Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Hard to say if it was in on time. I think I heard the time of the goal was 19:58 on the PA, but it's still hard to understand what they say. They did play a good 3rd period, but half the 1st and most of the 2nd belonged to the visitors. Hobart is very strong on the puck and I think UC has a little more speed. Either way, it was a fun game to watch and I agree that they can't take a deep breath until after the horn sounds.

I agree with your overall analysis.

The official time of the goal was 19:59, and that slim margin "felt" accurate as far as my internal clock went.

Tough loss, especially when HC was wearing down and looked too spent to play an effective OT.

Slowy has looked dinged-up since the 2nd on Friday, and I think that his impaired ability was a factor in UC not being able to waste the last 7.8 seconds in the corner, as opposed to settling for that fateful own-zone faceoff.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

We hadn't had dinner so we left after two periods(many beers though). I was very disappointed with UC after two. Even thought the shots were even I thought Hobart was the better team last night. I don't know how UC looked in the third . UC couldn't get out of their own end, I didn't see two passes in a row breaking out, it was all bang the puck off the boards and try to create chances...wasn't working. Either UC is not as good as I hoped or Hobart was better than I thought they'd be. Hobart lost Broadwater their All American goalie too. One thing for sure, the ECAC West is very tough , even Nazareth is playing good hockey. You better be ready to play every weekend, I do know that. Should be a very interesting year.

Teams are going to trap UC to death all year long, just as EC and HC did... That's the only way to counter UC's superior speed/skill, and to take the game to the boards, where some teams possess more strength.

Look for more dump-and-chase from Utica. Heenan re-worked the breakout in the 3rd to include all five guys, but that wasn't much more effective than the three-man breakout he used previously... I'm expecting more of a chip-and-chase approach in the future.

I hate watching that style of hockey, but we'll see a lot more of it this year, IMO. UC isn't going to sneak-up on anyone in '13-'14. They're going to have to grind-out a lot of games to succeed in the W, where there are plenty of good players and plenty of good coaches.

Just my $0.02.

 

[vcxc3200]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Any word on Zappia? I don't think he returned, did he? Heard his name all night and remember him from last season - solid defenseman for sure.

Hate to see a guy leave a game like that....hoping that injury didn't end his season.

Came out of the Locker Room, tested it, then came back out for the following period, took a penalty in the corner and the collision was enough for him to remove himself from the game.

 

[jcase]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Came out of the Locker Room, tested it, then came back out for the following period, took a penalty in the corner and the collision was enough for him to remove himself from the game.

Zappia being hurt/out didn't do UC any favors as the rest of the Dmen were forced to take extra shifts which showed down the stretch.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Yeah, that's a valid point, but Slowy looked somewhat injured to me in the late stages of the EC game, and definitely a step behind his usual pace throughout Saturday's game.

(I only single him out because he's become such a trustworthy D-man. Hope he gets healthy soon; UC will need him on the road this coming weekend.)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

x-2

That all depends on how you prefer to define "conference champions"...

If you think that's it's logical to discard an entire season of data in favor of a brief weekend tournament, than I suppose that you think that NC winning a couple of games at that juncture is an over-riding achievement? (It wasn't.)

Utica had the best resume in the W last year by any reasonable measure, and Hobart was right there, too...

I'm hoping that the W is never awarded an AQ, just on the basis of how ridiculous it is to negate a season's work on the basis of one or two games, after the fact. (I'm fine with those games being factored-into the equation, but they shouldn't be weighted as any more important than RS games.)

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

That all depends on how you prefer to define "conference champions"...

If you think that's it's logical to discard an entire season of data in favor of a brief weekend tournament, than I suppose that you think that NC winning a couple of games at that juncture is an over-riding achievement? (It wasn't.)

Utica had the best resume in the W last year by any reasonable measure, and Hobart was right there, too...

How do I prefer to define "conference champions"? I choose to define it however the conference in question has determined it will be defined. I'm a patriots fan, but do I say that the 2007-2008 Patriots team (who clearly played the best across the whole season) were NFL Champs because I choose to disregard the fact that they lost in some silly game in February? No. They lost the Super Bowl, and that is how the NFL has deemed that the Champion be chosen, and so the Giants were NFL Champions that year.

