UNH Men’s Hockey 22-23: the start of something new, or more of the same?

[Dan]

How have Maine and UVM done with their new coaches? Maybe there are good things to come but no end product yet.

I don’t see a new coach making much difference without other changes. Realistically you’re going to get someone like Ayers, Ellsworth, Dumais or maybe a retread like Dennehey or MacDonald. Do any of those get you hot and bothered?

I want Maine to be good again more than anything, but I understand why they’re not and it has nothing to do with the coach. It’s a poor school in a rural location. Shawn was a once in 1k lifetimes type happening. Those days have come and gone and at this point I think it’s much more productive to be appreciative they happened than be bitter they’re over.

Honestly if Barr could get Maine back to where Red had them in the middle of the pack I’d be happy. At this point I think it’s best realistic case but either way I’ll still watch them and cheer them on. You can’t have everything you want in life.

You think youre telling us about the landscape of college hockey, but youre only telling us about yourself...

College hockey has always been, still is, and always will be a sport where the 'poor, rural school' can and does compete with the P5 school when competence and effort collide. There are more than five candidates for head coaching jobs (there are 124 NCAA DI assistant coaches for starters). You've quit on being a fan, and now youre on some sort of wild crusade to excuse administrators who have done the same. Its obnoxious...

Minnesota State is the most successful school in the State of Hockey. Clarkson is on pace for its 7th 20-win season in the last 10 years. Long time also-rans have dominated the Hockey East landscape for the past several seasons. But tell us more how our lot in life is pre-destined and cannot be changed. Attitude and effort is everything in college sports, and its almost always why losers lose. (more often than not, its a direct result of talking oneself out of deserving to win before they even start the process)...

The rink shrink is the perfect example - it was UNH/Souza announcing to the world that THEY don't believe in the program. So, why would anyone else? If you believe, selling is easy. If you think your school is poor and rural with little to offer - forget about it.

Watcher has mentioned a few candidates - Casey Jones, Bill Muckalt, Dane Jackson, Peter Mannino, Kevin Dean, Jared DiMichel, Anthony Noreen, Fred Harbinson and, yes, Joe Dumais are a few more just off the top of my head. Imagine what a national search could turn up. Talk to these people and see who stands out versus anyone who sells the college hockey landscape the way you do...

And if you're so content with appreciating the old days - why do you spend so much time trying to convince everyone at UNH/UM to stoop to your level? Perhaps youre actually seeking validation for the decision you've made...

 

[Drew S.]

First of all...using that term 'hot and bothered' isn't exactly the frame in which I judge a potential HC and I do not appreciate that comment but whatever. Sure, we oogled David Quinn when he'd pass by us at the 'Whitt heading to the bench...Anyway..I guess for me what IS important is to see measured progress and that has NOT happened at UNH. I got an email from someone who said that it wasn't fair to judge how things are going at UNH because they lost a season 'due to covid' but gee so did everyone else. And a few other 'excuses' about why we aren't doing well and funny they had NOTHING to do with the HC (to your point 'has nothing to do with the coach"- for UNH, its all about that, well at least to some/if not many).

And the names you floated out, how do you know that they would not do a better job? And, as you can see, it doesn't (a rebuild) happen over night. Sorry if I am acting like a spoiled brat expecting to win a few hockey games here and there. I don't think that is asking that much.

Am done discussing this with you now I'm going to listen to the Stones play "You Can't Always Get What you Want" over and over and over.

Sorry for using that term.

I don’t think it’s that a new coach wouldn’t be better, it’s more that I don’t think they would be better in any sort of material way without other changes. Maybe someone like Ayers gets UNH back in the mix for making the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis but that seems very unlikely to me.

One thing that I do want to clarify is that I don’t think you necessarily should keep Souza. My original point in posting was that he likely is doing a better job that you realize and it’s ridiculous for posters(and by no means am I saying you) to say he’s lazy, stealing the money, doesn’t want to win enough, etc. I’m sure it tears him apart UNH isn’t doing better and he would probably do anything in the world to make it happen.

 

[Snively65]

Sorry for using that term.

I don’t think it’s that a new coach wouldn’t be better, it’s more that I don’t think they would be better in any sort of material way without other changes. Maybe someone like Ayers gets UNH back in the mix for making the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis but that seems very unlikely to me.

One thing that I do want to clarify is that I don’t think you necessarily should keep Souza. My original point in posting was that he likely is doing a better job that you realize and it’s ridiculous for posters(and by no means am I saying you) to say he’s lazy, stealing the money, doesn’t want to win enough, etc. I’m sure it tears him apart UNH isn’t doing better and he would probably do anything in the world to make it happen.

No one here said any of that stuff, so please stop projecting.

 

[HockeyRef]

Sorry for using that term.

I don’t think it’s that a new coach wouldn’t be better, it’s more that I don’t think they would be better in any sort of material way without other changes. Maybe someone like Ayers gets UNH back in the mix for making the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis but that seems very unlikely to me.

