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UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Jayden_Stoff said:
Question for the forum - who is the most successful player more or less asked to leave (meaning they didn't leave early and sign some sort of pro contract) under Sneddon's tenure? I'm going to go with David Pacan. My understanding is that he was asked to leave for complications with under aged drinking and was considered too much of a liability to have on Campus. Mike Adkinson might be a candidate in IMHO. He collected around 50 points playing for QU. He was asked to leave UVM after crashing a car into a building on campus while drunk before playing any games or maybe even starting to practice with the team.
Click to expand...

I believe Pacan was dismissed by the university for violation of the student conduct code, not the hockey team for violation of the student-athlete code of conduct. This decision was taken out of the hands of the hockey team since he apparently had other such violations. Atkinson I believe you are correct but it happened before the season so I didn't know if that was a university or team decision. Either way, it would seem a bit difficult to categorize his departure in the same context of the many "ran him off the team" accusations levied against the UVM coaching staff (The "run off" might or might not be true in other cases; can't say).

And while this is being discussed, I believe several players who reportedly left through dissatisfaction or were forced to leave the actually never did. Jeff Hill graduated and is the team's current goalie coach; John Vazzano stayed until graduation, perhaps even a fifth year, although Alex Vazzano did go to Sacred Heart (I think). Kyle Reynolds fought injuries, but he came to UVM with only three years of eligibility and stayed for the three plus I believe an injury red-shirt year; he was past the age of 21 entering UVM and consequently lost a year of eligibility. Matt Marshall graduated, then went to Northeastern as a grad student for his final year of eligibility but I don't think he played or played very little. As an older goalie and a free agent, it seems unlikely Hoffman would have stayed beyond his junior year under any circumstances. Pete Massar transferred to UVM with two years of eligibility and played two years. Doerring was another who's career was hurt by injuries before he transferred. I believe but am not certain that Greims was a family situation; I think he started the year but left before hockey began.

Others? Who knows? Certainly anyone can and has the right to criticize, and there certainly have been things worthy of criticism, but sometimes "facts" can be misconstrued in building cases for or against the current coaching regime.

Just my perspective.
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Long time no post for me, though I read often. As my name implies, I graduated UVM in 1993, and my brother attended before me, so I've been following UVM hockey pretty consistently for 30 years.

My two cents on the current state of affairs:

I grew up in the Gilligan era, and I was excited when Sneddon was hired. Gilligan's teams were frustrating in that they tantalized with enough quality division one talent to make you think they could be pretty good (LeClair, Soucy, Miller, Ducharme, etc) but usually made a couple of boneheaded plays a game that kept them from really being competitive at the highest levels. Stuff I always felt could have been coached better....bad line changes, stupid penalties, etc. Then came the St. Louis/Perrin/Thomas era, and we all know how great that was. While everyone needs a little luck, in retrospect I feel like the Cats getting all three of those guys at the same time and having them perform at that level was quite a stroke of luck. Then we fell off quickly, scandal, etc. I understand and respect his place in Vermont hockey history, but I was ready for Gilligan to go long before he left.

Sneddon seemed like a good hire when we brought him on, I was really excited about it. I was interested in a new start and getting past the hazing scandal. For the first part of his tenure I really did see some improvements, and I felt like we were going in the right direction. I was ready to give Sneddon a long leash. It seemed like that paid off in 2009 with another Frozen Four trip. But with the benefit of hindsight and a 2003-present body of work to reflect on, I'm sad to say that my patience has worn thin. The 2009 trip to the frozen four seems like we lucked out, an at large birth and a weak regional where the top two seeds lost. And Sneddon's career winning percentage is now effectively tied with Bill Ruffner for the worst all time in school history. Bill coached two years. Coach Sneddon has a 12 year track record now. I get that we are in a tough league now and all that. Still, think about that. Worst winning percentage in school history....over TWELVE years.

I have a lot of respect for Coach Sneddon, I really do. I'm not here to bash him. My point is simple...I think we know enough to know that he's not the guy to pick us up to the next level. And that's ok. He might be perfect for another school as he's clearly a good hockey coach. But he's not the guy that's going to get us, Vermont, to be competitive in Hockey East on a regular basis.

