Unrest in Egypt

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Amnesty issues statement about arrested staff: http://tinyurl.com/6gltcnt

Amnesty International representative detained in Cairo

An Amnesty International representative has been detained by police in Cairo after the Hisham Mubarak Law Centre was taken over by military police this morning.

The Amnesty International member of staff was taken, along with Ahmed Seif Al Islam, Khaled Ali, a delegate from Human Rights Watch and others, to an unknown location in Cairo. Amnesty International does not know their current whereabouts.

“We call for the immediate and safe release of our colleagues and others with them who should be able to monitor the human rights situation in Egypt at this crucial time without fear of harassment or detention,” said Salil Shetty, Secretary General of Amnesty International.

A number of other activists are still being held in the Centre, including a second Amnesty International member of staff.

BBC Tweet

Egyptian security seize BBC equipment at Cairo Hilton in attempt to stop us broadcasting

RT@NickKristof Govt is trying to round up journalists. I worry bout what it is they're planning that they don't want us 2 see

@BBCWorld -first AJ, now sadly BBC.Press should be handled with care, but govt in #Egypt is not realizing that.

update- around 30 human rights activists/lawyers/researchers arrested from their offices. 3 from int'l NGOs & rest from local NGOs.

Breaking:

Sky News: VP to make a statement 9 mins time"

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Address by Egyptian Vice President Omar Suleiman begins soon. Live: http://on.cnn.com/cnndcl2

BBC also carrying it

VP: Says most protesters were peaceful, but some of the protesters infiltrated the police, so the military was called in to protect.
Mubarak believes the youths have legitimate issues which he wants to listen to.
The youth demanded the dissolution of parliament. So we can't study reforms.
We should respect the September election date.
We need time. It can not happen in one day.
Parliament will be suspended until complaints are addressed.
"We need at least 70 days, if not more."

He's not making any sense.
I'm not posting any more of his gibberish. He's talking out both sides of his mouth and making absolutely no sense. The pro-Democracy protesters never asked for Parliament to be dissolved...he says the president has suspended the Parliament...the complaints can't be addressed while Parliament is suspended but they will address the complaints... He's talking in circles, probably deliberately.

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo cites a retired general who has been speaking to tank crews on the square as saying the army is losing patience, and if firing continues from pro-government supporters, it is willing to fire on them.

Uh oh.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

He (the VP) is also talking about they may need to rewrite the entire constitution...yeah that should work if they have to wait until September. They need to move up the elections...or they need to allow for a Congress of some sort. If this has to wait until September this will erupt into civil war.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Echoing Priceless' summary of Suleiman. The protesters have been very clear about what they want and it isn't what he's addressing. I don't think he's ignorant of their demands but just trying to evade and spin. Authoritarians are all the same when they are called out -- they always claim a "silent majority" supports them.

Now he's insinuating that it's all Al Jazeera's fault. Because, you know, if you don't report on dissent there's no dissent?

Now he's playing the "we will not let Egypt be dictated to by the outside" card. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

And now he's just flat-out lying about the police. It's "outside forces" who caused the chaos. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

He (the VP) is also talking about they may need to rewrite the entire constitution...yeah that should work if they have to wait until September. They need to move up the elections...or they need to allow for a Congress of some sort. If this has to wait until September this will erupt into civil war.

Not sure. Civil war to me implies significant numbers on both sides. I think the pro-Mubarak side are simply paid thugs. There really aren't enough of them to sustain a civil war. However, escalting violence is quite possible.

Think Romania at the fall of Ceaucescu. The Securitate caused a lot of trouble, but eventually the people stood up to them, got to Ceaucescu and ended things. It'll get ugly for a few days, but if the violence continues, I really think the army will step in.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Not sure. Civil war to me implies significant numbers on both sides. I think the pro-Mubarak side are simply paid thugs. There really aren't enough of them to sustain a civil war. However, escalting violence is quite possible.

Think Romania at the fall of Ceaucescu. The Securitate caused a lot of trouble, but eventually the people stood up to them, got to Ceaucescu and ended things. It'll get ugly for a few days, but if the violence continues, I really think the army will step in.

The elites in Heliopolis who the BBC was interviewing would also support authority, which means Mubarak if the army still supports him, as soon as the curb appeal of their condos is endangered. There are probably also a LOT of people who don't really want the records of who narced out who to the secret police unsealed. "Honey, remember when your father disappeared right about the time we were negotiating how to split up the cotton business. Um, take a seat, we need to talk."

"Suspicious operatives who prevented the police from doing their job." Wow, that could have come right out of Havana, Caracas or Beijing.

"Any more protests represent foreign agendas." Dictators always declare when protests are no longer "legitimate" -- it's the Overton window writ in blood. How could anyone trust anything these guys say?

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

The elites in Heliopolis who the BBC was interviewing would also support authority, which means Mubarak if the army still supports him, as soon as the curb appeal of their condos is endangered. There are probably also a LOT of people who don't really want the records of who narced out who to the secret police unsealed.

"Suspicious operatives who prevented the police from doing their job." Wow, that could have come right out of Havana, Caracas or Beijing.

"Any more protests represent foreign agendas." Dictators always declare when protests are no longer "legitimate" -- it's the Overton window writ in blood. How could anyone trust anything these guys say?