One thing that I do want to clarify is that I don’t think you necessarily should keep Souza. My original point in posting was that he likely is doing a better job that you realize and it’s ridiculous for posters(and by no means am I saying you) to say he’s lazy, stealing the money, doesn’t want to win enough, etc. I’m sure it tears him apart UNH isn’t doing better and he would probably do anything in the world to make it happen.

Thanks Drew... Well for sure, we all know that Mike Souza bleeds bluer than blue, and that of course he wants the team to win. I'm sure this is frustrating to him that he hasn't been able to gain the ground that he and his staff would like to gain. I don't really know him but have met him on a few occasions, have heard him speak directly to the success he wants UNH to achieve. But I've also heard too many outside excuses about what's wrong with the ice, the locker rooms, why the PP isn't good. Excuses will not win hockey games...

And now we hear just about nothing as pressers aren't released, the media has pretty much given up on the hockey program as it doesn't have the appeal it did have. Still, despite all of that, many dedicated UNH hockey fans make the trek to Durham and hope for the best. Maine fans are going through the same thing although you did have a measure of success when you had Jeremy Swayman so you know its possible. At least if Barr stays on you have a fighting chance in what could be the very near future.

I can't speak for everyone here or the fan base at large but I can tell you that people want him to succeed but patience is growing pretty thin. I'm hopeful the team finds some real positives in the games ahead as this should really be about them in the first place. They will have their hands more than full with BU this weekend and I have no big expectations; hope they play up to their potential and give them a game. We'll see.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Michigan State had tons of systemic and structural reasons for their 15 year lapse.
Until they didn't. They hired a coach with no college HC experience, but a pedigree within USA hockey that players knew and could trust. He also, like every new coach before him - EXCEPT ONE -- had a plan for what players he wanted, so recruited a bunch within his first 6 months. Includes top 06 Humphreys, top goalie Augestine flipped from Michigan, Top BCHLer AJ Lacroix, and now Strbak from BU (which had the "arena" advantage that supposedly is the key). [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD]Maxim Strb?k-RD[/TD]
[TD]11-30-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nathan Mackie-RW[/TD]
[TD]11-03-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A.J. Lacroix-C[/TD]
[TD]09-20-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tommi Mannisto-LW[/TD]
[TD]09-15-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Riley Patterson-C[/TD]
[TD]09-15-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trey Augustine-G[/TD]
[TD]09-06-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Frederic Deschenes-D[/TD]
[TD]09-03-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garin Ludwig-LD[/TD]
[TD]09-02-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Austin Oravitz-RD[/TD]
[TD]08-23-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Isaac Gordon-RW[/TD]
[TD]08-16-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Christian Humphreys-RW[/TD]
[TD]08-16-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Misha Danylov-F[/TD]
[TD]08-05-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lucas Van Vliet-LW[/TD]
[TD]08-01-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Austin Baker-LW[/TD]
[TD]08-01-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Patrick Geary-D[/TD]
[TD]07-16-22[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Dan, a name to add to your list of replacements, Dan Muse, who took over Nightengale's job as HC of the USA U18 team. Won NCAA championship as assistant at Yale (and recruited well for an Ivy), won a USHL championship with Chicago, then was NHL assistant for Nashville past three years before taking over USA job. A Mass guy from Canton, and still only 40 years old
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/79096/dan-muse

 

[NCAA watcher]

Here's "recruiting genius"' first six months after being named successor in waiting, head of recruiting for a HC who gave him carte blanche, who supposedly knew the player market from being head of recruiting for U.Conn.

A local Austin Prep kid, five months late.

11/14/2015

Eric MacAdams

142-20-30-50

What a plan, what a way to announce your presence to the community. What an inspirational statement that the 8th place team you stepped into would be aggressively upgrading talent.
Instead, we hear about what a great family UNH is. Not even a hint of a "type-A" personality that might lead other recruits to take a chance on him -- he couldn't even fake it.

To quote Eminem: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime"

But to be fair,
* it's impossible to fake it when the hockey community doesn't know your name. He recruited for U.Conn, an Atlantic Hockey team, so guys outside of Mass probably never heard of Souza. It's not like Barr walking in and flashing two NCAA rings, and being greeted by BCHL/USHL or Minn HS coaches with a pat of the back. For provincial Mikey, that was confined to a few places in Mass (Austin Prep/Tim Lovell, Bruins alums Sweeney and Sacco)
* Souza never saw this as a rebuild, because the Godfather/uncle who gave him the job could not be failing - letting the program crumble from inattention. With that mindset, your job was only to tinker around and keep steering the ship in the same direction, rather than trying to swerve to avoid the iceberg.

