UNH Men’s Hockey 22-23: the start of something new, or more of the same?

[Snively65]

We can only pray that this notice was given, and there is some understanding in place to restructure it-- that he will finish the year, but be paid to November. Again, grasping at straws, but maybe his is what prompted his comments last week that he will continue to work to fix this.



My hopes have been off so far, so I'm probably wrong on this as well, but hope springs eternal - otherwise we would not survive the Souza debacle.

You should not beat up yourself over this debacle, watcher. I was outspoken for the Jumbotron before I was against the Jumbotron.

 

[Dan]

If Souza's salary is only $240,000 - I don't even want to hear about a prohibitive buyout. That is not a significant amount of money, even in the state of New Hampshire or at UNH. Certainly, allowing your flagship athletic program to wither away and die on the vine costs FAR more...

A full Whittemore Center Arena would generate that much revenue in a weekend series on ticket sales alone. And in the state of New Hampshire - and at UNH - I honestly and truly do not believe it would take much more than hope and enthusiasm to start filling the seats on a regular basis once again. Refusing a buyout of that size is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Refusing to spend a nickel to make a dime.

--

Scarano dug the program a deeper hole by offering this extension - it was selfish, both in rationalizing his initial decision and in taking care of a friend to the detriment of the program. I think the best response by UNH fans is to be honest about what they see/feel and to force the university's hands by speaking with their own check books. Make UNH's financial decision easier - don't show up - and make buying out Souza the more affordable option.

UNH can't abide by a program that loses out and plays in an empty arena. That's what we should hope for and that's how we should respond if change is our goal. Its a bummer for the current student-athletes who deserve better, but that is on administration not the fans...

--

When the change is made, an extensive search can unearth a winner at 240k - even better if the school commits to a salary above 300k (which they certainly can). Enough excuses. Enough resting on the laurels of a winning soccer program and a so-so football team. The administration has a chance to build a comprehensive athletic department - good soccer (M & W), good football, good gymnastics, good volleyball, invest in flagship programs with coaching changes in M & W Hockey and then you can worry about the dumpster fire you've created in M & W Hoops and suddenly you have a successful athletic department that is fitting for the state that supports it at a higher level than they currently deserve...

 

[deltabravo62]

If Souza's salary is only $240,000 - I don't even want to hear about a prohibitive buyout. That is not a significant amount of money, even in the state of New Hampshire or at UNH. Certainly, allowing your flagship athletic program to wither away and die on the vine costs FAR more...

A full Whittemore Center Arena would generate that much revenue in a weekend series on ticket sales alone. And in the state of New Hampshire - and at UNH - I honestly and truly do not believe it would take much more than hope and enthusiasm to start filling the seats on a regular basis once again. Refusing a buyout of that size is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Refusing to spend a nickel to make a dime.

--

Scarano dug the program a deeper hole by offering this extension - it was selfish, both in rationalizing his initial decision and in taking care of a friend to the detriment of the program. I think the best response by UNH fans is to be honest about what they see/feel and to force the university's hands by speaking with their own check books. Make UNH's financial decision easier - don't show up - and make buying out Souza the more affordable option.

UNH can't abide by a program that loses out and plays in an empty arena. That's what we should hope for and that's how we should respond if change is our goal. Its a bummer for the current student-athletes who deserve better, but that is on administration not the fans...

--

When the change is made, an extensive search can unearth a winner at 240k - even better if the school commits to a salary above 300k (which they certainly can). Enough excuses. Enough resting on the laurels of a winning soccer program and a so-so football team. The administration has a chance to build a comprehensive athletic department - good soccer (M & W), good football, good gymnastics, good volleyball, invest in flagship programs with coaching changes in M & W Hockey and then you can worry about the dumpster fire you've created in M & W Hoops and suddenly you have a successful athletic department that is fitting for the state that supports it at a higher level than they currently deserve...

∆ This...

 

[Dan]

I think you and others are being unrealistic(same as Maine fans) but certainly respect you being able to have your own opinion.

I need you to mow my lawn - and I can only offer you $10 and a push mower. Others are offering $20 and a riding lawn mower. Does that mean I can't expect you to put in the effort - or have the ability - to cut my grass evenly and neatly? Prove you can do a good job and then we can have a conversation about how you could more efficiently and effectively handle the job. Show up late, miss patches and whine the whole time about what you don't have and your services will no longer be needed...

