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Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
- Thread starter PrezdeJohnson09
- Start date
LakerEagleLover
Well-known member
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Reporter Pat Bailey playing catch up with USCHO....
AD sounds a few credits short of an Associate's degree - so he will fit right in.....
Utica College hockey looking to switch conferences
By PAT BAILEY
Story Created: Dec 7, 2010 at 4:32 PM EST
Story Updated: Dec 7, 2010 at 6:18 PM EST
UTICA, N.Y. (WKTV) - Utica College has recently applied to switch to another Division III hockey conference in order to be more competitive.
Utica College Athletic Director Jim Spartano says the college has recently applied to join the nine-team SUNYAC Conference. That conference recently changed its rules to allow non-SUNY schools in, Spartano said.
Utica College currently plays in the West division of the ECAC Conference. The Pioneers division has just five teams.
Spartano says representatives from all 23 schools of the ECAC Conference met earlier this summer to discuss re-aligning and balancing out their three divisions. However, Spartano said not many were willing to do so.
The SUNYAC conference will notify Utica College Wednesday if their application has been approved. If it has, the college will still need to put a presentation together for the conference.
If Utica College is accepted, the decision of whether or not they join the SUNYAC is up to President Todd Hutton.
"I would make a strong recommendation to move in that direction," Spartano said.
The SUNYAC conference is a regular Division III powerhouse. In the past ten years, four teams have made it to the Division III national title game, and two have won it.
The most recent was Oswego State in 2007.
"I just said 'wow, there are nine schools and we play the SUNYAC schools year in and year out anyway,'" said Spartano about the opportunity. "To me, it was like a no-brainer."
Spartano believes the move benefits all involved. It puts Utica College in a more competitive conference and allows for other schools to come to a "hockey town" that supports their local program.
"It would be a great experience for the hockey players to play in front of 3,000 people," said Spartano. "They are not used to that. Back home they don't play with that kind of crowd at all."
So...the AD doesn't think much of the SUNYAC towns...Discuss....
Reporter Pat Bailey playing catch up with USCHO....
AD sounds a few credits short of an Associate's degree - so he will fit right in.....
Utica College hockey looking to switch conferences
By PAT BAILEY
Story Created: Dec 7, 2010 at 4:32 PM EST
Story Updated: Dec 7, 2010 at 6:18 PM EST
UTICA, N.Y. (WKTV) - Utica College has recently applied to switch to another Division III hockey conference in order to be more competitive.
Utica College Athletic Director Jim Spartano says the college has recently applied to join the nine-team SUNYAC Conference. That conference recently changed its rules to allow non-SUNY schools in, Spartano said.
Utica College currently plays in the West division of the ECAC Conference. The Pioneers division has just five teams.
Spartano says representatives from all 23 schools of the ECAC Conference met earlier this summer to discuss re-aligning and balancing out their three divisions. However, Spartano said not many were willing to do so.
The SUNYAC conference will notify Utica College Wednesday if their application has been approved. If it has, the college will still need to put a presentation together for the conference.
If Utica College is accepted, the decision of whether or not they join the SUNYAC is up to President Todd Hutton.
"I would make a strong recommendation to move in that direction," Spartano said.
The SUNYAC conference is a regular Division III powerhouse. In the past ten years, four teams have made it to the Division III national title game, and two have won it.
The most recent was Oswego State in 2007.
"I just said 'wow, there are nine schools and we play the SUNYAC schools year in and year out anyway,'" said Spartano about the opportunity. "To me, it was like a no-brainer."
Spartano believes the move benefits all involved. It puts Utica College in a more competitive conference and allows for other schools to come to a "hockey town" that supports their local program.
"It would be a great experience for the hockey players to play in front of 3,000 people," said Spartano. "They are not used to that. Back home they don't play with that kind of crowd at all."
So...the AD doesn't think much of the SUNYAC towns...Discuss....
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Well, I'm glad he thinks the SUNYAC is a more competitive conference, being that in the last decade, Elmira has 5, Hobart and Manhattanville have 4 NCAA tournament appearances, and Neumann's appearance took the title - all WITHOUT an autobid. The SUNYAC is very competitive, but not significantly more so than the ECAC-West, now if he meant more stable, or to seek the potential for an autobid; or a conference in which THEY can be more competitive as they face the SUNYAC bottom feeders - then I absolutely agree – otherwise – say what???
