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Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

sshablak said:
I was just bored...but...I am tired of the Ozz posters comin on here and slamming UC.(Norm too :D). I have been on the Ozz sites wishing well, saying great game, good luck etc. Never a bad word unless provoked, not like our one famous fish. Sorry !
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Shabby, I haven't posted on the OSU thread all year.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh said:
I was referring to your early posts accusing us of putting too much significance on a meaningless end-of-season tournament (not your exact words, don't really feel like looking for the post right now... you're not very high on my priority list). I'm just saying that according to the goals the players set for themselves at the beginning of the year, there's only one "comparative data" that means anything. And in that "comparative data" UWEC comes out on top, and everybody else (including all of the eastern teams) ties for last place. Comparing Utica and Oswego is pointless... they both had good seasons, but they both failed in the task they set out for themselves.
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If I can't have it both ways, then neither should you.

There has been a lot of debate as to who has had the best body of work in the East, and that's the point I was addressing. No one game counts any more than another when you're looking at a year's worth of work... That's what I was discussing, now that all the data is in.

Nobody on this thread has said that W-EC wasn't the best team in Placid, OK? Eau Claire went through some of the best teams in the East, both on a H2H basis and by extension, and so did Utica, by the same yardstick. That's a fact, and it cuts both ways.

I don't consider Utica's season to be a "failure" by any means, and I expect UC to maintain their momentum, now that Heenan is free to recruit the OJHL... Platty and Oswego are going to face a little more competition for those coveted 21 YO *Freshman* in the years to come. ;)
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

I've only seen them play four times all year; two each v. Platty and Utica... I'd either have come-off as an ignoramus or a gloater if I were to weigh-in on the Oswego thread. (I'm OK with saying here that OSU's top line was about as talented a unit as I've seen in 12 years of D-3, though.)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
If I can't have it both ways, then neither should you.

There has been a lot of debate as to who has had the best body of work in the East, and that's the point I was addressing. No one game counts any more than another when you're looking at a year's worth of work... That's what I was discussing, now that all the data is in.

Nobody on this thread has said that W-EC wasn't the best team in Placid, OK? Eau Claire went through some of the best teams in the East, both on a H2H basis and by extension, and so did Utica, by the same yardstick. That's a fact, and it cuts both ways.

I don't consider Utica's season to be a "failure" by any means, and I expect UC to maintain their momentum, now that Heenan is free to recruit the OJHL... Platty and Oswego are going to face a little more competition for those coveted 21 YO *Freshman* in the years to come. ;)
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Fishman'81 said:
Oswego, see H2H (in reference to Utica/Oswego). Norwich, lost to Oswego.

There ya go.
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:rolleyes:
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Ozz said:
:rolleyes:
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Roll your eyes all you like, then explain to me why you think OSU/Norwich come out ahead of UC in the East... I'd be interested to read that.

When you factor-in SOS, H2H and common-opponent results, it looks like UC has the advantage, despite their lower winning %, IMO.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
Roll your eyes all you like, then explain to me why you think OSU/Norwich come out ahead of UC in the East... I'd be interested to read that.

When you factor-in SOS, H2H and common-opponent results, it looks like UC has the advantage, despite their lower winning %, IMO.
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When did I say I think OSW/NOR should be 'ahead' of Utica? I wasn't rolling my eyes at your 'rankings', I was rolling my eyes at how inconsistent you are with your arguments. I could care less about who ranks where on March 25th, whether or not I agree with your assessment. You are more than welcome to have an opinion, regardless of who agrees or disagrees with you, but at least be consistent.

In one breathe, you mention "No one game counts more than another when you're looking at a year's worth of work", and yet just two days before you were pointing out Utica's two wins against Oswego and Norwich's one lose to Oswego.

Just like in February you said...

Fishman'81 said:
Not sure how you concoct your numbers (never have been), but the nationally-respected KRACH has Neumann #3 SOS in the East, and that's an immeasureably more logical ranking than #13...
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and then in March said...

Fishman'81 said:
I've noticed, but I don't buy it. No metric is sacred.
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and...