UNH has all it needs for hockey to be competitive. What it doesn't have is the right attitude, the right level of (relative) effort or any level of accountability - Maine at least has those three in Coach Barr. Others could win at UNH, now. Souza cannot. He must go. When the next coach exhibits acumen, I will be leading the charge when it comes to encouraging and participating in program investment. Until then, they can spare me the sob stories about budgets...

I manage my own salary and budgets - they could pay me more and they could have easily paid me less; Either way, I am who I am - and I'll give it everything. Ill win or put my head through the wall trying - making zero excuses along the way.

 

[Snively65]

If Souza's salary is only $240,000 - I don't even want to hear about a prohibitive buyout. That is not a significant amount of money, even in the state of New Hampshire or at UNH. Certainly, allowing your flagship athletic program to wither away and die on the vine costs FAR more...

A full Whittemore Center Arena would generate that much revenue in a weekend series on ticket sales alone. And in the state of New Hampshire - and at UNH - I honestly and truly do not believe it would take much more than hope and enthusiasm to start filling the seats on a regular basis once again. Refusing a buyout of that size is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Refusing to spend a nickel to make a dime.

--

Scarano dug the program a deeper hole by offering this extension - it was selfish, both in rationalizing his initial decision and in taking care of a friend to the detriment of the program. I think the best response by UNH fans is to be honest about what they see/feel and to force the university's hands by speaking with their own check books. Make UNH's financial decision easier - don't show up - and make buying out Souza the more affordable option.

UNH can't abide by a program that loses out and plays in an empty arena. That's what we should hope for and that's how we should respond if change is our goal. Its a bummer for the current student-athletes who deserve better, but that is on administration not the fans...

--

When the change is made, an extensive search can unearth a winner at 240k - even better if the school commits to a salary above 300k (which they certainly can). Enough excuses. Enough resting on the laurels of a winning soccer program and a so-so football team. The administration has a chance to build a comprehensive athletic department - good soccer (M & W), good football, good gymnastics, good volleyball, invest in flagship programs with coaching changes in M & W Hockey and then you can worry about the dumpster fire you've created in M & W Hoops and suddenly you have a successful athletic department that is fitting for the state that supports it at a higher level than they currently deserve...

Agreed with almost everything in this post, except that 3000+ fans already have spoken by no longer buying tickets, for several years now, and that apparently has not fazed the UNH athletic department or admin. Your math is almost spot on, but it would take about four games with those additional 3000 fans returning to the Whitt to make up the $240k buy out (12,000 fans times $20 average ticket price; example seniors only pay $12). Or, just increase by 1500 fans in each of the last eight home games. Maybe make a public announcement that all excess proceeds beyond the STH’s, who already have been robbed, will go to the buyout.

 

[Drew S.]

I need you to mow my lawn - and I can only offer you $10 and a push mower. Others are offering $20 and a riding lawn mower. Does that mean I can't expect you to put in the effort - or have the ability - to cut my grass evenly and neatly? Prove you can do a good job and then we can have a conversation about how you could more efficiently and effectively handle the job. Show up late, miss patches and whine the whole time about what you don't have and your services will no longer be needed...

UNH has all it needs for hockey to be competitive. What it doesn't have is the right attitude, the right level of (relative) effort or any level of accountability - Maine at least has those three in Coach Barr. Others could win at UNH, now. Souza cannot. He must go. When the next coach exhibits acumen, I will be leading the charge when it comes to encouraging and participating in program investment. Until then, they can spare me the sob stories about budgets...

I manage my own salary and budgets - they could pay me more and they could have easily paid me less; Either way, I am who I am - and I'll give it everything. Ill win or put my head through the wall trying - making zero excuses along the way.

If you pay half the market rate you’re probably going to get someone unreliable who doesn’t do a great job.

 

[Darius]

If you pay half the market rate you’re probably going to get someone unreliable who doesn’t do a great job.

Glad to see y'all agree. Fortunately Dan's lawn sucks so the job quality won't be noticed ;-)

 

[Dan]

If you pay half the market rate you’re probably going to get someone unreliable who doesn’t do a great job.

And I can settle for that excuse to rationalize and wallow in my own self-pity or I can do the work to find someone reliable, considering the candidate pool absolutely exists and my lawn is one of only 60 lawns available to mow...

Additionally, while less than $20, my $10 rate is also a strong rate and a potential stepping stone to a $20 gig or a raise.

