Welcome folks, to the Biden administration!

[WeAreNDHockey]

We as a party haven't moved that far left in recent decades. The GOP, on the other hand, has moved extremely far right in recent decades.

In reality the democratic party is significanttly further to the right of where it stood 3 or 4 decades ago. As the republicans were moving to the extreme right fringes the democratic party began creeping rightward. Lots of tough on crime and welfare reform nonsense, a complete lack of any meaningful labor law reform, a near complete abandonment of reasonable gun safety reform, finding far too many ways to be sympatico with republican drives to eliminate taxes on corporations and the wealthy, there are a hundred ways the democrats moved rightward throughout the 80s and into the 21st century.

Our so-called major liberal party is actually light years to the right of most of the rest of the world's liberal/progressive major parties. I think the rightward drift seems to have stopped in the last dozen or so years, but one of the things I hate most about political talk in this country is the notion both parties have drifted toward their own extreme fringes. The republicans have turned fascist. Democrats are no more socialist now than they were in 1972. Less so actually.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

The center has moved to the right of Richard Nixon. Why the center continues to not vote for Democrats and still vote for Republicans i.e. BSABSVR is beyond my comprehension.

 

[psych]

In reality the democratic party is significanttly further to the right of where it stood 3 or 4 decades ago. As the republicans were moving to the extreme right fringes the democratic party began creeping rightward. Lots of tough on crime and welfare reform nonsense, a complete lack of any meaningful labor law reform, a near complete abandonment of reasonable gun safety reform, finding far too many ways to be sympatico with republican drives to eliminate taxes on corporations and the wealthy, there are a hundred ways the democrats moved rightward throughout the 80s and into the 21st century.

Our so-called major liberal party is actually light years to the right of most of the rest of the world's liberal/progressive major parties. I think the rightward drift seems to have stopped in the last dozen or so years, but one of the things I hate most about political talk in this country is the notion both parties have drifted toward their own extreme fringes. The republicans have turned fascist. Democrats are no more socialist now than they were in 1972. Less so actually.

I don’t disagree with any of this. Our progressive wing is tucked inside our Democratic Party, just like Joe Manchin is also stored inside of our party. Having two healthy, viable parties versus six, or twelve, should mean a lot of diversity in each party, since their coalitions are huge. Clear to mostly everyone on here, one party is liberal whites and nearly all people of color. The other is mostly rich whites and uneducated and/or religious white people. So, one party has diversity, the other doesn’t. In other countries, people of color would likely represent the vast majority of the center-left and center-right parties, with white people on the fringes. How healthy would that be? White people would actually have to cater to people of color’s voices in a collaborative environment, as in, getting their representatives’ votes on important issues, versus the lip service that even Democrats can fall into with people of color. Again, I recognize the current environment in the US is not conducive for third party voting, much less third parties, but if we ever step back from the precipice, and move back toward a healthy democracy, we could build a system that allows the thriving of third parties. I recognize that is likely a pipe dream.

 

[Handyman]

And, since I didn't already write enough, on average, people of color are more centrist than white people. White people get to represent the extremes of both parties, because we feel the negative effects of negative policy decisions that restrict voting, civil rights, etc., much less than people of color do. Obvious statement being obvious, the fact that the vast majority of people of color are centrist, yet vote almost exclusively Democrats into office, should be telling enough.

Our ultimate privilege is we have the ability to be on the extremes because we risk nothing to do so. We take a shot and lose, we can take another shot. POC not so much.

Man you are on point today!

 

[rufus]

So, let me see if I have this straight:

1. Centrists who don't vote Democrat are fucking us.
2. You're a centrist.
3. You didn't vote Democrat

Conclusion: *you* are the one fucking up America.

And yet, you are the one coming on here wringing your hands and giving the Democrats your pearls of wisdom on policy choices. Just stop.

Drew's definition of centrist is someone who supports the entirety of Republican policy, just doesn't like the fascism and overthrowing government shit.

 

[MissThundercat]

Our ultimate privilege is we have the ability to be on the extremes because we risk nothing to do so. We take a shot and lose, we can take another shot. POC not so much.

Man you are on point today!

And queers like me.

I will never understand queers who vote Conservative. "Thanks for leading us to the slaughter!"

 

[dxmnkd316]

And, since I didn't already write enough, on average, people of color are more centrist than white people. White people get to represent the extremes of both parties, because we feel the negative effects of negative policy decisions that restrict voting, civil rights, etc., much less than people of color do. Obvious statement being obvious, the fact that the vast majority of people of color are centrist, yet vote almost exclusively Democrats into office, should be telling enough.

Ehhh, you're going to need to cite a source for that one.

 

[psych]

Ehhh, you're going to need to cite a source for that one.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-diversity-of-black-political-views/amp/

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/progressive-left/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-about-black-democrats/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...e-democrats-even-when-they-arent-liberal/amp/

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2016/10/11/latinos-and-the-political-parties/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-asian-americans-are-thinking-about-the-2020-election/amp/

 

[dxmnkd316]

Gracias

 

[dxmnkd316]

Ok, two gripes. And I don't know how to phrase this any better.