Bottom line, no matter how much you whine and complain about it, the record says, and will always say, that Neumann University were the ECAC-W Conference Champions. You've been made fun of on this board for some of your opinions and some perceived inconsistency, but I'm fairly certain this is the worst: You are disputing an indisputable fact. I hope you realize that.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

That all depends on how you prefer to define "conference champions"...

If you think that's it's logical to discard an entire season of data in favor of a brief weekend tournament, than I suppose that you think that NC winning a couple of games at that juncture is an over-riding achievement? (It wasn't.)

Utica had the best resume in the W last year by any reasonable measure, and Hobart was right there, too...

How do I prefer to define "conference champions"? I choose to define it however the conference in question has determined it will be defined. I'm a patriots fan, but do I say that the 2007-2008 Patriots team (who clearly played the best across the whole season) were NFL Champs because I choose to disregard the fact that they lost in some silly game in February? No. They lost the Super Bowl, and that is how the NFL has deemed that the Champion be chosen, and so the Giants were NFL Champions that year.

Bottom line, no matter how much you whine and complain about it, the record says, and will always say, that Neumann University were the ECAC-W Conference Champions. You've been made fun of on this board for some of your opinions and some perceived inconsistency, but I'm fairly certain this is the worst: You are disputing an indisputable fact. I hope you realize that.

WOW that smells like a fish fry to me...good night Irene/nurse

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

That all depends on how you prefer to define "conference champions"...

If you think that's it's logical to discard an entire season of data in favor of a brief weekend tournament, than I suppose that you think that NC winning a couple of games at that juncture is an over-riding achievement? (It wasn't.)

Utica had the best resume in the W last year by any reasonable measure, and Hobart was right there, too...

How do I prefer to define "conference champions"? I choose to define it however the conference in question has determined it will be defined. I'm a patriots fan, but do I say that the 2007-2008 Patriots team (who clearly played the best across the whole season) were NFL Champs because I choose to disregard the fact that they lost in some silly game in February? No. They lost the Super Bowl, and that is how the NFL has deemed that the Champion be chosen, and so the Giants were NFL Champions that year.

Bottom line, no matter how much you whine and complain about it, the record says, and will always say, that Neumann University were the ECAC-W Conference Champions. You've been made fun of on this board for some of your opinions and some perceived inconsistency, but I'm fairly certain this is the worst: You are disputing an indisputable fact. I hope you realize that.

Well, I'm neither a Patriots nor a Giants fan, and your NFL analogy is neither here nor there, either...

I ask you: were either NY or NE required to win a PS intra-division tournament that basically negated their RS after the fact, just to get into the hunt for the Lombardi Trophy..? Of course not; that extraneous layer of qualifier is the NCAA'$ cynical construct, which has (regrettably) trickled all the way down from big-time hoops to the obscure sport of D-3 hockey.

And as far as Neumann went last year, do you for one minute suppose that the Knights were happy polishing their "championship" trophy, while simultaneously calling for tee-times the next day, their season being over on the very night that they won that dubious hardware..? Come on. That "championship" exists in name only.

I was actually happy that the W didn't have the magic number of teams to render their tourney valid per the NCAA AQ criteria, because NC would have then displaced an AL team that was more deserving of playing on (Babson?), and the W would therefore become have been part of this ongoing problem.

Think in terms of sample-size, and you'll possibly grasp my point; the status-quo doesn't possess any inherent merit just by dint of being the status-quo.

 

[LakerFan99]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

That all depends on how you prefer to define "conference champions"...

If you think that's it's logical to discard an entire season of data in favor of a brief weekend tournament, than I suppose that you think that NC winning a couple of games at that juncture is an over-riding achievement? (It wasn't.)

Utica had the best resume in the W last year by any reasonable measure, and Hobart was right there, too...

Well, I'm neither a Patriots nor a Giants fan, and your NFL analogy is neither here nor there, either...

I ask you: were either NY or NE required to win a PS intra-division tournament that basically negated their RS after the fact, just to get into the hunt for the Lombardi Trophy..? Of course not; that extraneous layer of qualifier is the NCAA'$ cynical construct, which has (regrettably) trickled all the way down from big-time hoops to the obscure sport of D-3 hockey.

And as far as Neumann went last year, do you for one minute suppose that the Knights were happy polishing their "championship" trophy, while simultaneously calling for tee-times the next day, their season being over on the very night that they won that dubious hardware..? Come on. That "championship" exists in name only.