As for the crowds, true, 3000 is high - and probable, but to say "Back home they don't play with that kind of crowd at all" would be semantically correct at best, as many schools (not all) offer sufficient home crowd support.
Reporter Pat Bailey playing catch up with USCHO....
AD sounds a few credits short of an Associate's degree - so he will fit right in.....
Utica College hockey looking to switch conferences
By PAT BAILEY
...
The SUNYAC conference is a regular Division III powerhouse. In the past ten years, four teams have made it to the Division III national title game, and two have won it.
The most recent was Oswego State in 2007.
"I just said 'wow, there are nine schools and we play the SUNYAC schools year in and year out anyway,'" said Spartano about the opportunity. "To me, it was like a no-brainer."
Spartano believes the move benefits all involved. It puts Utica College in a more competitive conference and allows for other schools to come to a "hockey town" that supports their local program.
"It would be a great experience for the hockey players to play in front of 3,000 people," said Spartano. "They are not used to that. Back home they don't play with that kind of crowd at all."
So...the AD doesn't think much of the SUNYAC towns...Discuss....
Well, I'm glad he thinks the SUNYAC is a more competitive conference, being that in the last decade, Elmira has 5, Hobart and Manhattanville have 4 NCAA tournament appearances, and Neumann's appearance took the title - all WITHOUT an autobid. The SUNYAC is very competitive, but not significantly more so than the ECAC-West, now if he meant more stable, or to seek the potential for an autobid; or a conference in which THEY can be more competitive as they face the SUNYAC bottom feeders - then I absolutely agree – otherwise – say what???
As for the crowds, true, 3000 is high - and probable, but to say "Back home they don't play with that kind of crowd at all" would be semantically correct at best, as many schools (not all) offer sufficient home crowd support.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I'm with CARDS, though; I know the rule's up for consideration but I never saw anything definitive on it being passed. And I've not seen anything about RIT's application being Title IX-based, although I agree with you that they would have a strong case if that's the way they go.
Powers &8^]
I'm with CARDS, though; I know the rule's up for consideration but I never saw anything definitive on it being passed. And I've not seen anything about RIT's application being Title IX-based, although I agree with you that they would have a strong case if that's the way they go.
Powers &8^]
Pioneers#1
Just call me Pio#1....
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
any word yet if Utica got accepted into the SUNYAC? If not, anyone have the slightest clue when they'll announce it?
any word yet if Utica got accepted into the SUNYAC? If not, anyone have the slightest clue when they'll announce it?
93GreatLaker
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
My Junior B team (Jr. Flyers, we were all high school kids, unlike today's Jr teams who are often older) in 1988 had to play the Scranton JV and Varsity teams back to back. Two 30 minute games.
We beat the JV squad 3-0 as the varsity guys sat up in the stands and laughed. We then proceeded to beat the Varsity 4-1.
Their coach thought it was a fluke and the only reason we won was because we had a bunch of games under our belt. After all it was early in the season for them so he scheduled us again, at their rink late in the season. We beat them 9-0.
I got to play them again with Oswego, we beat them 21-0. And yes, we had no class!
My Junior B team (Jr. Flyers, we were all high school kids, unlike today's Jr teams who are often older) in 1988 had to play the Scranton JV and Varsity teams back to back. Two 30 minute games.
We beat the JV squad 3-0 as the varsity guys sat up in the stands and laughed. We then proceeded to beat the Varsity 4-1.
Their coach thought it was a fluke and the only reason we won was because we had a bunch of games under our belt. After all it was early in the season for them so he scheduled us again, at their rink late in the season. We beat them 9-0.
I got to play them again with Oswego, we beat them 21-0. And yes, we had no class!
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I like the idea of having 2 SUNYAC divisions.
NORTH: Plattsburgh
Potsdam
Oswego
Cortland
Morrisville
Utica
Manhattanville
SOUTH: Elmira
Hobart
Neumann
Geneseo
Brockport
Buff st
Fredoina
Play the teams in your division twice and other division once for 19 conference games. Then Platty and Potsdam only have to make that western NY trip once per year. The western NY teams only go to the North Country every other year. To me its a win-win situation. Each division has 7 teams, therefore 2 AQ's. Each division would have its own playoff tournament. This just makes sense, which means it probably won't happen.
