UNH Hockey 2023-2024 Season Thread - End Of The Cellar-Dweller Era??

[teez]

If UNH extends Souza they cement themselves in the UVM tier in HE. Please know that every season going forward a return to what once was gets more and more unlikely. Under Souza Providence and UMass have eclipsed UNH's historical achievements, and a case could be made that Lowell and Northeastern have as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Sneddon

The link above (scroll down to head coaching record specifically UVM from 05-20) serves as a cautionary tale of what to expect if Souza sticks around. Sadly though, Sneddon's achievements in his first six seasons dwarf Souza's. I appreciate the optimism that the new recruits will turn around the program. If only this were the NBA where talent > coaching, but it's college hockey and a bad coach is a big problem.

There's an old British expat term from the colonial days, a "Whenwe" - one that talks nostalgically about a former home or life of status that no longer exists and harkens back to the 'better' days

I'm glad we have those days to remember, they were fun

 

[HockeyRef]

If UNH extends Souza they cement themselves in the UVM tier in HE. Please know that every season going forward a return to what once was gets more and more unlikely. Under Souza Providence and UMass have eclipsed UNH's historical achievements, and a case could be made that Lowell and Northeastern have as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Sneddon

The link above (scroll down to head coaching record specifically UVM from 05-20) serves as a cautionary tale of what to expect if Souza sticks around. Sadly though, Sneddon's achievements in his first six seasons dwarf Souza's. I appreciate the optimism that the new recruits will turn around the program. If only this were the NBA where talent > coaching, but it's college hockey and a bad coach is a big problem.

There's an old British expat term from the colonial days, a "Whenwe" - one that talks nostalgically about a former home or life of status that no longer exists and harkens back to the 'better' days

I'm glad we have those days to remember, they were fun

+1

Speaking of UVM I found a 2015 HE semi final poster cleaning out a closet which featured UNH UVM UML BU...for me this is my "Whenwe".

 

[TwoStep93]

Excellent points about the importance of continuity...looks like strong recruits coming in the next two seasons as well...strong core remaining.

Keep coming back! I for one need a perspective check
from time to time!

I certainly will! The ‘Cats are very close to the center for me. Core memories from my upbringing that provide me with an unadulterated passion for the program and college hockey. Hard to find the same soul in most professional sports anymore.

Love reading what everyone has to say on here - always a great temperature read. Not many UNH Hockey fans in Wyoming…

 

[Sparkee]

+1

Speaking of UVM I found a 2015 HE semi final poster cleaning out a closet which featured UNH UVM UML BU...for me this is my "Whenwe".

Seems like a high correlation between when you started watching UNH and their below expectation level performance. Clearly the hockey gods are sending you a message that you are cheering for the wrong team. It is only fitting that to lift this curse you must cheer for the Blackbears.

 

[Dan]

I can’t emphasize it enough how remarkable I will find it if they fire him after he starts to find some success. Like why wait all these years for him to get UNH going in the right direction then fire him? Whole thing is incredibly absurd.

Im certain, based on past precedent, you're the only poster who would find it remarkable.

This season is a 'success' (at least to this point) based solely on its relativity to the other eight seasons Souza has spent in Durham. Its timing is only important for those who with an immediacy bias and a willingness to ignore the entire picture of coach's tenure. Finishing a handful of games above .500 doesn't just wash away eight seasons without a standing better than 10th...

If there are underlying indicators - or a strong finish - that warrant a 1-year show me extension (2-years with a buyout), I can live with that. Acting like the conversation is egregious or that he plainly 'deserves' otherwise because he's a nice guy who finally won more than he lost is either agenda driven or ignorant of UNH's recent reality.

The relevant observation in your post is question of 'why wait' question. And it's a good one, because his overall performance, more than anything, indicates just how fortunate he is to still be in this position. How lucky he is that admin has waited so long, allowing him even the possibility of one-more year...

I don't care if its Souza or anyone else - I want this program to return to some expectation of consistent and actual success. To me, track record indicates where that outcome is most likely to be found...

And I don't believe the recruiting cupboards are stocked with talent, past MacPherson, MacPherson & Sadowski. It remains easy for me to see how this could align as a mirage - even if next year ends up a step forward on a one-year deal. Past this group of players, what comes next is still ENTIRELY up in the air - and assuming this latest roster is a turnaround (because we'd all prefer it was), rather than an aberration, when the track record is clear is a dangerous game for the program...

Win out, 1-year or 2-year with a buyout I can accept. Anything more is unwarranted and an ugly sign. And Souza goes into any new contract with MUCH still to prove. I would also support a change - if deemed necessary, despite any potential risk (or the guts it might take to make) and would be thrilled for a new era of UNH Hockey, along with the true hope and belief it would bring. Similar to how EVERY other Maine fan seems to feel these days, for example...

