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Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

admiral0417 said:
I wonder how the 2008-09 Neumann team finished in the last poll?? When they were scuffling along at 12-9-2, I doubt they were even ranked. Then they reeled off 9 straight and beat everybody to win it all. Were they they best team in the country?? For the entire season, absolutely not. Plattsburgh finished 25-2-2 but were beaten by Neumann in the NCAA quarters. Does that make Neumann a better team for 2008-09?? Curious to hear some feedback on this. It could make the Utica-Norwich-Oswego argument for this year clearer for everybody. Is it the team that lasts the longest? Or the team that put the best body of work for the entire season?
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As much as I am a Card fan, on that Saturday night in March 09, Neumann was the better team. As they were to finish the season!!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Pioneers#1 said:
Oswego had an easier schedule, beat the easy teams they could walk all over & lost to the teams that had significance for the most part. So naturally.

Finishing the season going one game farther I really don't consider finishing "higher" or "ahead"
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The NCAA considers this as "higher" or "ahead", or they wouldn't waste the money on that hardware they handed to Oswego. For the programs with long winning histories, they are concerned with winning the last game, and their season is a great success. The regular season just puts them in a position to have an opportunity to win the last game.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Pioneers#1 said:
Oswego had an easier schedule, beat the easy teams they could walk all over & lost to the teams that had significance for the most part. So naturally.

Finishing the season going one game farther I really don't consider finishing "higher" or "ahead"
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Season's over...move on already...just wasting 0's and 1's at this point...
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

...And how does that differ from what you just did?

If you and Shabby don't want to squeeze-in a little more D-3 chat, feel free to cease and desist. You won't break anybody's heart. ;)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

admiral0417 said:
I wonder how the 2008-09 Neumann team finished in the last poll?? When they were scuffling along at 12-9-2, I doubt they were even ranked. Then they reeled off 9 straight and beat everybody to win it all. Were they they best team in the country?? For the entire season, absolutely not. Plattsburgh finished 25-2-2 but were beaten by Neumann in the NCAA quarters. Does that make Neumann a better team for 2008-09?? Curious to hear some feedback on this. It could make the Utica-Norwich-Oswego argument for this year clearer for everybody. Is it the team that lasts the longest? Or the team that put the best body of work for the entire season?
Click to expand...

Platty certainly appeared to have had the better season as a whole, but who can say that definitively, when they played a much different schedule than NC?

While I realize that it's not feasible to do so, the only way to crown a true champion is to have every team play each other in a round-robin season. Then, there'd be no need for a PS, aside from (occasionally) breaking ties.

The only reason all these "rankings" even exist is to attempt to predict how such a Utopian system would yield its results. It's a necessary evil to wade through that muck in order to select a NC tournament-field under the current conditions, but it's based largely upon speculation to do so, just the same.

I've never put much stock in PS tournaments, for the above reasons. (For example, is Wichita State conceivably among the four best teams in the nation, or did they just win a few games at the right time?)
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
Platty certainly appeared to have had the better season as a whole, but who can say that definitively, when they played a much different schedule than NC?

While I realize that it's not feasible to do so, the only way to crown a true champion is to have every team play each other in a round-robin season. Then, there'd be no need for a PS, aside from (occasionally) breaking ties.

The only reason all these "rankings" even exist is to attempt to predict how such a Utopian system would yield its results. It's a necessary evil to wade through that muck in order to select a NC tournament-field under the current conditions, but it's based largely upon speculation to do so, just the same.

I've never put much stock in PS tournaments, for the above reasons. (For example, is Wichita State conceivably among the four best teams in the nation, or did they just win a few games at the right time?)
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Well, I don't doubt you know how to wade through the muck, but the PS is there to prove the survival of the fittest, and IMO, they are #1.
 
