Birdwatcher
Registered User
I just do not get why it won't work. Glens Falls is a much smaller town and is 45 miles from Albany which also has pro hockey and they make it. There are many more larger towns around Utica too.???
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Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
- Thread starter Fishman'81
- Start date
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
Shabby, there is no question whatsoever about the AHL being a great league that's full of talent. It's is a lot of fun to watch, until you realize that it doesn't count for anything. (Why root for players that want nothing more than to get out of town?)
I don't care if it lands here one way or the other, as long as it doesn't screw-up UC's schedule, but I'm pretty sure that it will. UC deserves a better fate than to be temporarily displaced by a rent-a-team.
Shabby, there is no question whatsoever about the AHL being a great league that's full of talent. It's is a lot of fun to watch, until you realize that it doesn't count for anything. (Why root for players that want nothing more than to get out of town?)
I don't care if it lands here one way or the other, as long as it doesn't screw-up UC's schedule, but I'm pretty sure that it will. UC deserves a better fate than to be temporarily displaced by a rent-a-team.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
You're right, GF is a much smaller town. Why the AHL survives there is a bit of a mystery to me.
Having said that, I'm guessing that GF serves a wider area than does Utica, and most of those people work for a living, and have more than 5 bucks in their pocket on a given night.
It's all about demographics... (Notice that OKC has the poorest attendance in the AHL, and it's about a gazillion times bigger than Utica, but nobody is working there, either.)
And if Utica gets an AHL team, it will challenge OKC for the lowest attendance, for sure... One and done, at best.
You're right, GF is a much smaller town. Why the AHL survives there is a bit of a mystery to me.
Having said that, I'm guessing that GF serves a wider area than does Utica, and most of those people work for a living, and have more than 5 bucks in their pocket on a given night.
It's all about demographics... (Notice that OKC has the poorest attendance in the AHL, and it's about a gazillion times bigger than Utica, but nobody is working there, either.)
And if Utica gets an AHL team, it will challenge OKC for the lowest attendance, for sure... One and done, at best.
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PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
That's kind of shocking OKC's attendance was so low since they had all Edmonton's young guns till the lockout ended with Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Hall and Schultz.
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
Glens Falls is a smaller town in close proximity to Saratoga & Clifton Park, as well as the folks who don't want to drive into downtown Albany after dark. Utica on the other hand is close to Rome, Herkimer, and Clinton. It's the biggest town in the area. Don't discount the fact that the economic climate in the Capital District is infinitely better than Central NY/Mohawk Valley.
I love living here in Utica and I love hockey, but it will be a real longshot for an AHL franchise to be here for more than a year. The AUD is owned by Oneida County not the city of Utica. While the city is struggling with its finances, the county is in somewhat better shape. They should even be doing better given the settling of the Oneida's land claim and the fact that they'll now get to share some of the revenue from the Turning Stone slot machines. I'd really not want to see any of that money spent on "guaranteed revenue" minimums for an AHL franchise. Better see them seed some of that money to SUNY-IT to start a program and put their games into the AUD along with UC.
The chances of an AHL franchise landing at the AUD without it costing the county (and the taxpayers) is slim at best. Even with the county supporting them It will likely be a short term proposition.
Just my opinion.....
Glens Falls is a smaller town in close proximity to Saratoga & Clifton Park, as well as the folks who don't want to drive into downtown Albany after dark. Utica on the other hand is close to Rome, Herkimer, and Clinton. It's the biggest town in the area. Don't discount the fact that the economic climate in the Capital District is infinitely better than Central NY/Mohawk Valley.
I love living here in Utica and I love hockey, but it will be a real longshot for an AHL franchise to be here for more than a year. The AUD is owned by Oneida County not the city of Utica. While the city is struggling with its finances, the county is in somewhat better shape. They should even be doing better given the settling of the Oneida's land claim and the fact that they'll now get to share some of the revenue from the Turning Stone slot machines. I'd really not want to see any of that money spent on "guaranteed revenue" minimums for an AHL franchise. Better see them seed some of that money to SUNY-IT to start a program and put their games into the AUD along with UC.
The chances of an AHL franchise landing at the AUD without it costing the county (and the taxpayers) is slim at best. Even with the county supporting them It will likely be a short term proposition.
Just my opinion.....
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
To the best of my understanding, the lease with the Aud had, has, and will always have, a provision that any professional team will get first scheduling rights. That is what concerns me the most (however, like XCTiger I worry about what kind of bag the good taxpayers of this area will end up holding when the pro team leaves). The Women's team likely be the most inconvenienced by this term.
While Elmira also had a professional team come to town quite a few years ago, at least scheduling was not an issue since they used different facilities.
We are certainly on the same page here, Mr. Fishman!