I was actually happy that the W didn't have the magic number of teams to render their tourney valid per the NCAA AQ criteria, because NC would have then displaced an AL team that was more deserving of playing on (Babson?), and the W would therefore become have been part of this ongoing problem.

Think in terms of sample-size, and you'll possibly grasp my point; the status-quo doesn't possess any inherent merit just by dint of being the status-quo.

I'm sure they were happy that they got a trophy and Utica didn't.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Pretty sure that that trinket didn't mean much to the guys from Aston, as opposed to getting a shot at another NC.

(I'm gonna give this sideshow a rest; it wasn't my intention to arouse the rabble in the first place... But, guys, is there really anyone out there who sincerely believes that a 2/3 game conference tournament should in any way trump a 15+ game conference RS?)

 

[dmac1103]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Pretty sure that that trinket didn't mean much to the guys from Aston, as opposed to getting a shot at another NC.

I'm gonna give this sideshow a rest; it wasn't my intention to arouse the rabble in the first place.

But, guys, is there really anyone out there who sincerely believes that a 2/3 game conference tournament should in any way trump a 15+ game conference RS?

Here is a scenario for you Team A is expected to win their conference regular season title as well as the conference tournament. They start off great but then get hit with injuries to some of their important players and barely make the conference tournament. But once they get to that tournament they have everybody back and they play like they did in the beginning and win the conference championship and then the national championship. Is it fair to say that well this other team had more wins then you so they should be champions? Even though your players worked their butt off to play the way they did? What about a team like Oswego this year who are playing with mostly Freshmen if they end up 2nd or 3rd in the conference but start playing well near the end of the season and go into the SUNYAC playoff on a run and win the conference championship their hard work all season long should go unnoticed because another team had more wins?

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I hear you, but a season is a season, injuries and all... Every game counts as much as any other, going-into the PS, and bad luck factors-in for a lot of teams.

So, you can't reasonably attach as much weight to brief weekend here or there as you would to the entire year's body of work, no matter which way any small sample slices.

 

[OSU2010]

I hear you, but a season is a season, injuries and all... Every game counts as much as any other, going-into the PS, and bad luck factors-in for a lot of teams.

So, you can't reasonably attach as much weight to brief weekend here or there as you would to the entire year's body of work, no matter which way any small sample slices.

what if a team with 15 wins against cupcakes beats a team with 25 wins against tough opponents in the first round of the NCAA's, should the team with 25 wins advance because they have a better body of work? I don't think so, and this is why we play the games.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Team A:

W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-L-W-W-W-W-W-W-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L 14-11

Team B:
L-L-L-L-L-L-L-W-L-L-L-L-L-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W 13-12

Your contender for PS is Team A???

 

[MountainMan]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

The conference tournaments should be viewed as an extension of the NCAA tournament. Regular season helps set the seeding for the tournament, nothing more nothing less. A regular season title means nothing if you don't win your conference tournament. I am not sure of anyone who would brag about being regular season champs unless they were also the conference tournament champ.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

The conference tournaments should be viewed as an extension of the NCAA tournament. Regular season helps set the seeding for the tournament, nothing more nothing less. A regular season title means nothing if you don't win your conference tournament. I am not sure of anyone who would brag about being regular season champs unless they were also the conference tournament champ.

+1. Who would brag about catching the most minnows if they don't catch the biggest fish and win the tournament?

 

[jconnor]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

The conference tournaments should be viewed as an extension of the NCAA tournament. Regular season helps set the seeding for the tournament, nothing more nothing less. A regular season title means nothing if you don't win your conference tournament. I am not sure of anyone who would brag about being regular season champs unless they were also the conference tournament champ.

I've been saying that for years now. Elmira being a fine example.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I've been saying that for years now. Elmira being a fine example.

You know for as much as we pick on Oswego (3 Championships as the #1 seed in 8 attempts) Elmira is only a 20% with 1 Championship as the #1 seed 5 times. I guess we should stop picking on Oswego......nah.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Pretty sure that that trinket didn't mean much to the guys from Aston, as opposed to getting a shot at another NC.

(I'm gonna give this sideshow a rest; it wasn't my intention to arouse the rabble in the first place... But, guys, is there really anyone out there who sincerely believes that a 2/3 game conference tournament should in any way trump a 15+ game conference RS?)

I still contend that if you believe this, then you should also be bashing how the NCAA Champion is determined because it just a 3/4 game tournament that trumps a 25+ game RS...