Welcome folks, to the Biden administration!

[French Rage]

Yeah in general I'm wondering if non-majority groups stick their necks out too much, they become the targets, so there's a tendency to stick to the middle and not rock the boat too much aside from a few choice issues. See how black people turned out in droves to vote in GA in 2020 and now as a reward get to not vote anymore.

 

[Handyman]

That's half of it.

The other half is, when oppressed groups protest, they are murdered by the cops.

We should keep both in mind. When a Righty screams about SJW Whites, he's saying "I'm a racist and you are making me uncomfortable!" So white male protest may be self-serving... but SO WHAT? If there's a social wrong then let's all get on the right side of history. I'm sure 98% of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam Era were either (1) trying to saving their own skin (20%), or (2) trying to get laid (78%). So what? It got our soldiers home.

I thought that was implied ;^)

 

[Kepler]

I thought that was implied ;^)

It was (humans trying to get laid is always implied), but arguments citing paternalism or white saviorism are now as cringe as "SJW" or "Self-hating Jew." Just another barricade to topple on the way to the target.

 

[rufus]

See, call me a bad person( I know, I am) but I could care less about the baseball team called the Cleveland Indians, or a football team called the Washington Redskins. I like those names, its their history, and the way it has been for my entire life. I don't need to raise a stink about changing them, and I don't find them offensive. As far as I know, the Native Americans don't really give a crap about it either. Or at least, its far down on the priority list about things they do care about. If I'm wrong, and they want the name changed, then fine.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Black men.

Black people are not allies of LGBTQ. You're not supposed to notice, but oh man it's obvious.

The blacks they have the Jesus Disease, bad. Just something our coalition has to live with.

When the South Carolina primary was up people were already trying to "explain" why Pete Buttigieg was going to do poorly there, what with the very large number of black voters among those would cast ballots in the Democratic primary. The politically correct version is he was a mayor of yet another city where a white cop shot an unarmed (he was unarmed when the cop pulled the trigger) black man. Yeah, that was it. South Bend is the only place that happens.

 

[psych]

Ok, two gripes. And I don't know how to phrase this any better.

The pew and 538 articles on black voters ask how they identify using a relative marker. But I disagree with that entire premise because

a) how are they measuring? Relative to what? Other black voters? The electorate? Americans by and large are terrible at estimating anything. We saw that in that recent study that asked what proportion of America was [insert some demographic].

The money experiment was very interesting, seemingly a lot like the old "how do you keep a [various religions] from drinking all your beer?" It also ignores the fact that voting is 100% secret. You have the option to vote for whomever you want and lie about it. Why wouldn't a conservative black voter cast a GOP vote and then lie? Or maybe they do and exit polling is picking up on the effect of the money experiment.

b) Voter self-identification isn't the same as a quantitative analysis of voting and effect from voting. If black voters call themselves conservative but vote for democrats more than whites, then, are they really conservative? (And again, relative to what?).

Fair points. I think you just look at who people of color elect, especially when they have the full power of their voice heard through voting (majority Black, AAPI, Latino districts, or majority-minority districts), and on average, their representatives are centrists; for Latinos, many are “centrist” Republicans. The few exceptions are representatives like Ritchie Torres in NYC or Ro Khanna in CA. Black Americans in the South helped Clinton/Biden pull away from Sanders in the Democratic primaries, but Latinos/AAPI preferred Sanders to Biden. It was a wash for Latinos between Clinton and Sanders, while AAPI preferred Sanders over Clinton. Now, being pragmatic doesn’t necessarily mean centrist in actual policy views. So, there’s that too.

 

[Handyman]

It also depends how you define "Centrist". In reality the majority of any group is going to be to the center...center is average. The vocal will be on the fringes but the vocal are almost always a minority.

Voting for Joe Biden over Bernie Sanders doesn't make you a Centrist, it often makes you a pragmatist. There is a better chance that Joe Biden can get done things on behalf of the people than Sanders even if you agree 100% with Sanders on the issues.