Fascism, Communism, same thing. The only difference is who they blame to keep the people suppressed and themselves in power.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Fascism, Communism, same thing. The only difference is who they blame to keep the people suppressed and themselves in power.

Rule Number Four from a guy who knew.

A dictator’s first task is to make what he wants popular, bringing the will of the nation in tune with his own will. Only then will the broad masses support him in the long run and join his ranks.

A dictator always equates his regime with the nation. Thus, any protest against the regime is "an attack on the nation." And who would attack the nation? Outside forces and a fifth column, of course.

So far we have heard from the protesters who understand this is a logical fallacy, but who knows what the vast populations who get all their news from state TV think?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Reaction:

Why do I strongly feel that they're dealing with it like theyre our abusive authoritarian parents and we're rebellious brat children?

Dear Omar Suleiman: #Mubarak is neither my father nor a father figure to me so don't blame me for saying "I WANT HIM OUT!"...

Not all the desperate lie-fiilled speeches by #Mubarak, #Soliman or anyone assoc with regime can convince #Egyptians they're sincere

during the whole 9 days, I never heard the word "democracy" from anyone related to Mubarak's system all they talk about is stability

Omar Suleiman, thank you for showing your true face to the world. Some didn't know the real you.

in reaction to Soliman speech, Portesters in Tahrir and Alexandria are chanting " Leave" "Leave"

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

A dictator’s first task is to make what he wants popular, bringing the will of the nation in tune with his own will. Only then will the broad masses support him in the long run and join his ranks.

Are you talking about Egypt, or the buildup to the invasion of Iraq?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

The latest estimates are 13 dead and over 1000 wounded.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Are you talking about Egypt, or the buildup to the invasion of Iraq?

As despicable as the prior administration was, it wasn't anything like a dictatorship. All right wing nationalist regimes have a tendency to employ ideas and language that are similar to what full blown authoritarians use, but just because they have the same touchstones -- flag, religious icons, xenophobia, homophobia, machismo, guns -- doesn't make them fascists any more than liberals' use of terms like social class, justice, and worker's rights make them communists.

At the end of the day the Bushies didn't outlaw the Democratic party or "kill all the liberals but one to serve as an example" the way their braying entertainment wing fantasized. They were inept, amoral and paranoid, but they were still firmly democratic.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

As despicable as the prior administration was, it wasn't anything like a dictatorship. All right wing nationalist regimes have a tendency to employ ideas and language that are similar to what full blown authoritarians use, but just because they have the same touchstones -- flag, religious icons, xenophobia, homophobia, machismo, guns -- doesn't make them fascists any more than liberals' use of terms like social class, justice, and worker's rights make them communists.

At the end of the day the Bushies didn't outlaw the Democratic party or "kill all the liberals but one to serve as an example" the way their braying entertainment wing fantasized. They were inept, amoral and paranoid, but they were still firmly democratic.

You're no fun

Suleiman's interview was like watching a live real-time version of 1984.

Farcical moment: the regime that owes it's survival to the US is openly advocating anti-Americanism to gain legitimacy.not a 1st

"Please excuse our appearance during our revolution. Thank you."

@andersoncooper: Situation on ground in #egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All ok.

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

As despicable as the prior administration was, it wasn't anything like a dictatorship. All right wing nationalist regimes have a tendency to employ ideas and language that are similar to what full blown authoritarians use, but just because they have the same touchstones -- flag, religious icons, xenophobia, homophobia, machismo, guns -- doesn't make them fascists any more than liberals' use of terms like social class, justice, and worker's rights make them communists.

At the end of the day the Bushies didn't outlaw the Democratic party or "kill all the liberals but one to serve as an example" the way their braying entertainment wing fantasized. They were inept, amoral and paranoid, but they were still firmly democratic.

Firmly, no. Nominally, yes.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

From those tweets:

the regime that owes it's survival to the US is openly advocating anti-Americanism to gain legitimacy

Yeah, the moment I heard Suleiman play that note, I thought "you know that $2B check you get every year? We've decided that's interference in your internal affairs and we're canceling it."

(Though to be fair, that check serves only one purpose -- it's a bribe to make nice with You Know Who.)

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

More

Sally Zahran has died by a hit of a bat on her head

Al Jazeera: Ahmed Maher of the 6th of April Youth Movement "There is not dialogue with the regime until Mubarak steps down"

Suleiman just urged prisoners who escaped frm jail over past few days to "please return" He lost all credibility

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Firmly, no. Nominally, yes.

Well, firmly in the sense of the golden rule.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

From those tweets:



Yeah, the moment I heard Suleiman play that note, I thought "you know that $2B check you get every year? We've decided that's interference in your internal affairs and we're canceling it."

(Though to be fair, that check serves only one purpose -- it's a bribe to make nice with You Know Who.)

I thought the $2B was so we can keep getting to see all of those cool mummy artifacts in our museums on loan from the Cairo Museum.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

I thought the $2B was so we can keep getting to see all of those cool mummy artifacts in our museums on loan from the Cairo Museum.

We shouldn't have given them back. And this, by the way, is why I aint giving the Elgin Marbles back. We stole them fair and square.