To the best of my understanding, the lease with the Aud had, has, and will always have, a provision that any professional team will get first scheduling rights. That is what concerns me the most (however, like XCTiger I worry about what kind of bag the good taxpayers of this area will end up holding when the pro team leaves). The Women's team likely be the most inconvenienced by this term.
While Elmira also had a professional team come to town quite a few years ago, at least scheduling was not an issue since they used different facilities.
Hockeyfan2113
New member
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
While I cannot answer why Philly moved the Phantoms to Glenn Falls after they demolished the spectrum. My best guess is that there was not many available spots that were relatively close and ready to go (Hershey/Harrsiburg has the Bears, no real arenas besides WFC in Philly, nothing in Jersey). They were supposed to move the team to Allentown this year but due to delays in building the new rink, they will begin playing there the following year (14-15).
It will be interesting what the draw will be for them compared to Wilkes Barre/Scranton. On one hand you have Flyers an hour and a half south so certainly Philly draws as well as Devils/Rags not being too far away and then also the established WB/S pens fanbase.
And now I am rambling, so in short, Glenn Falls is ending their time shortly and if a team moves to Utica, it certainly be interesting what they get and what happens to the pioneers.
While I cannot answer why Philly moved the Phantoms to Glenn Falls after they demolished the spectrum. My best guess is that there was not many available spots that were relatively close and ready to go (Hershey/Harrsiburg has the Bears, no real arenas besides WFC in Philly, nothing in Jersey). They were supposed to move the team to Allentown this year but due to delays in building the new rink, they will begin playing there the following year (14-15).
It will be interesting what the draw will be for them compared to Wilkes Barre/Scranton. On one hand you have Flyers an hour and a half south so certainly Philly draws as well as Devils/Rags not being too far away and then also the established WB/S pens fanbase.
And now I am rambling, so in short, Glenn Falls is ending their time shortly and if a team moves to Utica, it certainly be interesting what they get and what happens to the pioneers.
It is my understanding that UC sold all of the advertising in the arena. If that is true, then you can bet that revenue stream will end up going to the pro team along with concessions. I can't see how UC wouldn't be impacted in a major way across the board.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
That pretty-much sums it up. Adding another pro-hockey failure to that existing (and long) list is just an insane case of throwing good money after bad.
I make greater Utica my home, and I don't mean to hammer on its shortcomings just for sport... But a blind man could see that there is no possibility whatsoever of making a long-term go of it with an AHL franchise here. That's not even worth discussing seriously.
I've talked to several suits employed by The Aud, and while none of them seem to know any particulars, they all say that the venue doesn't make any real money from UC hockey. Assuming that they are right (I don't) I still say that County revenue can be padded a bit by a modest increase in the gate (say $1.50/ticket, that goes directly to the venue) or something similar.
I continue to doubt that Vancouver has any genuine interest in Utica; but even if they do, let's all remember who put the fannies in the seats these past 13 years, and work-out a realistic plan to move forward with UC as the primary tenant... That's the only team that worked here in recent history.
(Love to see SUNY-IT get on board, too, but that's another matter entirely.)
That pretty-much sums it up. Adding another pro-hockey failure to that existing (and long) list is just an insane case of throwing good money after bad.
I make greater Utica my home, and I don't mean to hammer on its shortcomings just for sport... But a blind man could see that there is no possibility whatsoever of making a long-term go of it with an AHL franchise here. That's not even worth discussing seriously.
I've talked to several suits employed by The Aud, and while none of them seem to know any particulars, they all say that the venue doesn't make any real money from UC hockey. Assuming that they are right (I don't) I still say that County revenue can be padded a bit by a modest increase in the gate (say $1.50/ticket, that goes directly to the venue) or something similar.
I continue to doubt that Vancouver has any genuine interest in Utica; but even if they do, let's all remember who put the fannies in the seats these past 13 years, and work-out a realistic plan to move forward with UC as the primary tenant... That's the only team that worked here in recent history.
(Love to see SUNY-IT get on board, too, but that's another matter entirely.)
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
Latest reports out of Vancouver are that AHL voted yes on placing Canucks in the AUD. Also reporting that it is a deal for one season, with Abbotsford being the ultimate destination. If nothing else, UC will get the benefit of $2M of AUD improvements.
If this is really the case, I sure hope our local givernment didn't put any cash incentives on the table for the Canucks.
Latest reports out of Vancouver are that AHL voted yes on placing Canucks in the AUD. Also reporting that it is a deal for one season, with Abbotsford being the ultimate destination. If nothing else, UC will get the benefit of $2M of AUD improvements.
If this is really the case, I sure hope our local givernment didn't put any cash incentives on the table for the Canucks.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
I read today that the grant was for 5 million, contingent on Utica landing an AHL team.