I like the idea of having 2 SUNYAC divisions.
NORTH: Plattsburgh
Potsdam
Oswego
Cortland
Morrisville
Utica
Manhattanville
SOUTH: Elmira
Hobart
Neumann
Geneseo
Brockport
Buff st
Fredoina
Play the teams in your division twice and other division once for 19 conference games. Then Platty and Potsdam only have to make that western NY trip once per year. The western NY teams only go to the North Country every other year. To me its a win-win situation. Each division has 7 teams, therefore 2 AQ's. Each division would have its own playoff tournament. This just makes sense, which means it probably won't happen.
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
But that's only if they want two AQs, correct?
But that's only if they want two AQs, correct?
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
If they would do with 1 AQ it would be fine. They could structure the playoffs to have a champion from each division and have them play for the AQ. The only thing that I don't see is that there would be much motivation for the SUNYAC to go along with this.
If they would do with 1 AQ it would be fine. They could structure the playoffs to have a champion from each division and have them play for the AQ. The only thing that I don't see is that there would be much motivation for the SUNYAC to go along with this.
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I was thinking the same thing, but the only saving grace is that the SOS would be killer for Pool C's because teams like Neumann, Elmira, Hobart, and Utica play good OOC schedules now (much like Plattsburgh, Potsdam, Geneseo, and to a lesser extent, Oswego). Still though, I can't see how the SUNYAC coaches would like to absorb the ECAC West teams (sans Utica). As was stated earlier, all the mid to lower level teams in the SUNYAC won't want to see these solid programs come in a have to compete with them and Oswego/Plattsburgh for one bid. If the same playoff format were kept, even with two division, I'd say 90% of the scenarios the playoff final would include two of Oswego, Plattsburgh, Manhattanville, Elmira, Hobart, Neumann, Geneseo. That doesn't leave much room for the rest.
I was thinking the same thing, but the only saving grace is that the SOS would be killer for Pool C's because teams like Neumann, Elmira, Hobart, and Utica play good OOC schedules now (much like Plattsburgh, Potsdam, Geneseo, and to a lesser extent, Oswego). Still though, I can't see how the SUNYAC coaches would like to absorb the ECAC West teams (sans Utica). As was stated earlier, all the mid to lower level teams in the SUNYAC won't want to see these solid programs come in a have to compete with them and Oswego/Plattsburgh for one bid. If the same playoff format were kept, even with two division, I'd say 90% of the scenarios the playoff final would include two of Oswego, Plattsburgh, Manhattanville, Elmira, Hobart, Neumann, Geneseo. That doesn't leave much room for the rest.
93GreatLaker
Registered User
Not that it matters but, I am curious as to what makes Potsdam and Geneseo's schedules more difficult than Oswego's? Oz and Potsdam practically have the same exact schedule except you swap Neumann and Manhattanville for Elmira and Utica. Genny, while they did have the rough trip out west they also have Franklin Pierce (twice) and Western New England on the schedule. The only thing that makes the Potsdam and Geneseo schedules more difficult is they have to play Oswego twice.
In regards to Platty, with that I would agree as year in and year out the Middlebury and Norwich games are as tough as they come.
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Well, I should have been more detailed in saying that Oswego does play the same teams, but they should beat those teams 9 out of 10 times. I'm implying that teams like Geneseo and Potsdam play teams that are very close in terms of level of play and skill. They do travel to play some of those teams, whereas Oswego brings teams in for the Pathfinder. Basically, I'm giving Plattsburgh credit for play Norwich and Middlebury every year, and Geneseo/Potsdam for scheduling "difficult" games.
Well, I should have been more detailed in saying that Oswego does play the same teams, but they should beat those teams 9 out of 10 times. I'm implying that teams like Geneseo and Potsdam play teams that are very close in terms of level of play and skill. They do travel to play some of those teams, whereas Oswego brings teams in for the Pathfinder. Basically, I'm giving Plattsburgh credit for play Norwich and Middlebury every year, and Geneseo/Potsdam for scheduling "difficult" games.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Nah, that doesn't make any sense. Playing against the same teams is playing against the same teams. Your preconceived notions of who should be the stronger team going into a season is irrelevant.
