Utica College: The gang's all here.

[Russell Jaslow]

It specifically says they wouldn't move their entire department up to D2 unless the hockey team was accepted to the AHA. Otherwise they would stay put .

Good catch. Because the stories I heard at Lake Placid are Utica was waiting for AHA's decision before announcing anything.

 

[JSicedog]

Good catch. Because the stories I heard at Lake Placid are Utica was waiting for AHA's decision before announcing anything.

That is what I have been hearing also. Hence why the AD and Heenan have declined comment/stayed quiet. I am sure Utica wanted to ensure they would be able to make the move up to D2 before they attempted anything with the AHA. A lot of moving parts.

 

[Fishman'81]

https://romesentinel.com/stories/whats-next-for-utica-university-hockey,131666

Thanks for the link.

Sounds like a done deal, but I still think it's a bad idea.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Getting off topic, but the general rumor (as I understand it, literally none of this is in any sort of legitimate report, and only some of it has been mentioned by reporters on USCHO or CHN podcasts) is that the westernmost AHA schools might be interested in a breakaway conference. Maybe providing UAH with a home, maybe not.

There are a lot of moving pieces behind the scenes. I have talked to several individuals around the league and in other conferences who have different ideas they favor about realignment including regional splits, separation along academic lines, two divisions within a 14-team AHA, the addition of a "NEMHA" like the NEWHA, and even realignment of the eastern leagues because there are enough teams for one or two more automatic qualifiers. There are those in college hockey also suggesting some western realignment is imminent, especially with the addition of Augustana and Lindenwood.

This part is my opinion: Utica has a tradition and fan base in place similar to RIT's move 17 years ago that would help make it succeed at D-I. It could be a competitive team within a short period of time.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

It certainly follows that AHA has several differing thoughts amongst themselves, if only because the conference itself is sort of a hodgepodge of different schools (service academies, NE-10 schools, NEC schools, large schools, small schools, etc). Some schools have existing relationships and affiliations with LIU and the NE-10, others don’t.

But keeping it on Utica, I think you’re right on with the RIT comparison. It’s a smaller school, of course, but when they’re putting more fans in seats than anyone in AHA (or, for last season at least, the ECAC) that’s going to help with recruiting I imagine.

 

[bakdraft21]

It certainly follows that AHA has several differing thoughts amongst themselves, if only because the conference itself is sort of a hodgepodge of different schools (service academies, NE-10 schools, NEC schools, large schools, small schools, etc). Some schools have existing relationships and affiliations with LIU and the NE-10, others don’t.

But keeping it on Utica, I think you’re right on with the RIT comparison. It’s a smaller school, of course, but when they’re putting more fans in seats than anyone in AHA (or, for last season at least, the ECAC) that’s going to help with recruiting I imagine.

Butts in the seats and a nice area will help with any teams recruiting for sure!!

 

[Fishman'81]

There are a lot of moving pieces behind the scenes. I have talked to several individuals around the league and in other conferences who have different ideas they favor about realignment including regional splits, separation along academic lines, two divisions within a 14-team AHA, the addition of a "NEMHA" like the NEWHA, and even realignment of the eastern leagues because there are enough teams for one or two more automatic qualifiers. There are those in college hockey also suggesting some western realignment is imminent, especially with the addition of Augustana and Lindenwood.

This part is my opinion: Utica has a tradition and fan base in place similar to RIT's move 17 years ago that would help make it succeed at D-I. It could be a competitive team within a short period of time.

Maybe.

Or maybe Utica might just turn into another RIT, a school that bit-off more that it could chew.

I'm guessing the latter, and what historical evidence that exists supports my guess.

 

[Fishman'81]

Butts in the seats and a nice area will help with any teams recruiting for sure!!

Attendance will drop along with the W%. That never fails to happen, anywhere.

I honestly don't know what the UU brass is thinking.

This insane move would be just as disastrous as SNC joining the NCHA: to wit, instant irrelevance.

 

[Fishman'81]

And then aren't eligible for the D3 tournament. I would laugh till I die.

But on a more serious note, let's talk about the NE-10 conference. The women's equivalent of that conference is the NEWHA which has Sacred Heart, St. Anselm's, St. Michael's, Franklin Pierce, Post, and LIU. So four of those teams are in the NE-10 on the men's side.

The NEWHA is moving up as a conference into D1 and will be getting an AQ in the D1 tournament very shortly. So, the precedence is there for many of those schools to consider doing the same with the NE-10. Especially if Atlantic Hockey turns down Utica, and they have to go to the NE-10. That could make five schools willing to consider moving the whole conference up to D1.

Now, let's talk AHA. Right now, they have 10 teams. RMU is most likely going to be allowed back in. They would rather not have an odd number. But, I do know that there are still strong rumors that Navy will eventually start a program, and they would only do so if they join the same conference as the other academies (plus those other academies want Navy to be in their conference). So, does AHA hold a spot open for Navy and not let Utica in? Or, do they look towards making the conference 14 members, and allow RMU, Utica, LIU, and hold a sport for Navy? And does a conference even want to be as large as 14 members, and instead there is a split and reshuffling of conferences ... yet again?

There is a possibility based on the above that Utica has either found themselves with perfect timing or in no-man's land with finding a place to play.

The AHA isn't where ANY D-1 program wants to land. It just takes up space. Nobody gives a shit about the AHA (check the attendance figures), and none of its teams are legit contenders 99% of the time.

It would make a Hell of a lot more sense to move the AHA down to D-3 than to move any D-3 team "up" to the AHA. (And, of course, the NE-10 is absolutely hockey- irrelevant six ways from Tuesday, agreed, but are you saying that it can find a way to finagle an AQ? What nonsense.)

