didn't say you were, but you seemed concerned about others in attendance. Good hockey fans, like good baseball fans, can be entertained by a 1-0 game. Those less familiar with the either of the sports are the ones than need goals or runs to keep them entertained.

As for the Badgers not playing at their usual level, credit Bemidji. The Beavers work hard all over the ice, and little comes easily against them. I'm sure Wisconsin played better last night than they did in blowing out Lindenwood twice, and if fans can't recognize that, then that is their loss. I didn't think that either team played well when Wisconsin beat UMD 4-3 in OT last weekend, but I would say they were both playing better at the end. The best games come against a worthy opponent, and if you would rather beat up on a team unable to compete near your level, then I will agree to disagree.

 

[Nowheresville]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

The play itself was really strange. Packer make a great move and when Tomcikova went for the poke check (and missed) her helmet just fell off like less than a second before Packer buried it in the back of the net. I dispute that she held onto the puck for a "very" long time. She did so to clear the poke check attempt and then flipped it in. No way for her to know that she had to get it off quicker on the .00001% chance that the goalie's helmet randomly falls off.

Of course there was no way of knowing, and I wasn't implying at all that she did anything wrong by holding it as long as she did. By "very long" we're really talking about miliseconds. If she waits another .5 seconds, she's behind the net and has no shot. It really was a beautiful play, it was just bad luck that the goalie's helmet came off, instantly making the play dead.

I agree it was a fun game to watch, and I'll take a quality, well-fought 1-0 win over a 11-0 crushing of a weak team for entertainment value, but the Badgers didn't seem to be completely on their game. They really have seemed to be a step off the past couple of weeks. They've had the talent to overcome their mistakes and sloppy play, but this wasn't the best performance they could give.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Let me put it this way, I wish the 1-0 game was Friday and the 3-2 OT win was on Saturday in front of 12,000+ fans. The way that game played out would have been better for those who haven't seen the Badger women play before. I would like to see some (any) carryover from this huge crowd to the upcoming series.

And to be clear, I also (as most reasonable people) would rather watch a well-played game against top competition compared to a rout against the Lindenwoods of the world.

There is no doubt that Bemidji was a part of why Wisconsin wasn't completely on, but some of it just seemed self-induced. With that said, the Badgers just finished a tough 8-game stretch against the WCHA's best and have only lost a point on their league lead. Can't really complain....

I didn't say you were, but you seemed concerned about others in attendance. Good hockey fans, like good baseball fans, can be entertained by a 1-0 game. Those less familiar with the either of the sports are the ones than need goals or runs to keep them entertained.

As for the Badgers not playing at their usual level, credit Bemidji. The Beavers work hard all over the ice, and little comes easily against them. I'm sure Wisconsin played better last night than they did in blowing out Lindenwood twice, and if fans can't recognize that, then that is their loss. I didn't think that either team played well when Wisconsin beat UMD 4-3 in OT last weekend, but I would say they were both playing better at the end. The best games come against a worthy opponent, and if you would rather beat up on a team unable to compete near your level, then I will agree to disagree.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

With that said, the Badgers just finished a tough 8-game stretch against the WCHA's best and have only lost a point on their league lead.

UW didn't lose anything this month; they started six points up on Minnesota, and the Badgers are still six up. The league title is yours.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

I didn't say you were, but you seemed concerned about others in attendance. Good hockey fans, like good baseball fans, can be entertained by a 1-0 game. Those less familiar with the either of the sports are the ones than need goals or runs to keep them entertained.

The thing is, most people in attendance at Fill the Bowl are NOT "good hockey fans." They're there for the novelty, or the free pizza or because its cheap and someone drags them. The good fans barely make attendance around 2,000 for regular games. That means 10,000 of the folks there last night were novelty fans and therefore did not appreciate the low-scoring game.

And the thing is, it just wasn't a good game for the Badgers. They're lucky the second period ended when it did - if it were 5 minutes longer, they'd have been down 2 goals, IMO. Credit Bemidji, but the Badgers just never really settled into their game. They didn't control the offensive zone, didn't manage many of the gorgeous finesse passes you usually see from them. In the third, they were getting odd-man rushes into the zone, but they'd get off one poor shot and that was it, they were retreating to play defense. I've come to expect to see prettier hockey from the Badgers and that wasn't in evidence on Saturday.