The pew and 538 articles on black voters ask how they identify using a relative marker. But I disagree with that entire premise because

a) how are they measuring? Relative to what? Other black voters? The electorate? Americans by and large are terrible at estimating anything. We saw that in that recent study that asked what proportion of America was [insert some demographic].

The money experiment was very interesting, seemingly a lot like the old "how do you keep a [various religions] from drinking all your beer?" It also ignores the fact that voting is 100% secret. You have the option to vote for whomever you want and lie about it. Why wouldn't a conservative black voter cast a GOP vote and then lie? Or maybe they do and exit polling is picking up on the effect of the money experiment.

b) Voter self-identification isn't the same as a quantitative analysis of voting and effect from voting. If black voters call themselves conservative but vote for democrats more than whites, then, are they really conservative? (And again, relative to what?).

 

[Kepler]

All good points. Pew seems pretty much the gold standard for political polling now, as far as methodology goes, at least among orgs you or I will ever hear of, and all of those valid points are polling / sampling 101. Do they address them? Sure. Effectively? I dunno.

 

[MichVandal]

While I'm sure there are flaws with the studies, I do know that minorities are not fully Democrat. Which is what makes the identity politics of the R's such a joke. They would be far better off as a party if they dropped that, and just went back to pre-Reagan Republican. But the racists Dixicrats that moved over has really done a number on that party.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

While I'm sure there are flaws with the studies, I do know that minorities are not fully Democrat. Which is what makes the identity politics of the R's such a joke. They would be far better off as a party if they dropped that, and just went back to pre-Reagan Republican. But the racists Dixicrats that moved over has really done a number on that party.

Pre-Reagan Republican actually believed in Health Care for all Americans. Republicans cannot afford that kind of policy idea.

 

[Kepler]

Pre-Reagan Republican actually believed in Health Care for all Americans. Republicans cannot afford that kind of policy idea.

Pre-Reagan Republican actually believed in environmentalism. Republicans cannot afford that kind of policy idea.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

While I'm sure there are flaws with the studies, I do know that minorities are not fully Democrat. Which is what makes the identity politics of the R's such a joke. They would be far better off as a party if they dropped that, and just went back to pre-Reagan Republican. But the racists Dixicrats that moved over has really done a number on that party.

Anecdotally, I’m not sure I’ve come across more staunch anti-trans group than black women

 

[Kepler]

Anecdotally, I’m not sure I’ve come across more staunch anti-trans group than black women

Black men.

Black people are not allies of LGBTQ. You're not supposed to notice, but oh man it's obvious.

The blacks they have the Jesus Disease, bad. Just something our coalition has to live with.

 

[Handyman]

And queers like me.

I will never understand queers who vote Conservative. "Thanks for leading us to the slaughter!"

I have said this before on here...a friend of a friend is a Black Gay Man who is a full on Trump lover. Apparently he feels Trump is great for the Gays and because he is in denial about his race. (he was raised by White parents I think) That is a guy who one day will wake up and see how wrong he was...lets just pray it isn't because of a tragedy.

 

[Handyman]

Ehhh, you're going to need to cite a source for that one.

I remember learning that in PoliSci and I didn't buy it. Part of the reason was because we are taught about the extreme people of color in history and they sort of become our example of what POC political beliefs are. Then I worked and lived in areas that were majority POC and I saw how wrong it was. White People have major blind spots and Democrats have it even worse.

When I was a sophomore at the U NoDak was coming to town. Of course protesters were out in full force whining about the name. I am not being hyperbolic to say that 80-90% of them were Suburban White Males. They were yelling and screaming, angry over the oppression of the Natives by UND. Of the few Natives that were actually there none of them were angry, none were threatening or whatever, they held a sign and caused no issues.

See, White People have a savior complex. We infantilize everyone who is different and have convinced ourselves that if we don't put all of our strength into bettering others, they have no shot to do it. Only we can do it, because we are better. I mean we don't say we are better, but that is why we are doing it. Its not enough to just be an ally we have to be fucking Superman lifting them up from the bondage of their less than status so we can feel good about ourselves.

POC have the same spectrum we do when it comes to politics and the center is always going to be where the majority flock. The difference is we have the ability to outwardly flaunt our "Far Left" or "Far Right" attitudes because there will be no repercussions. POC not so much.

 

[Handyman]

Anecdotally, I’m not sure I’ve come across more staunch anti-trans group than black women

And lest we forget how when Obama was elected it lead to California passing Prop 8 because while Blacks voted Democrat they were also not exactly pro LGBTQ+.

edit: As Kepler pointed out :^)

 

[Kepler]

See, White People have a savior complex. We infantilize everyone who is different and have convinced ourselves that if we don't put all of our strength into bettering others, they have no shot to do it. Only we can do it, because we are better. I mean we don't say we are better, but that is why we are doing it. Its not enough to just be an ally we have to be fucking Superman lifting them up from the bondage of their less than status so we can feel good about ourselves.

That's half of it.

The other half is, when oppressed groups protest, they are murdered by the cops.

We should keep both in mind. When a Righty screams about SJW Whites, he's saying "I'm a racist and you are making me uncomfortable!" So white male protest may be self-serving... but SO WHAT? If there's a social wrong then let's all get on the right side of history. I'm sure 98% of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam Era were either (1) trying to saving their own skin (20%), or (2) trying to get laid (78%). So what? It got our soldiers home.