His first year and a half was the following:

1/23/2016	Corson Green	DNP
2/24/2016	Anthony Wyse	136-8-18-26
2/28/2016	Joe Sacco	83-2-4-6
3/26/2016	Lucas Bahn	DNP
4/11/2016	Angus Crookshank	90-35-28-63
5/3/2016	James Miller	2-0-0-0
9/8/2016	Ryan Verrier	115-5-18-23
12/1/2016	Marek Wazny	DNP

So yes, Drew S, not all hungry first year coaches willing to start slightly below market are the same. Even at that price point, you can still be the worst of the options if they lack credibility and the dispassion/analytic skills to see what is necessary.

​​

 

[Chuck Murray]

Gosh, it's been a long time since the UNH faithful have been this united about something pertaining to the program.

Just sayin' ...

 

[chickod]

The Rosa has been closed and re-opened a couple of times in the last decade or so. Haven't been there for a while personally, so I won't judge. Then again, Molly Malone's has been closed for longer than that. Seems Coach Umile's choice of legacy dining establishments hasn't worked out that great recently either ... ;-)

Still liked it the best when it was a "family" restaurant and Jerry (who I believe, sadly, passed away) was the manager...oh but to lament the "old days." After the Martingale Wharf owners (now part of "River Wharf Hospitality" along with another restaurant, "Sol") bought it I wasn't very happy with it (not to mention their adding fennel to the sauce). I haven't been to the latest iteration...will try next time I'm up in the area

 

[chickod]

My original point in posting was that he likely is doing a better job that you realize and it’s ridiculous for posters(and by no means am I saying you) to say he’s lazy, stealing the money, doesn’t want to win enough, etc. I’m sure it tears him apart UNH isn’t doing better and he would probably do anything in the world to make it happen.

Aren't you glad you commented? Careful, you might get canceled for hurting feelings... (I would insert an emoji here but apparently they don't work on the "revamped" site) Oh, and I bet you didn't know you were "projecting." Kind of like those signs all over the front lawns in Massachusetts, "Hate Has No Home Here," which are 100% displayed by the haters...

 

[deltabravo62]

Aren't you glad you commented? Careful, you might get canceled for hurting feelings... (I would insert an emoji here but apparently they don't work on the "revamped" site) Oh, and I bet you didn't know you were "projecting." Kind of like those signs all over the front lawns in Massachusetts, "Hate Has No Home Here," which are 100% displayed by the haters...

Do you feel better now that you got that off your chest?

 

[HockeyRef]

Do you feel better now that you got that off your chest?

Oh I surely hope so...we wouldn't want any hurt feelings around here...

 

[NCAA watcher]

She sounds perpetually offended, so this thread may not be for her.

 

[Drew S.]

Aren't you glad you commented? Careful, you might get canceled for hurting feelings... (I would insert an emoji here but apparently they don't work on the "revamped" site) Oh, and I bet you didn't know you were "projecting." Kind of like those signs all over the front lawns in Massachusetts, "Hate Has No Home Here," which are 100% displayed by the haters...

Being cancelled by a BU fan on a UNH thread is the fate I deserve.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Being cancelled by a BU fan on a UNH thread is the fate I deserve.

Can't tell if you're being serious, because the new board won't allow emojis.

 

[Darius]

Yeah, I was the one defending it.

I'm right behind you, quoted the most recent of the mini-thread.

 

[Darius]

No one here said any of that stuff, so please stop projecting.

Maybe not in those exact words...

 

[Darius]

Still liked it the best when it was a "family" restaurant and Jerry (who I believe, sadly, passed away) was the manager...oh but to lament the "old days." After the Martingale Wharf owners (now part of "River Wharf Hospitality" along with another restaurant, "Sol") bought it I wasn't very happy with it (not to mention their adding fennel to the sauce). I haven't been to the latest iteration...will try next time I'm up in the area

From a man who knows his Italian restaurants!

 

[Darius]

Can't tell if you're being serious, because the new board won't allow emojis.

No way. Too funny.

 

[Snively65]

So now we are blaming lack of one-click emoji’s for everything that is wrong here? We can make our own creative emoji’s, which is not hard to do.

 

[Dan]

Maybe not in those exact words...

Who cares what the reason is...

11-20-6 / 4-12-6 (10th)
15-20-5 / 7-10-4 (10th)
10-20-6 / 5-14-5 (11th)
--
12-15-9 / 8-10-6 (8th)
15-15-4 / 9-12-3 (9th)
6-14-3 / 5-13-3 (10th)
14-19-1 / 8-15-1 (9th)
3-11-1 / 0-9-1 (12th)

Total: 86-116-35
Total % of Games Lost: 56.33

Hockey East: 39-59-14
HE % of games lost: 58.93

Average Finish: 9.875th out of 12 !!

...he has been unable to do the job.


--


Apologies to his loved ones if posting his RESUME is too mean spirited.

Maybe this will help...

86-116-35-237 (W-L-T-Tried Hard)


--


But what this thread definitely needed was BU fan - who, after moaning for four seasons to replace a coach who won 54% of his games (including 60%) of his HE games, because they deserved better - coming through to insinuate that we are not allowed to hope for more than 44%/41%.

The idea that disagreeing with that insinuation is 'cancelling' is an entirely different set of present day irony...