Nah, that doesn't make any sense. Playing against the same teams is playing against the same teams. Your preconceived notions of who should be the stronger team going into a season is irrelevant.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Every new NCAA member has four years of probation to prove they are capable of following the NCAA bylaws for Division III.
After three years, the school is allowed to petition to the NCAA to waive the last year if they can prove they did a bang up job in just three years.
Morrisville filed this petition during the SUMMER before their fourth year, and it was granted AT THAT TIME. It just that nobody knew about it. Morrisville knew all along, but some folks in the SUNYAC didn't get the memo.
The approval of the petition has NOTHING to do with Geneseo or Buffalo State's problems last year. The NCAA does not give a crap what problems are occuring in your league in one sport when deciding to approve the petition. All they care about is whether the school that petitions has behaved properly in the first three years and has shown they are capable of following the bylaws of the NCAA.
Morrisville was allowed in the SUNYAC as a provisional member, and because they were not eligible to compete in the NCAA tournament, they were not eligible to compete in the SUNYAC tournament in any sport for fear they would win the AQ and then not be able to lose it. (And no, you cannot give it to the second place team in that situation.)
This approval of allowing just the two teams to stay in the SUNYAC came LONG before the Geneseo, Buffalo State situation. In fact, last year the other Morrisville teams already were competing in the NEAC. And the ice hockey and field hockey teams were already competing in the SUNYAC as associate members.
When Morrisville pulled out of the SUNYAC, they wanted to keep hockey in (they did explore the ECAC West) since that sport had nowhere to go and field hockey for the same reason. The SUNYAC was more than happy to keep field hockey, because Morrisville was the seventh team and thus they needed them to keep their AQ. The fellow hockey coaches were willing to keep Morrisville for the good of the sport.
I see no reason why Canton cannot be allowed in as a provisional member of the SUNYAC either as a whole or just for one or two sports if they choose and SUNYAC accepts them. It's just that they cannot compete in any tournaments until they are NCAA eligible. Yes, it may take them a long time to become official members, but they can be "unofficial" members. I'm sure the SUNYAC would take their dues...
SUNYIT was in a very similar situation, joining SUNYAC before they were eligible NCAA members, and then pulling out to join NEAC. However, SUNYIT did not seek to keep any sports in the SUNYAC.
Every new NCAA member has four years of probation to prove they are capable of following the NCAA bylaws for Division III.
After three years, the school is allowed to petition to the NCAA to waive the last year if they can prove they did a bang up job in just three years.
Morrisville filed this petition during the SUMMER before their fourth year, and it was granted AT THAT TIME. It just that nobody knew about it. Morrisville knew all along, but some folks in the SUNYAC didn't get the memo.
The approval of the petition has NOTHING to do with Geneseo or Buffalo State's problems last year. The NCAA does not give a crap what problems are occuring in your league in one sport when deciding to approve the petition. All they care about is whether the school that petitions has behaved properly in the first three years and has shown they are capable of following the bylaws of the NCAA.
Morrisville was allowed in the SUNYAC as a provisional member, and because they were not eligible to compete in the NCAA tournament, they were not eligible to compete in the SUNYAC tournament in any sport for fear they would win the AQ and then not be able to lose it. (And no, you cannot give it to the second place team in that situation.)
This approval of allowing just the two teams to stay in the SUNYAC came LONG before the Geneseo, Buffalo State situation. In fact, last year the other Morrisville teams already were competing in the NEAC. And the ice hockey and field hockey teams were already competing in the SUNYAC as associate members.
When Morrisville pulled out of the SUNYAC, they wanted to keep hockey in (they did explore the ECAC West) since that sport had nowhere to go and field hockey for the same reason. The SUNYAC was more than happy to keep field hockey, because Morrisville was the seventh team and thus they needed them to keep their AQ. The fellow hockey coaches were willing to keep Morrisville for the good of the sport.