Fishman'81 said:
I've found the KRACH metric to make more sense than D-3 PWC or the one on "the other site" for most of the year, but I'm not married to anything anymore...
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

My bad for indefinite references.

One thing I meant to communicate is that a game in October v. Team A carries no more or less weight than a game against them at the FF. There are guys on here who will argue that the PS is all that matters, but that clearly is not the case when evaluating a team's entire season... And that's what I was taking a stab at. You could add the FF results to the mix of data in any time-frame you care to, and the season would still be the season for every team involved.

And as far as any metric out there goes, I reserve the right to agree/disagree with it on any given week.

KRACH made more sense to me than any other popular measure for most of the season- as I stated in one of your quotes- but it finished poorly, IMO, yielding an illogical result. I'm not going to blindly endorse it, when it ceases to make sense... And "the other" D-3 ranking seemed to have taken to the links early.

FWIW, I do my own math with no statistical regression involved, and both UC and Hobart finished ahead of NU, OSU, Babson and Bowdoin there. That's clearly arguable stuff, but it's not rocket-science, for sure... After the last few games, there was at last a modicum of comparisons to process.
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Looking for UC recruits I see they have a commitment from Kenai in the BCHL, Mikhael something sky, sorry. Sounds Russian, but is Canadian I believe. But, they say he's the fastest player on their team which will only enhance the already speedy Pios.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Mickael Bushinski is playing for Keni of the NAHL. He is from Minnesota. He is a smart, fast player. He is a great kid, he will be an asset fo any team he goes to.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Fishman'81 said:
My bad for indefinite references.

One thing I meant to communicate is that a game in October v. Team A carries no more or less weight than a game against them at the FF. There are guys on here who will argue that the PS is all that matters, but that clearly is not the case when evaluating a team's entire season... And that's what I was taking a stab at. You could add the FF results to the mix of data in any time-frame you care to, and the season would still be the season for every team involved.

And as far as any metric out there goes, I reserve the right to agree/disagree with it on any given week.

KRACH made more sense to me than any other popular measure for most of the season- as I stated in one of your quotes- but it finished poorly, IMO, yielding an illogical result. I'm not going to blindly endorse it, when it ceases to make sense... And "the other" D-3 ranking seemed to have taken to the links early.

FWIW, I do my own math with no statistical regression involved, and both UC and Hobart finished ahead of NU, OSU, Babson and Bowdoin there. That's clearly arguable stuff, but it's not rocket-science, for sure... After the last few games, there was at last a modicum of comparisons to process.
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Bad case of Krach Rot.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

You could call it that, for sure.

There's no logical reason that UC should fall below OSU or NU after the FF results were in... None at all.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

sshablak said:
Looking for UC recruits I see they have a commitment from Kenai in the BCHL, Mikhael something sky, sorry. Sounds Russian, but is Canadian I believe. But, they say he's the fastest player on their team which will only enhance the already speedy Pios.
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Looks like the recruiting opportunities are/have been evening-up for Utica. I expect them to attract just as many 21 YO "Freshmen" from the Canadian juniors as do the other successful D-3 programs in the East in the foreseeable future.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

Pioneers#1 said:
Oswego had an easier schedule, beat the easy teams they could walk all over & lost to the teams that had significance for the most part. So naturally.

Finishing the season going one game farther I really don't consider finishing "higher" or "ahead"
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I don't think it gets any easier than Naz, Salve Regina and Nichols!!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)

I wonder how the 2008-09 Neumann team finished in the last poll?? When they were scuffling along at 12-9-2, I doubt they were even ranked. Then they reeled off 9 straight and beat everybody to win it all. Were they they best team in the country?? For the entire season, absolutely not. Plattsburgh finished 25-2-2 but were beaten by Neumann in the NCAA quarters. Does that make Neumann a better team for 2008-09?? Curious to hear some feedback on this. It could make the Utica-Norwich-Oswego argument for this year clearer for everybody. Is it the team that lasts the longest? Or the team that put the best body of work for the entire season?
 
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