CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Actually, region no longer matters as of this year, so the games against Superior DID count... Just for future reference
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Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
- Thread starter jcase
- Start date
Actually, region no longer matters as of this year, so the games against Superior DID count... Just for future reference
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Just for the record - Norwich's DIII record was 17-5-2 (They were 2-1-1 against DII) competition
Plattsburgh was 18-5-2. I suspect that the committee would regard that as essentially even. (It's a half game difference in baseball terms)
There is no distinction between in and out of region games, and DII games can be considered as secondary criteria.
I don't see a conspiracy, but I do know that the decision had to be very close.
Trinity had a better case than Plattsburgh for getting in, but I think the real questionable choice is Geneseo. Looking at the computer rankings (mine and KRACH) Geneseo ranks behind all three of Norwich, Trinity, and Plattsburgh. (Although, in the case of my rankings, I know that the difference is not statistically significant. KRACH doesn't give a margin of error, but the numbers seem close there, too). If you want to complain on the basis of a different set of metrics, there are two that you can use to justify a complaint.
Just for the record - Norwich's DIII record was 17-5-2 (They were 2-1-1 against DII) competition
Plattsburgh was 18-5-2. I suspect that the committee would regard that as essentially even. (It's a half game difference in baseball terms)
There is no distinction between in and out of region games, and DII games can be considered as secondary criteria.
I don't see a conspiracy, but I do know that the decision had to be very close.
Trinity had a better case than Plattsburgh for getting in, but I think the real questionable choice is Geneseo. Looking at the computer rankings (mine and KRACH) Geneseo ranks behind all three of Norwich, Trinity, and Plattsburgh. (Although, in the case of my rankings, I know that the difference is not statistically significant. KRACH doesn't give a margin of error, but the numbers seem close there, too). If you want to complain on the basis of a different set of metrics, there are two that you can use to justify a complaint.
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Norwich was the only questionable choice, not Geneseo. Geneseo had Win%, RNK, COP, and last 25% over Norwich. All Norwich had over Geneseo was SOS. Norwich was the last pool C team. Computer rankings don't matter, just the criteria.
Norwich was the only questionable choice, not Geneseo. Geneseo had Win%, RNK, COP, and last 25% over Norwich. All Norwich had over Geneseo was SOS. Norwich was the last pool C team. Computer rankings don't matter, just the criteria.
admiral0417
Registered User
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
It's a battle I've been fighting for 2 weeks now....I just gave up !! It doesn't seem to matter to them.
It's a battle I've been fighting for 2 weeks now....I just gave up !! It doesn't seem to matter to them.
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Ah, but this thread is the home of the people who idolize the KRACH
Ah, but this thread is the home of the people who idolize the KRACH
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Thou shall not have strange KRACH before me!Ah, but this thread is the home of the people who idolize the KRACH
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Update on reported recruits for next season. As their regular season has finished, these are their stats.
Anthony McVeigh-F Carleton Place (CCHL)-62GP 12G 19A
Adam Moody-F Cowichan Valley (BCHL)-32GP 5G 6A
Kevin Valenti-F Northern Cyclones (EHL)-44GP 35G 41A
Max Bartell-F Walpole Express (EHL)-38GP 14G 10A
Spencer Landry-G Hartford (EHL)- .920% 2.80GAA
Recent commit Dalton Carter has accepted an offer to play for UMass-Lowell.
Update on reported recruits for next season. As their regular season has finished, these are their stats.
Anthony McVeigh-F Carleton Place (CCHL)-62GP 12G 19A
Adam Moody-F Cowichan Valley (BCHL)-32GP 5G 6A
Kevin Valenti-F Northern Cyclones (EHL)-44GP 35G 41A
Max Bartell-F Walpole Express (EHL)-38GP 14G 10A
Spencer Landry-G Hartford (EHL)- .920% 2.80GAA
Recent commit Dalton Carter has accepted an offer to play for UMass-Lowell.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Most significantly, does it reflect favorably on the team with the best body of work over the course of a season? NOPE!
(Why can't you grasp what this argument boils-down to..? It really shouldn't be that difficult, Larry... Do you actually contend that Salem State was anywhere near a legit tournament team this year, for example?)
Most significantly, does it reflect favorably on the team with the best body of work over the course of a season? NOPE!
(Why can't you grasp what this argument boils-down to..? It really shouldn't be that difficult, Larry... Do you actually contend that Salem State was anywhere near a legit tournament team this year, for example?)
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Good Lord, we actually agree 100% on something..!
Please allow me to buy you lunch the next time that you have the misfortune to visit Utica.
Good Lord, we actually agree 100% on something..!
Please allow me to buy you lunch the next time that you have the misfortune to visit Utica.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Well, I'll tell you what: as volatile as the KRACH can be at times in D-3 (with its too few logical comparisons) it has usually made a whole bunch more sense than your "stats" have on the "can't-be-named-other site", and while you processed the exact same data.