There is a show on Hulu called "Woke" which I highly recommend for about 100000 reasons but one of the best was when the main character (a Black cartoonist who becomes an activist after being profiled by the San Fran PD) went to a White Corporation about an ad they were doing where Martin Luther King, Jr. was giving everyone free wifi. The board of the company was all young White people who thought they were culturally sensitive. (they do diversity training!!1!1!!!) There is also a junior exec who is a young Indian Man who just nods along to whatever idea they have. They think he is doing it cause he agrees with their ideas until the main character of the show points out that a POC will never feel comfortable at work when they are surrounded by White People who have the power to hire and fire him based on his opinions. They will sit in the corner (which this guy was doing) and just not make a fuss. Better to not be noticed than to speak your mind and be out of work. When he is allowed to speak freely he admits the idea sucked and he was scared of them. They still don't seem to get it.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I’d also say using terms like “Latino” and “AAPI” are painting with a really broad brush. Latino is assuming that Mexicans and Cubans all want the same thing (and that’s not even getting into the Latinx minefield). AAPI is undoubtedly the worst because Pacific Islanders can be wildly different from say Koreans or Vietnamese versus Japanese.

And that’s not even getting into urban/rural or Southern/Western divides.

 

[psych]

I’d also say using terms like “Latino” and “AAPI” are painting with a really broad brush. Latino is assuming that Mexicans and Cubans all want the same thing (and that’s not even getting into the Latinx minefield). AAPI is undoubtedly the worst because Pacific Islanders can be wildly different from say Koreans or Vietnamese versus Japanese.

And that’s not even getting into urban/rural or Southern/Western divides.

100%. I noted in another post that neither of those groups are monolithic blocs, as evidenced by Floridian Cubans voting for a GOP’er in Salazar, Mexicans in South Texas voting for Cuellar, and Torres representing the Bronx. People of color itself is clearly a lazy, catch-all term that’s broad as fuck, but since I was speaking in an overall broad theme with a broad brush, Kepler-style, I acknowledge the inadequacies of the analysis when getting into the finer points.

Edit: Mexicans in South Texas voting for an American politician would be illegal. I’ll go ahead and correct myself to Americans of Mexican descent.

 

[MichVandal]

I’d also say using terms like “Latino” and “AAPI” are painting with a really broad brush. Latino is assuming that Mexicans and Cubans all want the same thing (and that’s not even getting into the Latinx minefield). AAPI is undoubtedly the worst because Pacific Islanders can be wildly different from say Koreans or Vietnamese versus Japanese.

And that’s not even getting into urban/rural or Southern/Western divides.

Even in localities, Puerto Rican's hardly agree on stuff. The concept that Puerto Rico would just be a windfall for D's is only because of identity politics that r's play. Otherwise, Puerto Rico has been going back and forth with control forever (at least as long as I've paid attention- which is just under 30 years now).

And so many Cubans in SoFla got there because of Castro, and they are mostly VERY conservative- to the point of ignoring identity politics.

"Morality" to an island mostly who are Catholics match the right pretty well.

It's no wonder Progressives have so much trouble- so many minorities in their own party are not for it.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Even in localities, Puerto Rican's hardly agree on stuff. The concept that Puerto Rico would just be a windfall for D's is only because of identity politics that r's play. Otherwise, Puerto Rico has been going back and forth with control forever (at least as long as I've paid attention- which is just under 30 years now).

And so many Cubans in SoFla got there because of Castro, and they are mostly VERY conservative- to the point of ignoring identity politics.

"Morality" to an island mostly who are Catholics match the right pretty well.

It's no wonder Progressives have so much trouble- so many minorities in their own party are not for it.

Same kind of thing with “Asians”. Koreans can largely be more socially and economically conservative than many Christian Whites.

Pacific Islanders can have a weird split of Mormon fundies and wildly progressive, LGBTQ accepting people.

 

[dxmnkd316]

While I'm sure there are flaws with the studies, I do know that minorities are not fully Democrat. Which is what makes the identity politics of the R's such a joke. They would be far better off as a party if they dropped that, and just went back to pre-Reagan Republican. But the racists Dixicrats that moved over has really done a number on that party.

Right, but that's not the question. The question is whether blacks and other minorities are, as a whole, more or less liberal or conservative than whites or the entire voting population.

I don't think anyone would argue that minorities are fully Democratic. No one is. I think that just like every voting bloc, there's a distribution. It doesn't make sense to me that a group that overwhelmingly votes Democratic is somehow less liberal than a group whose majority votes Republican. It doesn't make sense.

 

[dxmnkd316]

That's half of it.