 

[TorturedWildcat]

Had to take a wildcat detox after last weekend. We should get 6 points versus Lowell. The path for the NCAA tournament probably requires us to make it to the semi finals at least which would mean winning a game at Maine, Umass or Providence depending on the final seeding. It is encouraging that our recruiting class is promising and who knows who we can bring in with the transfer portal. It's been a promising season but plenty to build on but I think they need to move on from Souza and bring in an outside voice who's had experience winning at a high level. Someone like Dane Jackson Associate Head Coach for NoDAK. Someone in that group who's been an associate ready to take a head coaching job who knows what it takes to win. Excited that there is a spark with UNH hockey, but with every spark, unless if you don't feed the sparks kindling then there is no fire.

 

[HockeyRef]

Seems like a high correlation between when you started watching UNH and their below expectation level performance. Clearly the hockey gods are sending you a message that you are cheering for the wrong team. It is only fitting that to lift this curse you must cheer for the Blackbears.

Haha my BC bro in law said I need to become a BC fan...nope but if you guys make it to the FF you can count on my support!

Thanks for not saying I've been a curse to the 'Cats...I get that alot ha!

 

[acs64]

Its an interesting banter back and forth whether a sitting, somewhat mediocre, coach should be shown the door or not. Maine fans certainly have gone through that with prior two coaches. But as an AD, holy chit it has to be a difficult decision to make. Makes me wonder how much of that decision is based on fan sentiment, if any, and, do you suppose, the AD might actually come onto this site once in a while to gauge the hard core fan sentiment ?....or does the average AD not give a rats arse what the bread and butter fans care? So lets say the AD does come here, does care what the fan base thinks or feels about the coach.....what is he/she coming away with from this board as the overriding sentiment? Has to be oust him this season, no ?

 

[walrus]

Its an interesting banter back and forth whether a sitting, somewhat mediocre, coach should be shown the door or not. Maine fans certainly have gone through that with prior two coaches. But as an AD, holy chit it has to be a difficult decision to make. Makes me wonder how much of that decision is based on fan sentiment, if any, and, do you suppose, the AD might actually come onto this site once in a while to gauge the hard core fan sentiment ?....or does the average AD not give a rats arse what the bread and butter fans care? So lets say the AD does come here, does care what the fan base thinks or feels about the coach.....what is he/she coming away with from this board as the overriding sentiment? Has to be oust him this season, no ?

The hard core fans are going to be there no matter what. The AD cares about the big donors and no one else

 

[Snively65]

I certainly will! The ‘Cats are very close to the center for me. Core memories from my upbringing that provide me with an unadulterated passion for the program and college hockey. Hard to find the same soul in most professional sports anymore.

Love reading what everyone has to say on here - always a great temperature read. Not many UNH Hockey fans in Wyoming…

Ha! I did not notice Jackson, Wyoming, until now. How is the snowpack on the big hill this season? One my regrets is not dropping Corbett’s Couloir when the snowpack was deep in spring 1977.

 

[TwoStep93]

Ha! I did not notice Jackson, Wyoming, until now. How is the snowpack on the big hill this season? One my regrets is not dropping Corbett’s Couloir when the snowpack was deep in spring 1977.

The snowpack has finally reached some semblance of normalcy after a very dry start to the season. Despite the unseasonably warm temps (by our standard), the skiing has been quite nice!

Corbetts will be here waiting for you.

 

[Chuck Murray]

How good he did this year. Will he get hockey east coach of the year?

Hey, you may say that in jest, but two years ago his mentor Luce finally produced a winning record AND the long-awaited trip from Storrs to Boston, and the folks at UConn backed up the proverbial Brinks truck and made him the highest paid coach in HEA - presumably to "save" him from going back to BC. And all the while, BC never gave him a sniff, despite his own Luce-friendly media barrage. How's that worked out for UConn so far???

There are lessons to be learned from all this, and one of them apparently is, never underestimate the value of a good "I won last year yippee" narrative to the right crowd. Difference here being, when UConn effs up, no one cares, it's so far down on the school's radar, so mistakes get overlooked. Here at UNH, when this is arguably your only revenue positive program (aside from maybe Men's Soccer), you will own this decision forever - for good OR for bad. I'm just hoping Rich sticks with the bloodless-but-correct decision she made in Hoops last Spring, 'cuz in direct comparison to MS7, Coach Herrion might as well have been Red Auerbach.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I agree with player development / recruits being of the utmost importance and I believe that the core we have now is capable of really getting the ship off of the ground / knocking down the door for near-future talent. They're (mostly) young, quite talented and if they stick around TOGETHER for 1-3 more seasons - the sky is the limit, IMO. Unsure if giving Souza the kibosh and bringing someone new in would help or hurt that possibility.. I'm curious as to how the locker room feels?