Ah, but this thread is the home of the people who idolize the KRACH
Well, I'll tell you what: as volatile as the KRACH can be at times in D-3 (with its too few logical comparisons) it has usually made a whole bunch more sense than your "stats" have on the "can't-be-named-other site", and while you processed the exact same data.
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
In the absence of any violations, as conference champions in a league with an AQ, they are 100% legitimate - they represent the team with the best body of work over the course of a season their conference had to offer. The AQ is a powerful recruiting tool, one IMO that should be rewarded to ANY sanctioned conference, regardless of the number of teams in the conference - if the NCAA has an issue, then they dissolve the conference. Now would have wagered on them winning? Nope. The national tournament is the chance to find the with team with the aggregate chemistry - the teamwork that can make it happen, Cinderella's are rare, but then again, that is what makes them Cinderellas.
In the absence of any violations, as conference champions in a league with an AQ, they are 100% legitimate - they represent the team with the best body of work over the course of a season their conference had to offer. The AQ is a powerful recruiting tool, one IMO that should be rewarded to ANY sanctioned conference, regardless of the number of teams in the conference - if the NCAA has an issue, then they dissolve the conference. Now would have wagered on them winning? Nope. The national tournament is the chance to find the with team with the aggregate chemistry - the teamwork that can make it happen, Cinderella's are rare, but then again, that is what makes them Cinderellas.
admiral0417
Registered User
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Time to bring back the old ECAC East and ECAC West...top 4 in each go to the NCAA's ,....along with top 4 in West...what a tourney that would be; (using KRACH DII/DIII Combined...the truest measure)
Amherst @ Babson
UMass-Boston @ Plattsburgh
Norwich @ Geneseo
Oswego @ Trinity
Stevens Point @ St. Norbert
Adrian @ St. Thomas
Now THAT would be a tournament !!
Time to bring back the old ECAC East and ECAC West...top 4 in each go to the NCAA's ,....along with top 4 in West...what a tourney that would be; (using KRACH DII/DIII Combined...the truest measure)
Amherst @ Babson
UMass-Boston @ Plattsburgh
Norwich @ Geneseo
Oswego @ Trinity
Stevens Point @ St. Norbert
Adrian @ St. Thomas
Now THAT would be a tournament !!
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
But you have 5 ECAC-East teams?
But you have 5 ECAC-East teams?
bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
carter would have been nice it looks like..is that Samuel Thomas guy still around??
admiral0417
Registered User
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
I may be wrong, but back in the day I thought Norwich was in ECAC West with Plattsburgh & Oswego??
I may be wrong, but back in the day I thought Norwich was in ECAC West with Plattsburgh & Oswego??
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
But neither does the NCAA Tournament. Should we simply crown SNC the champion right now based upon their body of work over the course of the season?
But neither does the NCAA Tournament. Should we simply crown SNC the champion right now based upon their body of work over the course of the season?
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
If the day was 30 years ago, yes. It also wasn't always DIII either.
If the day was 30 years ago, yes. It also wasn't always DIII either.
admiral0417
Registered User
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
Exactly !! Norwich was a very tough team back then, consisting mostly of Cadets I believe. I know we (Plattsburgh) met them in the ECAC playoffs more than once. If memory serves, Elmira, Oswego, Plattsburgh, Army, Norwich, Hamilton, Cortland, Brockport, Potsdam, Geneseo, Union, Middlebury, Buffalo, Williams, Westfield, North Adams & RIT was the West portion of DII.
Exactly !! Norwich was a very tough team back then, consisting mostly of Cadets I believe. I know we (Plattsburgh) met them in the ECAC playoffs more than once. If memory serves, Elmira, Oswego, Plattsburgh, Army, Norwich, Hamilton, Cortland, Brockport, Potsdam, Geneseo, Union, Middlebury, Buffalo, Williams, Westfield, North Adams & RIT was the West portion of DII.
Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust
That was in the days before the NCAA had the current structure.
I think at that time the NCAA had two "divisions," the University Division and the College Division.
Divisions I, II, and III in Eastern hockey were according to the ECAC. The ECAC Division I included ECAC Hockey League and Hockey East, Division II West was as you described it, Division II East included schools east of the CT River such as St. As, AIC, Bowdoin, Colby, etc. There was less division between DI and DII games for quite a while. When I was in school at Dartmouth, I remember games between Dartmouth and Bowdoin, for example. Divison III was a lower level league that was called the ECAC North/South. That group eventually became the "old" ECAC NE.
That was in the days before the NCAA had the current structure.
I think at that time the NCAA had two "divisions," the University Division and the College Division.
Divisions I, II, and III in Eastern hockey were according to the ECAC. The ECAC Division I included ECAC Hockey League and Hockey East, Division II West was as you described it, Division II East included schools east of the CT River such as St. As, AIC, Bowdoin, Colby, etc. There was less division between DI and DII games for quite a while. When I was in school at Dartmouth, I remember games between Dartmouth and Bowdoin, for example. Divison III was a lower level league that was called the ECAC North/South. That group eventually became the "old" ECAC NE.