The other half is, when oppressed groups protest, they are murdered by the cops.

We should keep both in mind. When a Righty screams about SJW Whites, he's saying "I'm a racist and you are making me uncomfortable!" So white male protest may be self-serving... but SO WHAT? If there's a social wrong then let's all get on the right side of history. I'm sure 98% of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam Era were either (1) trying to saving their own skin (20%), or (2) trying to get laid (78%). So what? It got our soldiers home.

I mean you only have to look at what happened with the Dakota Access Pipeline for a recent example of of this with Native Americans.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Black men.

Black people are not allies of LGBTQ. You're not supposed to notice, but oh man it's obvious.

The blacks they have the Jesus Disease, bad. Just something our coalition has to live with.

And plenty of white gay men, particularly the well-to-do professional ones, are secretly very racist.

 

[MissThundercat]

I remember learning that in PoliSci and I didn't buy it. Part of the reason was because we are taught about the extreme people of color in history and they sort of become our example of what POC political beliefs are. Then I worked and lived in areas that were majority POC and I saw how wrong it was. White People have major blind spots and Democrats have it even worse.

When I was a sophomore at the U NoDak was coming to town. Of course protesters were out in full force whining about the name. I am not being hyperbolic to say that 80-90% of them were Suburban White Males. They were yelling and screaming, angry over the oppression of the Natives by UND. Of the few Natives that were actually there none of them were angry, none were threatening or whatever, they held a sign and caused no issues.

See, White People have a savior complex. We infantilize everyone who is different and have convinced ourselves that if we don't put all of our strength into bettering others, they have no shot to do it. Only we can do it, because we are better. I mean we don't say we are better, but that is why we are doing it. Its not enough to just be an ally we have to be fucking Superman lifting them up from the bondage of their less than status so we can feel good about ourselves.

POC have the same spectrum we do when it comes to politics and the center is always going to be where the majority flock. The difference is we have the ability to outwardly flaunt our "Far Left" or "Far Right" attitudes because there will be no repercussions. POC not so much.

I've noticed this with cishets too. People like me are told we can't have any sort of affirming surgery without jumping through hoops because of "regret." When pressed for evidence, there's none to be had. It's been suggested I simply move to a blue state, even though I can barely afford Grand Rapids.

And when I say I've had enough of this, I get yelled at, called a bully and worse. It's a badge of honor, though. I refuse to be treated as a child who can't make her own decisions.

 

[psych]

Right, but that's not the question. The question is whether blacks and other minorities are, as a whole, more or less liberal or conservative than whites or the entire voting population.

I don't think anyone would argue that minorities are fully Democratic. No one is. I think that just like every voting bloc, there's a distribution. It doesn't make sense to me that a group that overwhelmingly votes Democratic is somehow less liberal than a group whose majority votes Republican. It doesn't make sense.

I’m not arguing that black people are less liberal than white people. I’m saying that white people represents the tails of the political bell curve (extreme right, extreme left). As a whole, 100% black people are more liberal than whites.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I’m not arguing that black people are less liberal than white people. I’m saying that white people represents the tails of the political bell curve (extreme right, extreme left). As a whole, 100% black people are more liberal than whites.

I still disagree with that premise. I don't think we're a perfect bell curve, but we sure as hell don't make up the extremes and only the extremes.

 

[psych]

I still disagree with that premise. I don't think we're a perfect bell curve, but we sure as hell don't make up the extremes and only the extremes.

I’m not either. There’s a reason I said in a previous post that centrists are also made up of rich, mostly white people, as well, since they benefit from both parties being in power. I do think we make up more of the extremes, whether it’s because we can afford to do so, because we actually believe in more extreme policy positions, a combination of the two, or none of the above.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I’m not either. There’s a reason I said in a previous post that centrists are also made up of rich, mostly white people, as well, since they benefit from both parties being in power. I do think we make up more of the extremes, whether it’s because we can afford to do so, because we actually believe in more extreme policy positions, a combination of the two, or none of the above.

I think that last part is dead on. I was going to add to a post earlier saying it wouldn't surprise me that minorities don't hold more extreme positions like loan forgiveness, needle exchanges, ubi, etc when they're just trying to get basic voter rights and not having cops kill them

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I am a little perturbed with the moral relativism of the piece but this is well written, is correct about so many things, and is well worth the read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/