What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

admiral0417 said:
Exactly !! Norwich was a very tough team back then, consisting mostly of Cadets I believe. I know we (Plattsburgh) met them in the ECAC playoffs more than once. If memory serves, Elmira, Oswego, Plattsburgh, Army, Norwich, Hamilton, Cortland, Brockport, Potsdam, Geneseo, Union, Middlebury, Buffalo, Williams, Westfield, North Adams & RIT was the West portion of DII.
Click to expand...

Couple things on this page... ECAC-WEst Regular season Champs in one year, and a couple years later took PSU to the third game in playoffs in the "*" year.....
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...11887132.65045.100001753966164&type=1&theater
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I know that in '79-82 Plattsburgh had quite a diverse schedule which included Army, UVM, Clarkson, Colby, New Haven, the old Buffalo Bulls, St. Lawrence, McGill, Canton ATC...you name it, we played 'em. So boring now with so little variation from year to year. We also played around 40 games too !!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

admiral0417 said:
I know that in '79-82 Plattsburgh had quite a diverse schedule which included Army, UVM, Clarkson, Colby, New Haven, the old Buffalo Bulls, St. Lawrence, McGill, Canton ATC...you name it, we played 'em. So boring now with so little variation from year to year. We also played around 40 games too !!
Click to expand...
We tend to forget the 1980 CCT-Plattsburgh game in Potsdam. :)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

admiral0417 said:
Time to bring back the old ECAC East and ECAC West...top 4 in each go to the NCAA's ,....along with top 4 in West...what a tourney that would be; (using KRACH DII/DIII Combined...the truest measure)

Amherst @ Babson
UMass-Boston @ Plattsburgh
Norwich @ Geneseo
Oswego @ Trinity
Stevens Point @ St. Norbert
Adrian @ St. Thomas

Now THAT would be a tournament !!
Click to expand...

As far as the East goes, I like your pairings/sitings and wouldn't change a thing.

As an aside on this general topic: perhaps someone will enlighten me as to why Genny has to go to Norwich, as the higher NCAA-ranked team?

Why does the Gang of Four even bother to publish that rankings rubbish, then do a 180 for no discernible reason a week later? (See Trinity, who dropped from #1 to nowhere, on the basis of PS tournament results that were essentially similar to what Norwich and Genny had.)

And Norwich gets to host two games for a shot at the FF, while it should probably have been the first team out..? Gotta love how D-3 processes the information.
 
Last edited:
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

norm1909 said:
In the absence of any violations, as conference champions in a league with an AQ, they are 100% legitimate - they represent the team with the best body of work over the course of a season their conference had to offer.
Click to expand...

Ummm.... No.

The AQ is the team that has won a little PS-tourney, nothing more.

That team could have been granted a bid because it had gotten some bounces in their conference tournament, while going, say, 3-21 over the "the course of a season"... (Your words, right?)

To explain: let's say that a 3-21 team gets hot, wins its weekend tournament, and finishes 6-21; does that somehow make that season worthy of an NCAA bid in your eyes? Are the 20+ games preceding the the asinine conference tournament just exhibitions, in your opinion?

You really need to Google "sample-size", Larry, and maybe hire someone to explain that concept to you... You just don't have a clue as to how statistics work right now.
 
Last edited:
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Fishman'81 said:
As an aside on this general topic: perhaps someone will enlighten me as to why Genny has to go to Norwich, as the higher NCAA-ranked team?

And Norwich gets to host two games for a shot at the FF, while it should probably have been the first team out..? Gotta love how D-3 processes the information.
Click to expand...

FYI Norwich will traveling to Geneseo for the quarter-final game. In case you have not taken the time to read about it, the East Quarter-final games will be played on Sunday at 3:00PM :rolleyes:
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Fishman'81 said:
Ummm.... No.

The AQ is the team that has won a little PS-tourney, nothing more.

That team could have been granted a bid because it had gotten some bounces in their conference tournament, while going, say, 3-21 over the "the course of a season"... (Your words, right?)

To explain: let's say that a 3-21 team gets hot, wins its weekend tournament, and finishes 6-21; does that somehow make that season worthy of an NCAA bid in your eyes? Are the 20+ games preceding the the asinine conference tournament just exhibitions, in your opinion?