To pre-emptively answer, yes I do understand how hard it is to be competitive in Hockey East. But we are talking about the University of Vermont, a state university here in the great USA. It is time we acted like we have some expectations to be successful. Why is it that we don't expect success like other schools do? Why do our coaches seem to always stay until they choose to leave? Do we ever fire coaches? We do not have football, a decision I fully agree with. We have dropped baseball, which was likely the right financial decision but was troubling to me. We are, in my view, acceptably competitive in soccer (and hopefully on the rise in lacrosse). But the two remaining "big four" sports are basketball and hockey. I can understand the high hurdles to national prominence in basketball and overall I'm pretty happy with our performance there. But hockey is the one place where I think we could, and should, truly excel on the national level. Yet we do not. As a contributing alum, I in fact do expect more from our hockey program and think it is time for a change of leadership.

Finally, to pile on the numerous other posts on this topic, it escapes me why we are not already building a new multi use facility. I think it would quickly pay off in increased alumni interaction, more applications, more donations, etc. It is a proven model, athletic success benefiting schools greatly. It would most benefit both hockey and basketball, the two sports where we can hope to have some success (I define success in basketball as making the NCAA tourney 3-5X per decade and winning a first round NCAA game once in a very great while. In Hockey East I think we should be making the Garden and NCAA tourney 5X per decade and winning HE and making a frozen four 1X per decade.) To me, this does not seem impossible with a new facility and new leadership. I'm ready for the change and hope to see it happen. However, I am worried that as a community UVM doesn't have the gumption to aim for such an improvement. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Cats.
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Jayden_Stoff said:
Question for the forum - who is the most successful player more or less asked to leave (meaning they didn't leave early and sign some sort of pro contract) under Sneddon's tenure? I'm going to go with David Pacan. My understanding is that he was asked to leave for complications with under aged drinking and was considered too much of a liability to have on Campus. Mike Adkinson might be a candidate in IMHO. He collected around 50 points playing for QU. He was asked to leave UVM after crashing a car into a building on campus while drunk before playing any games or maybe even starting to practice with the team.
Click to expand...

I'd probably say Wahs Stacey or Justin Milo. My $0.02.
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

I've followed UVM casually for a long time and I will probably start paying closer attention now that one of my kids will be a student there.

I never liked Sneddon's teams when he was at Union. They were consistently one of the least skilled and dirtiest teams in the league - and one of the worst college games I ever saw actually was a game I watched on television between Union and UVM. Nothing but holding, interference, slashing, and cheap shots for 60 minutes. I don't know how the UVM players made it through that game without pulling a Marty McSorley. I've never thought his UVM teams played that way, probably because at the time he made the move he had access to much better players at UVM than he did at Union. To be fair, they did improve while he was there and he probably laid the groundwork for what Leaman accomplished. But I still never liked the way they played and I think it was a reflection on the head coach. My biggest beef with him at UVM is that I've never liked the way he acts and speaks after losses. He thinks nothing of throwing individual guys under the bus, and I think he has a tendency to blame the players when things don't go right without acknowledging that he's the guy who brought them in and is supposed to be teaching them to play. A lot of coaches will go out of their way to shield their players from undue criticism. It's always felt to me like Sneddon does just the opposite.
 
13617205401 said:
I've followed UVM casually for a long time and I will probably start paying closer attention now that one of my kids will be a student there.

I never liked Sneddon's teams when he was at Union. They were consistently one of the least skilled and dirtiest teams in the league - and one of the worst college games I ever saw actually was a game I watched on television between Union and UVM. Nothing but holding, interference, slashing, and cheap shots for 60 minutes. I don't know how the UVM players made it through that game without pulling a Marty McSorley. I've never thought his UVM teams played that way, probably because at the time he made the move he had access to much better players at UVM than he did at Union. To be fair, they did improve while he was there and he probably laid the groundwork for what Leaman accomplished. But I still never liked the way they played and I think it was a reflection on the head coach. My biggest beef with him at UVM is that I've never liked the way he acts and speaks after losses. He thinks nothing of throwing individual guys under the bus, and I think he has a tendency to blame the players when things don't go right without acknowledging that he's the guy who brought them in and is supposed to be teaching them to play. A lot of coaches will go out of their way to shield their players from undue criticism. It's always felt to me like Sneddon does just the opposite.
Click to expand...

Kevin often does blame himself when things don't go well, but appears frustrated at times, and does call out players who do not play with passion.
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Catamount93 said:
Long time no post for me, though I read often. As my name implies, I graduated UVM in 1993, and my brother attended before me, so I've been following UVM hockey pretty consistently for 30 years.