With all due respect to the guys on the team, they're about the last people I'd want involved in making this decision. The last time a UNH team was asked to weigh in on something of importance, they made the team manager the Captain 'cuz he had an inspiring comeback story, and the next thing that happened was because of the "Senior First/Checking Line", Warren Foegele bought a one way bus pass to Kingston. Hard pass.

Let the kids play, and let the AD decide who's in charge, for how long, and for how much. Unless she gets it wrong ... ;-)

 

[Sparkee]

Hey, you may say that in jest, but two years ago his mentor Luce finally produced a winning record AND the long-awaited trip from Storrs to Boston, and the folks at UConn backed up the proverbial Brinks truck and made him the highest paid coach in HEA - presumably to "save" him from going back to BC. And all the while, BC never gave him a sniff, despite his own Luce-friendly media barrage. How's that worked out for UConn so far???

There are lessons to be learned from all this, and one of them apparently is, never underestimate the value of a good "I won last year yippee" narrative to the right crowd. Difference here being, when UConn effs up, no one cares, it's so far down on the school's radar, so mistakes get overlooked. Here at UNH, when this is arguably your only revenue positive program (aside from maybe Men's Soccer), you will own this decision forever - for good OR for bad. I'm just hoping Rich sticks with the bloodless-but-correct decision she made in Hoops last Spring, 'cuz in direct comparison to MS7, Coach Herrion might as well have been Red Auerbach.

Have you, or any UNH fans, made a short list of desired hires if it isn’t MS7? I assume Mike Ayer’s would be on that list.

 

[Chuck Murray]

This season is a 'success' (at least to this point) based solely on its relativity to the other eight seasons Souza has spent in Durham. Its timing is only important for those who with an immediacy bias and a willingness to ignore the entire picture of coach's tenure. Finishing a handful of games above .500 doesn't just wash away eight seasons without a standing better than 10th...

If there are underlying indicators - or a strong finish - that warrant a 1-year show me extension (2-years with a buyout), I can live with that. Acting like the conversation is egregious or that he plainly 'deserves' otherwise because he's a nice guy who finally won more than he lost is either agenda driven or ignorant of UNH's recent reality.

The relevant observation in your post is question of 'why wait' question. And it's a good one, because his overall performance, more than anything, indicates just how fortunate he is to still be in this position. How lucky he is that admin has waited so long, allowing him even the possibility of one-more year...

I don't care if its Souza or anyone else - I want this program to return to some expectation of consistent and actual success. To me, track record indicates where that outcome is most likely to be found...

And I don't believe the recruiting cupboards are stocked with talent, past MacPherson, MacPherson & Sadowski. It remains easy for me to see how this could align as a mirage - even if next year ends up a step forward on a one-year deal. Past this group of players, what comes next is still ENTIRELY up in the air - and assuming this latest roster is a turnaround (because we'd all prefer it was), rather than an aberration, when the track record is clear is a dangerous game for the program...

Win out, 1-year or 2-year with a buyout I can accept. Anything more is unwarranted and an ugly sign. And Souza goes into any new contract with MUCH still to prove. I would also support a change - if deemed necessary, despite any potential risk (or the guts it might take to make) and would be thrilled for a new era of UNH Hockey, along with the true hope and belief it would bring. Similar to how EVERY other Maine fan seems to feel these days, for example...

Everything Dan said.

Also, let's not forget ... the current HEA landscape is devoid of long-time legends like Jack Parker, Jerry York, and Shawn Walsh (RIP). So it's not like any of these programs are entrenched at the top coaching-wise like they used to be. I mean, only Bazin, Leaman and Luce have been in situ with their programs longer than MS7, right? That's why UMaine's hire of Ben Barr was so bold, and will in the long run pay them huge benefits, especially if he stays put. Who is the "next Ben Barr"?? That is the guy who UNH needs to hire, pronto.

P.S. - anyone else notice that a day or two after I lamented the absence of GUHN'er, another "long-time old-time" poster from Yellowstone appears in our midst? Hmmm ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Everything Dan said.

Also, let's not forget ... the current HEA landscape is devoid of long-time legends like Jack Parker, Jerry York, and Shawn Walsh (RIP). So it's not like any of these programs are entrenched at the top coaching-wise like they used to be. I mean, only Bazin, Leaman and Luce have been in situ with their programs longer than MS7, right? That's why UMaine's hire of Ben Barr was so bold, and will in the long run pay them huge benefits, especially if he stays put. Who is the "next Ben Barr"?? That is the guy who UNH needs to hire, pronto.

