HockeyRef
Well-known member
oh, I was under the impression it was last year not this, so now I'm even more bummed about it.
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UNH Men’s Hockey 22-23: the start of something new, or more of the same?
- Thread starter d.gerry
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oh, I was under the impression it was last year not this, so now I'm even more bummed about it.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Yes, God forbid, the brand-new AD would have had almost a full year to plan for the renewal or replacement of the Men's head hockey coach, we wouldn't want to force her to actually, y'know ... like, do her job or something. Give Blue Skies an inch, and he'll take a year, especially if he can take care of a fellow paisan. Mamma mia indeed ...
So ... now that db62 has gotten to the bottom of the contractual situation, 'Watcher ... what's the solution now? Wait 'til 2024?? Heck, we can let this go on for a few more years after, and in no time, we'll be able to do that "NH Beanpot" thing I've been pushing on here for way too long, except instead of being embarrassed by some close calls against St. A's, SNHU or Plymouth State, we can avoid embarrassment by entering the competition as underdogs?!? I mean, Babson, UAH AND Holy frickin' Cross, guys ... we're practically almost there already, aren't we???
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Yep, that threashold I was referring to...just got alot worse? I guess I better get to the 'acceptance' phase, and right quick.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Nope. UNH needs to press him to leave of his own accord, perhaps with a lesser negotiated buyout. Heck, this is the school that dug very deep to create some fictitious basis to can Coach McCloskey not all that long ago, and he was actually still winning some games back then, with a fresh renewal of his contract to boot. Maybe MS7 will ham-handedly misgender one of the UNH admins, and presto bingo - WE HAVE CAUSE!!! ;-)
For the record, the above comment is pointed at the previous AD and the other gutless high level UNH admins who let that farce happen, I would not wish that handling on my worst enemy. And MS7 isn't even close to my enemy, he's just in way over his head, and needs to be moved on. It can't be good for his health, to have his professional shortcomings exposed in public twice weekly, once on average in front of friends and family. He may even welcome it at this point, as there's no indication this is getting better any time soon ... unless I've missed CHC's latest about next year's incoming stud-laden Class of '27?!? I mean, don't we owe C-H-C the opportunity to actually do his recruiting beat hobby involving some top-notch prospects, like he used to experience regularly, and actually enjoy doing it with the idea some of these incoming kids can make a big difference in restoring a winning program? Making these portal "gets" from Babson and Alabama Huntsville seem compelling has to be a rough gig ... one can only wonder what college hockey netherlands will feature next if/when MS7 is allowed another dip into the portal. Rivier? Brandeis?? Emerson???
Resign, please.
From what I can find, the 2017 salary was $108,700 with him being announced in March 2018 that he was head coach. Thinking this through, it is likely the HC stuff began with the state fiscal year
2018-2019 Year 1
2019-2020 Year 2
2021-2022 Year 3 signs extension for 2 years
2022-2023 Year 1 extension
2023-2024 last year of extention
I would not be surprised he has a year left after this year. 2 contracts = 5 years
So with all the contract talk and how irrelevant the program has become in the state, we have 2 more league games this weekend. At this point is Libby's and hopes that the restocked my beer Friday night as expectations are low.
I do think UNH busts open the offense Friday, tying the season high with 2 goals in league play. The unfortunate part is they give up 6, losing 6-2 to extend the winless streak to 10 games.
Saturday the offensive woes continue, losing 4-1 as BU probably plays their back up goalie knowing Goldberg from the Mighty Ducks could win a game.
The question of the week though is, I can buy 3 tickets at $23 for a total of $69. But I can do the Me+3 getting 4 tickets for $69. May just go that route to prevent anyone sitting next to me.....
I do think UNH busts open the offense Friday, tying the season high with 2 goals in league play. The unfortunate part is they give up 6, losing 6-2 to extend the winless streak to 10 games.
Saturday the offensive woes continue, losing 4-1 as BU probably plays their back up goalie knowing Goldberg from the Mighty Ducks could win a game.
The question of the week though is, I can buy 3 tickets at $23 for a total of $69. But I can do the Me+3 getting 4 tickets for $69. May just go that route to prevent anyone sitting next to me.....
So if the attendance is recorded as 6501, we will know that it was really only 6500 if you buy the four for price of three deal.
And please do not slip a hyphen into ‘resign.’
deltabravo62
Active member
In 2018 he signed for 5 years, after year 4 (last season) the extension was signed to add year 6.
Per the contract if UNH was to move on from him it would be more fiscally beneficial to UNH to do so now as opposed to after this season.
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NCAA watcher
Registered User
First and foremost, a huge thank you DeltaBravo for your work in getting answers.