Fishman'81 said:
While I realize that it's not feasible to do so, the only way to crown a true champion is to have every team play each other in a round-robin season. Then, there'd be no need for a PS, aside from (occasionally) breaking
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I've said it before, I'll say it again. I love socer, but this is a hockey forum. If you want to talk soccer, go to a soccer forum. That's not how hockey works on any level that I'm aware of.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I love socer, but this is a hockey forum. If you want to talk soccer, go to a soccer forum. That's not how hockey works on any level that I'm aware of.
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^^^This

Plus, while Utica wasn't able to play all the teams that made it to Lake Placid, they were given their opportunity to advance by playing the West's #3 seed. They proceeded to get their doors blown off...
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

altazo said:
^^^This

Plus, while Utica wasn't able to play all the teams that made it to Lake Placid, they were given their opportunity to advance by playing the West's #3 seed. They proceeded to get their doors blown off...
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Who said otherwise? Eu Claire won every national comparison. This discussion was about who had the better season in the East, until it was (predictably) hijacked.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
Who said otherwise? Eu Claire won every national comparison. This discussion was about who had the better season in the East, until it was (predictably) hijacked.
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You don't get it. It's only you who cares how Utica is regarded in retrospect in the East region. There are no awards for thinking you are the best in your region, then getting crushed in the tournament. There are no awards for beating Oswego in two NC games earlier in the season. There is only one final ranking in college hockey: #1. Either you are Champions or you are not. Debating between two teams who are not Champions as to which one is "better" is ridiculous and shows just how new to any sort of success you are.

Your posts on this website honestly have left me a little embarrassed for the people who are actually associated with the Utica program. Like, associated with the program in real-life, ya know? You think Heenan cares if the general public considers Oswego to be better than Utica right now?

Eagerly awaiting your midnight response and justification for this debate to continue (not really...)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

altazo said:
Either you are Champions or you are not.
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That's a point I have made repeatedly when the annual "x got screwed because they had to play y in the quarterfinals. X should have been seeded higher" cry goes out. It's not when you lose, it is if you lose. The tournament determines who is on top of the heap, that's all.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

NUProf said:
That's a point I have made repeatedly when the annual "x got screwed because they had to play y in the quarterfinals. X should have been seeded higher" cry goes out. It's not when you lose, it is if you lose. The tournament determines who is on top of the heap, that's all.
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As a statistician, you must know that it's not that simple.

The tournament often just decides who had the better weekend and whither the hardware goes, as a general rule... I'm sure that the same guys who uphold this year's results as Gospel were also apoplectic when Neumann came out of nowhere to win it all a few years back.

The NCAAs were a perfect storm in March, and I'm not complaining at all about how things ended-up at the top. It made sense that Eau Claire was ranked highest after Placid; I'm just attempting to place the Eastern teams, after the facts are in, and that weekend shed a little light on that.

And for the 1,000,000th time, I never once commented on how the West was ranked until it was all said and done... Not once, all season long.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

To altazo:

1. If you don't care about the topic, then why do you reply?

2. I don't claim any glory nor suffer any defeats on the shoulders of Utica's hockey team in a vicarious sense, but I infer from your remarks that OSU's success counts as your own? :rolleyes:

3. One kinda-sorta Utica guy took the time a few months back to inform me that I was embarrassing him by association, but I let that go... I'm guessing that he was in a fraternity, and still suffers from a lingering sense of herd-mentality as a result.

4. You guys that are still ragging vs. debating are the problem here. (Has anyone a cogent argument about how the East shook-out? If not, tee 'em up and give it a rest.)

I was away skiing for a couple of days, not ducking any of you, FCS... And if the weather cooperates, I'll squeeze-in two more days on the slopes. There are certainly better things to do in Life than to talk apples and oranges with chimpanzees; they can never make up their minds on a given day.


;)


XOXO.
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
As a statistician, you must know that it's not that simple.

The tournament often just decides who had the better weekend and whither the hardware goes, as a general rule... I'm sure that the same guys who uphold this year's results as Gospel were also apoplectic when Neumann came out of nowhere to win it all a few years back.
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That's the definition of the tournament. It is the way things are decided. We can work all we want to come up with metrics to determine who is the best/who had the best season (and for what it is worth, my {unpublished} rankings show that UWEC came out on top, with Utica second and Norwich third.), but in the end the NCAA has determined this is how you determine a National Champion. Anybody who loses in the tournament at any stage is not the National Champion, but they had a shot at it.
 
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