You really need to Google "sample-size", Larry, and maybe hire someone to explain that concept to you... You just don't have a clue as to how statistics work right now.
Click to expand...

If it went 3-21 over the "the course of a season" and became Cinderella, then they legitimately deserve the crown and the AQ.

If you understood statistics, you would realize that when you have a very small sample size your results have wide confidence intervals and the given the risks of errors in the statistical hypothesis testing makes the "little PS-tourney" that much more of a valid indicator, of who at the end of the season is best qualified to represent their conference.

Alpha's (aka Cinderella's) occur, settling it on the ice makes it black and white.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

PSUChamps2001 said:
Another fine example of Fish knowledge
Click to expand...

ANd he will either:
a-maintain you misunderstood his post
b-claim to have seen that somewhere else (curiously no longer available however)
c-deny he said it
d-ignore it
e-ALL of the above
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

The conference tournaments are in essence an extension of the NCAA tournament, following which, 'second chances' are handed out to 4 teams deemed worthy by a committee that is provided guidance by the NCAA but weighs the criteria in a fashion only known to them to determine the 4.

View the system in this way and you'll be as close to at peace with it as you can be. :)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

jcase said:
The conference tournaments are in essence an extension of the NCAA tournament, following which, 'second chances' are handed out to 4 teams deemed worthy by a committee that is provided guidance by the NCAA but weighs the criteria in a fashion only known to them to determine the 4.

View the system in this way and you'll be as close to at peace with it as you can be. :)
Click to expand...

Perhaps Fish wants a BCS Playoff model with say four teams making it. It will be very healthy for D-III hockey and no one on this forum will argue about it at all. Hell, why don't we take the thought to its logical conclusion and just have the polls determine the national champion a la college football pre-BCS because the sample size of the regular season will show who really deserves the title. ;)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Fishy is just upset that Elmira beat Utica to win the ECAC west tournament. If Utica won his story would be different. He claims it doesn't mean anything but I bet winning the SUNY would have meant something to platty!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

If a team is 3-31 during the season they either are not going to make the playoffs or in the case of Buffalo States women, are simply not good enough to get hot and go on a run. If you are 3-21 you are a lot more than a few bounces from winning a conference tournament.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

smbenny said:
Fishy is just upset that Elmira beat Utica to win the ECAC west tournament. If Utica won his story would be different. He claims it doesn't mean anything but I bet winning the SUNY would have meant something to platty!
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that you don't have to actually use the "add to ignore list" feature to ignore someone or their posts.;)
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

thread title says lewiston or bust.........i guess its BUST.........just sayin:eek:
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

jcase said:
The conference tournaments are in essence an extension of the NCAA tournament, following which, 'second chances' are handed out to 4 teams deemed worthy by a committee that is provided guidance by the NCAA but weighs the criteria in a fashion only known to them to determine the 4.

View the system in this way and you'll be as close to at peace with it as you can be. :)
Click to expand...

I agree. The big problem in my view is more the lack of transparency with the process by which the committee makes its decisions, and the value of some of the metrics.I think it would be fairer to all involved if teams knew exactly what they had to do to get in without the committee's intervention, or at least it would be nice if we had access to the final regional rankings - that would help make the committee more accountable for their decisions, too.

All that being said, I would have been prepared to accept NU being left out, because as we have said for years - if you leave the decision up to committee, it is what it is. If you win the tournament there is no question.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

NUProf said:
I agree. The big problem in my view is more the lack of transparency with the process by which the committee makes its decisions, and the value of some of the metrics.I think it would be fairer to all involved if teams knew exactly what they had to do to get in without the committee's intervention, or at least it would be nice if we had access to the final regional rankings - that would help make the committee more accountable for their decisions, too.

All that being said, I would have been prepared to accept NU being left out, because as we have said for years - if you leave the decision up to committee, it is what it is. If you win the tournament there is no question.
Click to expand...
And I will point out again, in D-I land (that is according to the posters on the D-I threads) winning your league's tournament, especially if you were not one of the top seeds, is considered the "cheap" way into the NCAA tournament. Really. But with 16 teams, there are a lot more at large bids.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top