So, back to my point, does UU think that North Dakota, Minnesota, BC and Michigan will suddenly schedule Utica, come to The Aud, and that good seats will suddenly go for $75? Not happening.

This whole idea is seriously stupid... (I suppose I've said that already, but it's seriously stupid, JSYK.)

 

[Sir Nubs]

Attendance will drop along with the W%. That never fails to happen, anywhere.

I honestly don't know what the UU brass is thinking.

This insane move would be just as disastrous as SNC joining the NCHA: to wit, instant irrelevance.

St. Norbert has been in the NCHA since 1994. Go pour yourself another highball.

 

[spwood]

This whole idea is seriously stupid... (I suppose I've said that already, but it's seriously stupid, JSYK.)

The only way this makes sense to me is if they have a sincere desire to move all of their other sports to Div II. That puts the hockey team in a bad place, but may make sense for the rest of the athletic department. If this is about the hockey team driving the bus, I agree that the idea seems, on face, to not be a good move.

 

[Fishman'81]

This part is my opinion: Utica has a tradition and fan base in place similar to RIT's move 17 years ago that would help make it succeed at D-I. It could be a competitive team within a short period of time.

Utica won't succeed at the D-1 level anytime soon, if ever.

This whole deal is a very bad idea.

 

[JSicedog]

Utica won't succeed at the D-1 level anytime soon, if ever.

This whole deal is a very bad idea.

Fish and his crystal ball.

I know I am repeating myself but there is no reason to suggest this. You need to realize it is an entire new group of players. For some reason you think that it is this years Utica team jumping up to the D1 level.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I haven’t interacted with him much on this forum, but I also can’t really say I’ve ever looked at one of his posts and thought “I should take this guy seriously”.

Which is my passive aggressive way of saying he’s a blowhard, just take everything he posts with The Worlds Largest Grain Of Salt.

 

[Puckstopper467]

I do not know why a school like Utica cannot be able to compete and do well enough at the D1 level. I mean LIU in their first year did fine. The team will draw 3,000 + fans and that alone will help attract D1 caliber players. Look at all the teams in the Atlantic, majority do not draw too many, and they compete. Utica is a good school in a nice area, and will give D1 caliber another venue to continue their journeys. Remember all schools only get 18 scholarships, so you can get some top talent with the full ride offers. Not saying Utica will be a powerhouse, however after a few seasons they can and will play a schedule that will be real good hockey to watch

 

[HawksHockey]

The only way this makes sense to me is if they have a sincere desire to move all of their other sports to Div II. That puts the hockey team in a bad place, but may make sense for the rest of the athletic department. If this is about the hockey team driving the bus, I agree that the idea seems, on face, to not be a good move.

Everyone should check out what happened when Saint Anselm announced it was exploring NCAA Division III (there are articles and websites galore that debate the topic). The schools competed primarily in NCAA Division II with both hockey programs playing in the ECAC East as "members" who weren't eligible for postseason and it was quite the situation.

The Hawks ended up staying as a full member of NCAA Division II, at the end of the day, and did not make the move for what apparently was a variety of reasons.

 

[Mr.Right]

Everyone should check out what happened when Saint Anselm announced it was exploring NCAA Division III (there are articles and websites galore that debate the topic). The schools competed primarily in NCAA Division II with both hockey programs playing in the ECAC East as "members" who weren't eligible for postseason and it was quite the situation.

The Hawks ended up staying as a full member of NCAA Division II, at the end of the day, and did not make the move for what apparently was a variety of reasons.

Because St.A's made all these plans, got everything ready with tons of work behind the scenes before they were accepted into the Newmac for the rest of their sports. Newmac does not have Hockey so no idea where they were going for that.. They assumed it was a done deal. They learned the hard way to never assume anything. Newmac said St.A's did not fit the academic mission of its schools.. Babson, MIT, Springfield, WPI, Coast Guard, Clark and Wheaton plus Smith on the women's side. IMO D2 is like the NAIA now basically a dead end. Utica moving D2 for the rest of sports is a real bad idea. I think the D1 Hockey though is exciting because of the fan base Utica has. If Utica loses the fan base because they start losing heavy in D1 and the rest of the Sports are in a dead end D2 then the whole decision will have been a disaster.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Because St.A's made all these plans, got everything ready with tons of work behind the scenes before they were accepted into the Newmac for the rest of their sports. Newmac does not have Hockey so no idea where they were going for that.. They assumed it was a done deal. They learned the hard way to never assume anything. Newmac said St.A's did not fit the academic mission of its schools.. Babson, MIT, Springfield, WPI, Coast Guard, Clark and Wheaton plus Smith on the women's side. IMO D2 is like the NAIA now basically a dead end. Utica moving D2 for the rest of sports is a real bad idea. I think the D1 Hockey though is exciting because of the fan base Utica has. If Utica loses the fan base because they start losing heavy in D1 and the rest of the Sports are in a dead end D2 then the whole decision will have been a disaster.

I'm curious why you're saying Division II is dead? I don't think it's dead at all.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I'm curious why you're saying Division II is dead? I don't think it's dead at all.

Obviously hockey is a different scenario altogether, but I’m curious about this as well.

 

[Mr.Right]

Besides NE-10 and about 12 New York D2 schools the rest are in the South and West...Partial Scholarships, older students, Utica will have to lower admissions standards to compete on a national level, etc etc...Yes even I love a Lemoyne or a Post but D2 used to have a strong New England/ NY presence until most in New England went D3 to get away from all the stuff I mentioned above and to save money. Maybe it's my take because my roots are New England.