Second, I assumed Marty was stupid and deferential, but this smacks of malice. Going out the door, saddling your successor with your mistake and handcuffing her from making her own decision. President Dean, did you know of this? It's kind of sad to say the President should have watched the AD on his way out the door because he couldn't be trusted, but that's what it looks like now. How does any person not motivated by greed look at the miserable results in 7 years, and say "I need to reward you with a two year extension"? That's like Dombrowski giving Pablo Sandoval a two year extension. I can certainly understand Borek's joy at beating UNH each year. I apologize for minimizing your gripes out the door about how screwed up the team and AD were and how you were the only competent one running the ship. Results have proven you far more right than we could have imagined.
Third, AD Rich is now mostly off the hook -- her hands are pretty much tied unless the outs in the contract provide some leeway.
The Granato discussion focused on buyout clauses allowing the school to offset their payout if the coach finds a new job. Souza, at 240K, won't find that again, but might be able to find a job at 50, so the buyout would be reduced to 190K or so. Can they structure the new coach so the actual yearly cash flow is minimally impacted -- lower in 2023-24, then higher in subsequent years. Not the greatest way to entice competent coaches. Let's hope AD Rich negotiated enough of a budget to do the needed buyout. If they can waste millions on narrowing the rink to "help" the program, shouldn't the $200K buyout be money far better spent?
And finally, this is on Souza, too. If he truly loves the University as he says, he should resign. But if this is all about money, then he'll hang on for every last cent. Or, more likely, he's a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, in which incompetent people lack the ability to see their own incompetence:
I wonder if AD Rich can help Souza see what's best by making it clear to Souza that he's never getting renewed after 2024, that the U will only minimally support him (is he contractually entitled to two assistants? If we're going to suck in 2023-24, maybe he should do it all because the U needs to save money for a real coach in 2024. And why recruit, if the players may well go elsewhere when the coaching change happens.)
And if Mike Souza hangs on just for the money, I'm all for making it clear to him what the community thinks. My prior pleas for compassion toward him during the fait acompli last 3 months has changed once I saw this is not the end.
And Scarano should never be permitted back on the campus without jeering at every moment. For all the talk about "loving the university," for him and Umile it was always about getting your's first at the expense of the University. Let's see if Souza is cut from the same cloth.
Second, I assumed Marty was stupid and deferential, but this smacks of malice. Going out the door, saddling your successor with your mistake and handcuffing her from making her own decision. President Dean, did you know of this? It's kind of sad to say the President should have watched the AD on his way out the door because he couldn't be trusted, but that's what it looks like now. How does any person not motivated by greed look at the miserable results in 7 years, and say "I need to reward you with a two year extension"? That's like Dombrowski giving Pablo Sandoval a two year extension. I can certainly understand Borek's joy at beating UNH each year. I apologize for minimizing your gripes out the door about how screwed up the team and AD were and how you were the only competent one running the ship. Results have proven you far more right than we could have imagined.
Third, AD Rich is now mostly off the hook -- her hands are pretty much tied unless the outs in the contract provide some leeway.
The Granato discussion focused on buyout clauses allowing the school to offset their payout if the coach finds a new job. Souza, at 240K, won't find that again, but might be able to find a job at 50, so the buyout would be reduced to 190K or so. Can they structure the new coach so the actual yearly cash flow is minimally impacted -- lower in 2023-24, then higher in subsequent years. Not the greatest way to entice competent coaches. Let's hope AD Rich negotiated enough of a budget to do the needed buyout. If they can waste millions on narrowing the rink to "help" the program, shouldn't the $200K buyout be money far better spent?
And finally, this is on Souza, too. If he truly loves the University as he says, he should resign. But if this is all about money, then he'll hang on for every last cent. Or, more likely, he's a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, in which incompetent people lack the ability to see their own incompetence:
I wonder if AD Rich can help Souza see what's best by making it clear to Souza that he's never getting renewed after 2024, that the U will only minimally support him (is he contractually entitled to two assistants? If we're going to suck in 2023-24, maybe he should do it all because the U needs to save money for a real coach in 2024. And why recruit, if the players may well go elsewhere when the coaching change happens.)
And if Mike Souza hangs on just for the money, I'm all for making it clear to him what the community thinks. My prior pleas for compassion toward him during the fait acompli last 3 months has changed once I saw this is not the end.
And Scarano should never be permitted back on the campus without jeering at every moment. For all the talk about "loving the university," for him and Umile it was always about getting your's first at the expense of the University. Let's see if Souza is cut from the same cloth.
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NCAA watcher
Registered User
On November 5th I wrote:
I guess I was wrong. That's exactly what Marty did. Actually, he did worse, because the contract did not even come up in 2022, it still had another year to go, but Marty decided to grab the cash for his friends one last time at the U's expense.