My two cents on the current state of affairs:

I grew up in the Gilligan era, and I was excited when Sneddon was hired. Gilligan's teams were frustrating in that they tantalized with enough quality division one talent to make you think they could be pretty good (LeClair, Soucy, Miller, Ducharme, etc) but usually made a couple of boneheaded plays a game that kept them from really being competitive at the highest levels. Stuff I always felt could have been coached better....bad line changes, stupid penalties, etc. Then came the St. Louis/Perrin/Thomas era, and we all know how great that was. While everyone needs a little luck, in retrospect I feel like the Cats getting all three of those guys at the same time and having them perform at that level was quite a stroke of luck. Then we fell off quickly, scandal, etc. I understand and respect his place in Vermont hockey history, but I was ready for Gilligan to go long before he left.

Sneddon seemed like a good hire when we brought him on, I was really excited about it. I was interested in a new start and getting past the hazing scandal. For the first part of his tenure I really did see some improvements, and I felt like we were going in the right direction. I was ready to give Sneddon a long leash. It seemed like that paid off in 2009 with another Frozen Four trip. But with the benefit of hindsight and a 2003-present body of work to reflect on, I'm sad to say that my patience has worn thin. The 2009 trip to the frozen four seems like we lucked out, an at large birth and a weak regional where the top two seeds lost. And Sneddon's career winning percentage is now effectively tied with Bill Ruffner for the worst all time in school history. Bill coached two years. Coach Sneddon has a 12 year track record now. I get that we are in a tough league now and all that. Still, think about that. Worst winning percentage in school history....over TWELVE years.

I have a lot of respect for Coach Sneddon, I really do. I'm not here to bash him. My point is simple...I think we know enough to know that he's not the guy to pick us up to the next level. And that's ok. He might be perfect for another school as he's clearly a good hockey coach. But he's not the guy that's going to get us, Vermont, to be competitive in Hockey East on a regular basis.

To pre-emptively answer, yes I do understand how hard it is to be competitive in Hockey East. But we are talking about the University of Vermont, a state university here in the great USA. It is time we acted like we have some expectations to be successful. Why is it that we don't expect success like other schools do? Why do our coaches seem to always stay until they choose to leave? Do we ever fire coaches? We do not have football, a decision I fully agree with. We have dropped baseball, which was likely the right financial decision but was troubling to me. We are, in my view, acceptably competitive in soccer (and hopefully on the rise in lacrosse). But the two remaining "big four" sports are basketball and hockey. I can understand the high hurdles to national prominence in basketball and overall I'm pretty happy with our performance there. But hockey is the one place where I think we could, and should, truly excel on the national level. Yet we do not. As a contributing alum, I in fact do expect more from our hockey program and think it is time for a change of leadership.

Finally, to pile on the numerous other posts on this topic, it escapes me why we are not already building a new multi use facility. I think it would quickly pay off in increased alumni interaction, more applications, more donations, etc. It is a proven model, athletic success benefiting schools greatly. It would most benefit both hockey and basketball, the two sports where we can hope to have some success (I define success in basketball as making the NCAA tourney 3-5X per decade and winning a first round NCAA game once in a very great while. In Hockey East I think we should be making the Garden and NCAA tourney 5X per decade and winning HE and making a frozen four 1X per decade.) To me, this does not seem impossible with a new facility and new leadership. I'm ready for the change and hope to see it happen. However, I am worried that as a community UVM doesn't have the gumption to aim for such an improvement. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Cats.
Click to expand...

I graduated around that time as well.....maybe a few years earlier. I agree 100% with your summation here!!!
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

OOC Schedule is starting to come together...

So far 1 against Michigan, 2 against Union, and 1 against either QU or SLU. And of course the annual Dartmount game. Looks like decent but not as overwhelming as the opening 5 last season.
 
Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

boblav1 said:
Article on UVM recruit Ross Colton. Colton finished second in the USHL in scoring with 66 points (35-31-66).

Interesting comment from the article:



From Twitter, sounds like some possible bad news for the Catamounts.

Scott Herbst ‏@herbst20
@cthockey1314 Ross wants out of his LOI. Vermont said no. He has appealed to the NCAA
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/herbst20/status/720944356237058048

this what I am talking about from this thread earlier but if UVM tweeting congrats to issue perhaps he shows
 
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