I see no reason why Canton cannot be allowed in as a provisional member of the SUNYAC either as a whole or just for one or two sports if they choose and SUNYAC accepts them. It's just that they cannot compete in any tournaments until they are NCAA eligible. Yes, it may take them a long time to become official members, but they can be "unofficial" members. I'm sure the SUNYAC would take their dues...
SUNYIT was in a very similar situation, joining SUNYAC before they were eligible NCAA members, and then pulling out to join NEAC. However, SUNYIT did not seek to keep any sports in the SUNYAC.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I'm almost positive you are still an "active" member of the NCAA even when you are on probation. You are just not eligible for the NCAA playoffs. It might all come down to semantics.
That's how Morrisville and SUNYIT joined the SUNYAC even when they were still on probation. Remember, the first year Morrisville joined the SUNYAC, they didn't even play a full SUNYAC schedule. Same with SUNYIT the first year they joined in their respective sports.
The SUNYAC may want to have schools wait a little bit longer to make sure they are not going to pull out, but I don't read that they way you do -- having to wait 6 years.
The problem is Canton may not even get to apply to the NCAA for a few more years. So, it could be six years starting from now, but not because the SUNYAC is making them wait six years.
I'm almost positive you are still an "active" member of the NCAA even when you are on probation. You are just not eligible for the NCAA playoffs. It might all come down to semantics.
That's how Morrisville and SUNYIT joined the SUNYAC even when they were still on probation. Remember, the first year Morrisville joined the SUNYAC, they didn't even play a full SUNYAC schedule. Same with SUNYIT the first year they joined in their respective sports.
The SUNYAC may want to have schools wait a little bit longer to make sure they are not going to pull out, but I don't read that they way you do -- having to wait 6 years.
The problem is Canton may not even get to apply to the NCAA for a few more years. So, it could be six years starting from now, but not because the SUNYAC is making them wait six years.
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Or they might already have... (applied)
Quote from page 12 of 16.
Or they might already have... (applied)
Quote from page 12 of 16.
93GreatLaker
Registered User
What he said.
The Real Georgia Peach
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
All you people with a myopic vision of the Sunyac picking up the ECAC-W teams need to recognize, NEUMANN IS IN PENNSYLVANIA!!! They'll NEVER be a SUNYAC team.....Being an Independent may not be that bad a deal, providing they get to schedule a few Sunyac, ECAC-E & ECAC-NE teams, plus a few games with the former ECAC-W teams. Envision Hobart, EC, Elmira and Neumann playing each other 2-4 times and a few games in the other Conferences and they would have a good chance of picking up one or more of the Pool C bids. Probably better odds than the former Pool B odds.
All you people with a myopic vision of the Sunyac picking up the ECAC-W teams need to recognize, NEUMANN IS IN PENNSYLVANIA!!! They'll NEVER be a SUNYAC team.....Being an Independent may not be that bad a deal, providing they get to schedule a few Sunyac, ECAC-E & ECAC-NE teams, plus a few games with the former ECAC-W teams. Envision Hobart, EC, Elmira and Neumann playing each other 2-4 times and a few games in the other Conferences and they would have a good chance of picking up one or more of the Pool C bids. Probably better odds than the former Pool B odds.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Well, since the SUNYAC bylaws no longer say anything about being in the state of New York, there's always the possibility that a deal could be worked to fit Neumann in. I'll agree that it's doubtful, but it's not 100% impossible. Unfortunately, it certainly looks at this point like they may be on their way to following in UAH's footsteps, in having their conference disband and no other conference willing to accept them. It's going to be tough for both of those schools, that's for sure. we shall see how it all turns out.
EDIT: and I just thought of another issue here... If we ever really DID see a merger between the ECAC-W and the SUNYAC, who would run the Pick'Em? Jabber or badger?
Well, since the SUNYAC bylaws no longer say anything about being in the state of New York, there's always the possibility that a deal could be worked to fit Neumann in. I'll agree that it's doubtful, but it's not 100% impossible. Unfortunately, it certainly looks at this point like they may be on their way to following in UAH's footsteps, in having their conference disband and no other conference willing to accept them. It's going to be tough for both of those schools, that's for sure. we shall see how it all turns out.
EDIT: and I just thought of another issue here... If we ever really DID see a merger between the ECAC-W and the SUNYAC, who would run the Pick'Em? Jabber or badger?
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