Athletic Departments can make excuses or make investments (time, attitude, effort and, yes eventually, money). UNH has not even made the effort to find someone reliable. Trying and failing is a whole lot better than the indifference and acceptance they have exhibited, and you preach. We'll never see eye to eye on mailing in a bad attitude and a bad effort, simply because the circumstances are challenging, so be it...

Gendron's circumstances are tragic. However, I do think Maine would have moved on and taken their shot with Barr - there is plenty of nobility, respect and enthusiasm in effort alone. Less so for 'nepotism' on the road to one's own retirement...

 

[Dan]

Agreed with almost everything in this post, except that 3000+ fans already have spoken by no longer buying tickets, for several years now, and that apparently has not fazed the UNH athletic department or admin. Your math is almost spot on, but it would take about four games with those additional 3000 fans returning to the Whitt to make up the $240k buy out (12,000 fans times $20 average ticket price; example seniors only pay $12). Or, just increase by 1500 fans in each of the last eight home games. Maybe make a public announcement that all excess proceeds beyond the STH’s, who already have been robbed, will go to the buyout.

In my scenario that segment of the non-buying fanbase continues to grow, dramatically.

 

[Drew S.]

And I can settle for that excuse to rationalize and wallow in my own self-pity or I can do the work to find someone reliable, considering the candidate pool absolutely exists and my lawn is one of only 60 lawns available to mow...

Additionally, while less than $20, my $10 rate is also a strong rate and a potential stepping stone to a $20 gig or a raise.

Athletic Departments can make excuses or make investments (time, attitude, effort and, yes eventually, money). UNH has not even made the effort to find someone reliable. Trying and failing is a whole lot better than the indifference and acceptance they have exhibited, and you preach. We'll never see eye to eye on mailing in a bad attitude and a bad effort, simply because the circumstances are challenging, so be it...

Gendron's circumstances are tragic. However, I do think Maine would have moved on and taken their shot with Barr - there is plenty of nobility in effort alone. Less in 'nepotism' on the road to one's own retirement...

It all comes down to the efficiency of the market. You certainly have a right to search high and low for someone to meet your price and do a good job but it doesn’t mean you are going to find them.

 

[HockeyRef]

It all comes down to the efficiency of the market. You certainly have a right to search high and low for someone to meet your price and do a good job but it doesn’t mean you are going to find them.

So Drew since you are a fairly plugged in fan...do you honestly think UNH can't do any better than what we have now? Both Maine and UVM snagged decent up and coming HC's with a far better track record than Mike Souza....surely UNH can do the same. Whatever at this point...we are stuck with him.

But the Teddy bear toss sounds fun during the ASU game...

 

[deltabravo62]

It all comes down to the efficiency of the market. You certainly have a right to search high and low for someone to meet your price and do a good job but it doesn’t mean you are going to find them.

Well we are asking UNH to actually look for this person. Not just continue with the anointed one that was presented to them at the main table in a seedy Italian restaurant back in 2015. At least your school has tried to find that person in their turnover at the head coach position.

 

[Darius]

Well we are asking UNH to actually look for this person. Not just continue with the anointed one that was presented to them at the main table in a seedy Italian restaurant back in 2015. At least your school has tried to find that person in their turnover at the head coach position.

?

 

[d.gerry]

Well we are asking UNH to actually look for this person. Not just continue with the anointed one that was presented to them at the main table in a seedy Italian restaurant back in 2015. At least your school has tried to find that person in their turnover at the head coach position.

Actually the Rosa was a pretty good restaurant back in those days! Haven't been in years, so can't comment on today.

 

[Darius]

Actually the Rosa was a pretty good restaurant back in those days! Haven't been in years, so can't comment on today.

I walked in about a year ago after work hoping to grab a quick bite before a show. It was packed. Not even a bar seat. Nice atmosphere. Let’s not drag a fine dining establishment into this.

 

[Drew S.]

So Drew since you are a fairly plugged in fan...do you honestly think UNH can't do any better than what we have now? Both Maine and UVM snagged decent up and coming HC's with a far better track record than Mike Souza....surely UNH can do the same. Whatever at this point...we are stuck with him.

But the Teddy bear toss sounds fun during the ASU game...

How have Maine and UVM done with their new coaches? Maybe there are good things to come but no end product yet.

I don’t see a new coach making much difference without other changes. Realistically you’re going to get someone like Ayers, Ellsworth, Dumais or maybe a retread like Dennehey or MacDonald. Do any of those get you hot and bothered?