P.S. - anyone else notice that a day or two after I lamented the absence of GUHN'er, another "long-time old-time" poster from Yellowstone appears in our midst? Hmmm ...

Chuck why do you see the Barr hire so bold? Maine needed a coach...and he was available/interested. I guess they were lucky to get him considering his resume...? No idea..but they snagged a darn good coach.

When I've talked to other fans that want to see a change they worry about who UNH could get so keeping things the same seems like a "safe bet'. Kind of like the 'devil you know'.

It's already been pointed out that Mike Ayers is not a possibility (or is he...) as he might have been in the loop the last time. But lest we forget Umile picked his man and it was not him.

Anyway..wont be long before we have an answer one way or the other and for right now am interested to see how our 'Cats wrap up the regular season...and beyond.

 

[Sparkee]

Chuck why do you see the Barr hire so bold? Maine needed a coach...and he was available/interested. I guess they were lucky to get him considering his resume...? No idea..but they snagged a darn good coach.

When I've talked to other fans that want to see a change they worry about who UNH could get so keeping things the same seems like a "safe bet'. Kind of like the 'devil you know'.

It's already been pointed out that Mike Ayers is not a possibility (or is he...) as he might have been in the loop the last time. But lest we forget Umile picked his man and it was not him.

Anyway..wont be long before we have an answer one way or the other and for right now am interested to see how our 'Cats wrap up the regular season...and beyond.

Maine could have kept Guite, who was the lead recruiter, for continuity’s sake. Guite had been an Assistant Coach for a long while. He is a former star player that like Souza scored a big goal in the 99 national championship. Maine fans like Guite a lot. However, the AD chose Barr who didn’t have the connections to Maine. However, he had a history of success wherever he had gone. So it was bold hiring out of network and likely more disruptive short term in favor of long term potential. It was fairly disruptive as some recruits canceled, some players left, etc… But Maine looks good for doing it. Most games sold out this year. Locked down Barr until 2028. Alfond family just invested heavy into hockey arena upgrades and expansions. Wonder if Maine didn’t hire Barr and Maine hockey wasn’t on a promising track would the Alfond’s have donated as much? Not as likely. Nobody puts money down on a horse with a limp.

 

[Drew S.]

Maine could have kept Guite, who was the lead recruiter, for continuity’s sake. Guite had been an Assistant Coach for a long while. He is a former star player that like Souza scored a big goal in the 99 national championship. Maine fans like Guite a lot. However, the AD chose Barr who didn’t have the connections to Maine. However, he had a history of success wherever he had gone. So it was bold hiring out of network and likely more disruptive short term in favor of long term potential. It was fairly disruptive as some recruits canceled, some players left, etc… But Maine looks good for doing it. Most games sold out this year. Locked down Barr until 2028. Alfond family just invested heavy into hockey arena upgrades and expansions. Wonder if Maine didn’t hire Barr and Maine hockey wasn’t on a promising track would the Alfond’s have donated as much? Not as likely. Nobody puts money down on a horse with a limp.

I think you left out the most important part that the old AD was longtime friends with Barr and seemed to have a strained relationship with Guite. I don’t know the reasons three other schools passed on Barr when he was a finalist but certainly strange when you consider none of the coaches hired instead of him were superstars.

 

[Drew S.]

Its an interesting banter back and forth whether a sitting, somewhat mediocre, coach should be shown the door or not. Maine fans certainly have gone through that with prior two coaches. But as an AD, holy chit it has to be a difficult decision to make. Makes me wonder how much of that decision is based on fan sentiment, if any, and, do you suppose, the AD might actually come onto this site once in a while to gauge the hard core fan sentiment ?....or does the average AD not give a rats arse what the bread and butter fans care? So lets say the AD does come here, does care what the fan base thinks or feels about the coach.....what is he/she coming away with from this board as the overriding sentiment? Has to be oust him this season, no ?

Would you take advice from the same people who scream SHOOT THE PUCK at the top of their lungs? The donors certainly matter but not sure how much the average fans do.

For me personally I would only care about current performance and anticipated future performance. The past is the past and there is nothing you can do to change it.

 

[acs64]

And dont forget that Jim Montgomery and Barr were together for a short stint at RPI and Jim was on the selection committee. Between Barrs' previous success, Montgomery's influence and the AD's connections with Barr it was an easy done deal. I mean chit the guy gets a lot of positive press, lets see what he can do in the post season