However, kudos to the 50-something lady behind me who brought 5 friends and spent the game explaining things to them. I hope she made some new fans. And kudos to her for knowing her stuff.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Yep, I had 7 on the brain because it was the biggest league lead they had after the shoot-out win to start the second semester....a lead they gave up the next day.

UW didn't lose anything this month; they started six points up on Minnesota, and the Badgers are still six up. The league title is yours.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

The thing is, most people in attendance at Fill the Bowl are NOT "good hockey fans." They're there for the novelty, or the free pizza or because its cheap and someone drags them. The good fans barely make attendance around 2,000 for regular games. That means 10,000 of the folks there last night were novelty fans and therefore did not appreciate the low-scoring game.

I see. I'd hope that some of the 10,000 are either familiar with men's hockey or have been to a few women's games over the years. But I know what you're saying, once you get past the core fans, and they are precious and few with any program, familiarity with the women's game drops in a hurry.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

The thing is, most people in attendance at Fill the Bowl are NOT "good hockey fans." They're there for the novelty, or the free pizza or because its cheap and someone drags them. The good fans barely make attendance around 2,000 for regular games. That means 10,000 of the folks there last night were novelty fans and therefore did not appreciate the low-scoring game.

And the thing is, it just wasn't a good game for the Badgers. They're lucky the second period ended when it did - if it were 5 minutes longer, they'd have been down 2 goals, IMO. Credit Bemidji, but the Badgers just never really settled into their game. They didn't control the offensive zone, didn't manage many of the gorgeous finesse passes you usually see from them. In the third, they were getting odd-man rushes into the zone, but they'd get off one poor shot and that was it, they were retreating to play defense. I've come to expect to see prettier hockey from the Badgers and that wasn't in evidence on Saturday.

IMHO, you are off point. The men were obviously out of town, so I would say the majority of the fans were hockey fans in general who would normally just attend the men's games, but attended the women's game instead. And I think the crowd was great, better than the UW men's UAA tilt I was to the week before.

Bemiji played great team D. They did not allow UW any odd woman rushes and their sticks were in passing lanes all night.

Personally, I am equally entertained by 1-0 tight games and 11-0 blowouts. We were a little bummed we didn't get free custard.

 

[northhockey]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

I don't think there ever is a way to determine exactly why the fans showed up. My only input is a few years ago UND gave a free semester of schooling to one und student who attended a game against minnesota and the crowd was great. obviously, even within the students, some could be there for free semester, good hockey game, or both.

 

[Nowheresville]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Ignoring the obvious joke about finding more than a handful of "good hockey fans" at a sold out UW mens game, 12,400 would actually be a good number for the mens team most nights this year.

Fill the Bowl's 12,400 is the 5th highest hockey attendance at the Kohl this year. It is more people than who have been to any Friday Night mens game, and just 4 Saturday night mens games have been better (MN, UMD, RIT, Anchorage).

I don't know what that means. Clearly, its still mostly a novelty, but it does show you can get people to come to the Womens games in the right situation and there is a good base of support for the team. However, I might argue that getting nearly 4,000 people out previous Sunday afternoon to the UMD game that didn't get any significant promotion or have $1 tickets may actually have been the more impressive feat.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Mankato scored very early and very late in the game, but the Ammerman sisters outscored them over the balance of the game for a Badger 5-2 win.

Looking forward to going out to the game Sunday for some pre-Super Bowl entertainment.

Boy, I really hope the new arena eliminates/minimizes these stupid Friday 2:00 start times. Haven't been able to get out to any of them.

 

[Carter]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2011-12 - The Drive for Five

Boy, I really hope the new arena eliminates/minimizes these stupid Friday 2:00 start times. Haven't been able to get out to any of them.

They still won't be evening games when the men are at home, will they? I can't see them pitting the two against each other.