I want Maine to be good again more than anything, but I understand why they’re not and it has nothing to do with the coach. It’s a poor school in a rural location. Shawn was a once in 1k lifetimes type happening. Those days have come and gone and at this point I think it’s much more productive to be appreciative they happened than be bitter they’re over.

Honestly if Barr could get Maine back to where Red had them in the middle of the pack I’d be happy. At this point I think it’s best realistic case but either way I’ll still watch them and cheer them on. You can’t have everything you want in life.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I walked in about a year ago after work hoping to grab a quick bite before a show. It was packed. Not even a bar seat. Nice atmosphere. Let's not drag a fine dining establishment into this.

The Rosa has been closed and re-opened a couple of times in the last decade or so. Haven't been there for a while personally, so I won't judge. Then again, Molly Malone's has been closed for longer than that. Seems Coach Umile's choice of legacy dining establishments hasn't worked out that great recently either ... ;-)

 

[HockeyRef]

How have Maine and UVM done with their new coaches? Maybe there are good things to come but no end product yet.

I don’t see a new coach making much difference without other changes. Realistically you’re going to get someone like Ayers, Ellsworth, Dumais or maybe a retread like Dennehey or MacDonald. Do any of those get you hot and bothered?

I want Maine to be good again more than anything, but I understand why they’re not and it has nothing to do with the coach. It’s a poor school in a rural location. Shawn was a once in 1k lifetimes type happening. Those days have come and gone and at this point I think it’s much more productive to be appreciative they happened than be bitter they’re over.

Honestly if Barr could get Maine back to where Red had them in the middle of the pack I’d be happy. At this point I think it’s best realistic case but either way I’ll still watch them and cheer them on. You can’t have everything you want in life.

First of all...using that term 'hot and bothered' isn't exactly the frame in which I judge a potential HC and I do not appreciate that comment but whatever. Sure, we oogled David Quinn when he'd pass by us at the 'Whitt heading to the bench...Anyway..I guess for me what IS important is to see measured progress and that has NOT happened at UNH. I got an email from someone who said that it wasn't fair to judge how things are going at UNH because they lost a season 'due to covid' but gee so did everyone else. And a few other 'excuses' about why we aren't doing well and funny they had NOTHING to do with the HC (to your point 'has nothing to do with the coach"- for UNH, its all about that, well at least to some/if not many).

And the names you floated out, how do you know that they would not do a better job? And, as you can see, it doesn't (a rebuild) happen over night. Sorry if I am acting like a spoiled brat expecting to win a few hockey games here and there. I don't think that is asking that much.

Am done discussing this with you now I'm going to listen to the Stones play "You Can't Always Get What you Want" over and over and over.

 

[d.gerry]

I walked in about a year ago after work hoping to grab a quick bite before a show. It was packed. Not even a bar seat. Nice atmosphere. Let’s not drag a fine dining establishment into this.

Yeah, I was the one defending it.

 

[deltabravo62]

How have Maine and UVM done with their new coaches? Maybe there are good things to come but no end product yet.

I don’t see a new coach making much difference without other changes. Realistically you’re going to get someone like Ayers, Ellsworth, Dumais or maybe a retread like Dennehey or MacDonald. Do any of those get you hot and bothered?

I want Maine to be good again more than anything, but I understand why they’re not and it has nothing to do with the coach. It’s a poor school in a rural location. Shawn was a once in 1k lifetimes type happening. Those days have come and gone and at this point I think it’s much more productive to be appreciative they happened than be bitter they’re over.

Honestly if Barr could get Maine back to where Red had them in the middle of the pack I’d be happy. At this point I think it’s best realistic case but either way I’ll still watch them and cheer them on. You can’t have everything you want in life.

Well, my team hasn't looked outside their own window for anything new in over 30 years. With that the playbook of Umile and then Souza has led us straight into the cesspool. Maybe the next guy isn't the answer, and maybe the guy after that won't be the answer. But here's a headline for you, the current guy hasn't sniffed anything close to success in 8 years in this program. If failure without even questioning the process is good enough with you, keep that attitude in Orono. No one here is asking for an immediate return to the top ranks of this league with some miracle hire. We want to see some form of growth and a build towards something competitive. Accepting 8 years of constant regression without resistance is not something you're going to see out of this fan base. Maybe I can't always get what I want, doesn't mean I'm just going to give up on it. If you can't handle a group of fans who vocally want better for their team, this teams board is going to disappoint you heavily.

Maybe the head coach isn't the only problem, but he clearly hasn't made himself part of the solution either.