I guess I was wrong. That's exactly what Marty did. Actually, he did worse, because the contract did not even come up in 2022, it still had another year to go, but Marty decided to grab the cash for his friends one last time at the U's expense.
We already know that Souza is cut from the same cloth, which is why he was hired in a corrupt inappropriate manner in the first place. All grifters.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Now I'm sorry I deleted my post about how all of this was done on the down low....and for a reason. Just give me one more chance to show I can fix this...Who knows the exact way it all went down. Funny...its almost as if DU wanted someone who would never eclipse his success and by golly he did...
I sincerely doubt Souza steps down on his own. He truly believes once he gets his locker rooms and student lounges etc in place all of his recruiting woes are over. 'Specially since he got the ice reduced he is on a roll baby! Many, many people, including myself, want (ed) so badly for him to make it, to be a success. Just has not worked out and that is that! Just draws out the time that will be LOST for any type of successful rebuild allowing this to continue for ONE MORE season after this one.
Like I said when your horse is dead you should dismount but in this case? This screams of "just put a new a new saddle on it" and plow ahead regardless of the result. Scares me to think of how one more year of this (or beyond I mean you have to know / steel yourself that this is a more than likely not going to change?) will further erode this once proud program.
As if it's not already too late...
Ps sorry I had alot of snark for breakfast..
I sincerely doubt Souza steps down on his own. He truly believes once he gets his locker rooms and student lounges etc in place all of his recruiting woes are over. 'Specially since he got the ice reduced he is on a roll baby! Many, many people, including myself, want (ed) so badly for him to make it, to be a success. Just has not worked out and that is that! Just draws out the time that will be LOST for any type of successful rebuild allowing this to continue for ONE MORE season after this one.
Like I said when your horse is dead you should dismount but in this case? This screams of "just put a new a new saddle on it" and plow ahead regardless of the result. Scares me to think of how one more year of this (or beyond I mean you have to know / steel yourself that this is a more than likely not going to change?) will further erode this once proud program.
As if it's not already too late...
Ps sorry I had alot of snark for breakfast..
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
UNH of course! No, did not attend but I did burn some sage prior to the start on the directive of Sonar... At the banquet that season, DU said "that game was weird". Yeah, sure was. Significance? It was the last HE championship game UNH played in? We did make it to the Garden the following season. Also, CDS last season with the 'Cats? TvR was injured and did not play/ending his tenure with the 'Cats soon after? Kevin Goumas' last stand (haha had to throw that in) I still have the Concord Monitor newspaper story from that game..discusses TvR's departure as well as the loss.
Is it fair to expect Souza to do as good of a job as Leaman when he is paid 1/4 as much? None of us like it but Maine, UNH, and UVM are the ***** teams in hockey east now. You can hire and fire coaches until the cows come home but that won’t change the underlying issues.
As far as significance goes it was the last time UNH hockey finished a season with a winning record. Also I believe it was the last game at UNH for AC Tortorella
HockeyRef
Well-known member
The short answer to your question? YES. I do expect him to do as good a job. We are talking about a DI NCAA hockey program. The underlying issue at UNH IS THE COACH. Not the ice, not the dated locker rooms, not the lack of fancy player suites. Sure, I'd agree to attract someone like Nate Leaman away from a program like PC who pays twice the money (or whatever that amount is) is a challenge, but, regardless of who the coach is, they are either doing the job to bring in quality players, and to coach them to do what they need to do, should not change regardless of the paycheck. Period. Don't sell your program short...you got a coach now who seems to get it. No telling how long he's gonna last, but for now, he's there. Same goes for UVM.
Others may see this differently. (oh, and even in my limited experience with this stuff, I do understand the landscape of college hockey has changed so I don't need a lesson on that).
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Apples and oranges, Drew. I have no idea what Leaman was making at PC when he was hired a decade-plus ago, but he'd already established himself as HC at Union as a back-to-back ECAC COTY winner, and a national COTY (Penrose) in 2011. Then he won a national title in 2015 for PC so to say he's earned multiple extensions to stay at PC would be an understatement. Souza hasn't even come close to approaching any of that.
Your current coach is going to be just fine, UMaine is on the road back, it may not go as quickly as you'd like, and the big question will probably be whether UMaine ponies up when Barr gets the ship righted (or if Barr decides to stay put with his young family)?
The "underlying issue" is competency, plain and simple. Remember where PC was pre-Leaman? UMaine was before Walshy? UMass Amherst before Carvel, or UMass Lowell before Bazin?? Are you saying that Souza would be a better coach if he were earning a million dollars a year???
I don’t think Souza would be a better coach if he was paid more, but I do think a coach’s salary is a bellwether for a school/program’s overall resources. If UNH could pay him 3 or 4x more than he makes now they would have resources for other things that would make a difference.
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