Talk about a short-sighted waste of public money, but in either case, The Aud gets a face-lift off the sweat of the taxpayers in exchange for the trouble of having an AHL team come and go in a year's time... I can see why the County has an interest in the deal, but it won't benefit anyone else.
I predict Vancouver will draw maybe 1,800-2,100, and that if UC is relegated to matinees half the time, they won't do much better... Looks like it's gonna be a long year for UC fans no matter how you slice it, and Oswego will lead the nation in attendance once again.
Latest reports out of Vancouver are that AHL voted yes on placing Canucks in the AUD. Also reporting that it is a deal for one season, with Abbotsford being the ultimate destination. If nothing else, UC will get the benefit of $2M of AUD improvements.
If this is really the case, I sure hope our local givernment didn't put any cash incentives on the table for the Canucks.
I read today that the grant was for 5 million, contingent on Utica landing an AHL team.
Talk about a short-sighted waste of public money, but in either case, The Aud gets a face-lift off the sweat of the taxpayers in exchange for the trouble of having an AHL team come and go in a year's time... I can see why the County has an interest in the deal, but it won't benefit anyone else.
I predict Vancouver will draw maybe 1,800-2,100, and that if UC is relegated to matinees half the time, they won't do much better... Looks like it's gonna be a long year for UC fans no matter how you slice it, and Oswego will lead the nation in attendance once again.
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
The "contract" is six years, everyone I have talked to is completely psyched we get to see the "big boys" play !! You now have your choice of D1(Colgate), D3(Utica), or the AHL. Winter will be a little easier for hockey fans.
The "contract" is six years, everyone I have talked to is completely psyched we get to see the "big boys" play !! You now have your choice of D1(Colgate), D3(Utica), or the AHL. Winter will be a little easier for hockey fans.
Birdwatcher
Registered User
Bringing back an old name to Central NY. I remember listening to the Clinton Comets hockey games on the radio when I was a kid!
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
Shabby, I've read a few times that it's only a one-year contract... Can you post a link if you have the time? Thanks! ( I heard that Abbotsford is where Vancouver is headed, too,)
Everybody knows that I hate this deal, but you all have to get a chuckle seeing the YNN footage of "hundreds" of people lining-up for Comet season tickets this morning... There were possibly 20 folks there, and even if there were 200, it's still a looong way to go to get to 4,000.
Shabby, I've read a few times that it's only a one-year contract... Can you post a link if you have the time? Thanks! ( I heard that Abbotsford is where Vancouver is headed, too,)
Everybody knows that I hate this deal, but you all have to get a chuckle seeing the YNN footage of "hundreds" of people lining-up for Comet season tickets this morning... There were possibly 20 folks there, and even if there were 200, it's still a looong way to go to get to 4,000.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season (Part Two)
Gotta wonder how many people are going to shuck-out $400-$800 for a season of AHL hockey here in God-forsaken Utica..? I'm sticking with my original estimate of fewer than 2,000 fans showing up, on average, and I'm predicting that Utica will be the AHL's doormat in that regard in '13/'14.
Saw on the local news last night that the deal is for 6 years, but then again, I've heard that Vancouver has an out-clause available at the end of any given season, which -if true- means that they can pull out right after next season, after wreaking havoc on the best D-3 situation in the nation.
I don't profess to know any of the financial details of this apparent travesty, but on its surface, it appears that The Aud and the County have whored themselves out yet again in another Quixotic attempt to make professional hockey work in a town where most of its residents don't.
It's a spectacularly stupid move (nothing new there for Utica) and it's going to hamstring the only hockey team that the community has truly supported in recent memory. I just don't see an up-side to it.
Gotta wonder how many people are going to shuck-out $400-$800 for a season of AHL hockey here in God-forsaken Utica..? I'm sticking with my original estimate of fewer than 2,000 fans showing up, on average, and I'm predicting that Utica will be the AHL's doormat in that regard in '13/'14.
Saw on the local news last night that the deal is for 6 years, but then again, I've heard that Vancouver has an out-clause available at the end of any given season, which -if true- means that they can pull out right after next season, after wreaking havoc on the best D-3 situation in the nation.
I don't profess to know any of the financial details of this apparent travesty, but on its surface, it appears that The Aud and the County have whored themselves out yet again in another Quixotic attempt to make professional hockey work in a town where most of its residents don't.
It's a spectacularly stupid move (nothing new there for Utica) and it's going to hamstring the only hockey team that the community has truly supported in recent memory. I just don't see an up-side to it.
If they play there for one season and leave the upside is that the Aud will get renovations and hopefully they'll fix that ice problem you guys have down there.
