UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

[lord k]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

The people that trash on Hak don't even know what they are talking about. UND has a top flight coaching staff. Who would UND get to replace him? Most teams are dying to get a coach as good as Hakstol.

The fact of the matter is only 1 team can win it all each year. UND has only 7 titles in the history of the program and we have the 2nd most of any school. It is dam hard to win the national championship.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I think it's ridiculous to trash Hakstol and say he's a bad coach because he hasn't gotten over the hump. He's a very good coach, maybe he's not a great coach, I don't know. Players seem to like him and the Sioux consistantly have a chance year in and year out. I'd rather have that than years without a realistic possibility to do anything significant. In the end, these are still college kids playing a game and anything can happen.

I just like to see someone bust the chops of the UND fans about Hakstol's record of NCAA championships because for about 12 years that was all we heard from them about Woog and the Gophers.

Also, because he ALWAYS looks constipated. I was in GF on work one evening and caught his coaches show on the local channel. He was recounting his teams sweep from the previous weekend and he never cracked a hint of a smile. Looked just as constipated as he did on the bench late in the third last night. Maybe he needs that championship before he'll smile or crack a joke.

 

[siouxinminny]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I guess people need to analyze things in order to justify the outcome. I don't think Hakstol got outcoached. I don't think Michigan or UND had a game plan that was much different than any other game plan they had all year. Michigan did play a great game and looked like they had more energy and more breaks. Their goalie was outstanding but so was Dell. These two teams could play again tonight with the same game plans and the score could be quite different. If Michigan doesn't score their first goal and Matt Frattin scores on the gift give-away, then we would be having a conversation quite different than the one now. Congratulations to Michigan. Good luck Duluth.

 

[J.D.]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

Agreed. And it is nice to read some actual legitimate analysis and see reasonable people on the board rather than the bickering and BS that the boards have become.

I really thought UND would win this game. Michigan did enough right, and that's how it goes.

I think it's ridiculous to trash Hakstol and say he's a bad coach because he hasn't gotten over the hump. He's a very good coach, maybe he's not a great coach, I don't know. Players seem to like him and the Sioux consistantly have a chance year in and year out. I'd rather have that than years without a realistic possibility to do anything significant. In the end, these are still college kids playing a game and anything can happen.

The people that trash on Hak don't even know what they are talking about. UND has a top flight coaching staff. Who would UND get to replace him? Most teams are dying to get a coach as good as Hakstol.

The fact of the matter is only 1 team can win it all each year. UND has only 7 titles in the history of the program and we have the 2nd most of any school. It is dam hard to win the national championship.

First of all, yes, it is extremely hard to win this thing. Second, I don't think anyone is saying Hakstol is a bad coach. So far, he's proven that he's not a great coach--yet. In the end, it's all about results...especially at a place like North Dakota. Until he wins a title, he will just be a good/very good coach. Is that fair? That's up for debate, but that's how it works.

 

[bik4u62]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

Getting the first goal was everything for MI. Otherwise, toss Red's game-winning defensive plan in the trash. I think the Sioux were rattled by that goal more than in any previous game.

All year, UND showed the talent to deal with lane blocking, board jamming and other defensive schemes. And all year, they've been patient and disciplined when down a goal or two.

Not last night. Hunwick said the Frattin to Genoway cross pass was the only tricky save he felt he made. Otherwise, the shots came straight on - whether in traffic or open lanes.

Credit the MI defense for a lot of that. But the Sioux didn't show the same composure they've shown before. Maybe this whole thing about not celebrating league crowns isn't the best 'pressure' strategy (?).

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

Anyway, clearly UND vastly outplayed Michigan last night but in the end the Wolverines did what they had to do. Just another example of how hard this thing is to win, no matter how good you are.

Again, I really don't know if this is true. Michigan followed their game plan to a T. Yes it was incredibly risky and I'm stunned they pulled it off, but they played their game plan. So how can you say they were out played when they weren't really trying to score for over half the game. One lone MI player would carry in the puck and maybe get off a shot while 4 hung back to trap in the neutral zone. Nothing got through (for the most part) and that's exactly what they wanted. 30 minutes of a complete stall and hanging on for dear life got them to the title game.

Getting the first goal was everything for MI. Otherwise, toss Red's game-winning defensive plan in the trash. I think the Sioux were rattled by that goal more than in any previous game.

All year, UND showed the talent to deal with lane blocking, board jamming and other defensive schemes. And all year, they've been patient and disciplined when down a goal or two.

Not last night. Hunwick said the Frattin to Genoway cross pass was the only tricky save he felt he made. Otherwise, the shots came straight on - whether in traffic or open lanes.

Credit the MI defense for a lot of that. But the Sioux didn't show the same composure they've shown before. Maybe this whole thing about not celebrating league crowns isn't the best 'pressure' strategy (?).

Interesting point. You are right about getting the first goal. I have no idea what MI would have done for the entire 3rd period without a lead. And I agree with the celebrating thing, pretty much because we've seen it before with the exact same result in 2005.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

My view from inside Xcel looked a lot like Tiggsy's.

Michigan looked terrific in the first period, when the game was still 0-0.

 

[J.D.]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

Again, I really don't know if this is true. Michigan followed their game plan to a T. Yes it was incredibly risky and I'm stunned they pulled it off, but they played their game plan. So how can you say they were out played when they weren't really trying to score for over half the game. One lone MI player would carry in the puck and maybe get off a shot while 4 hung back to trap in the neutral zone. Nothing got through (for the most part) and that's exactly what they wanted. 30 minutes of a complete stall and hanging on for dear life got them to the title game.

I don't know. Call me crazy, but from about the 10 minute mark of the 2nd I was thinking...only a matter of time before UND ties this game. When I get a vibe like that, it's hard for me to say UND didn't outplay Michigan. Now, full credit to Michigan for keeping UND off the board--especially the penalty killing. That being said, IMO North Dakota was buzzing in the UM end for pretty much the entire 3rd period. That's not part of any coaching strategy. You still wanna be able to get the puck out and make plays. And if you can't do that, you're hoping to cash in on a counter attack. I saw very little of that from Michigan last night.

 

[HoosierBBall_GopherHockey]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

A little confused by this. What did UND earn?

I was having a weak moment last night. They earned nothing.

 

[KnowItAll]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

The people that trash on Hak don't even know what they are talking about. UND has a top flight coaching staff. Who would UND get to replace him? Most teams are dying to get a coach as good as Hakstol.

The fact of the matter is only 1 team can win it all each year. UND has only 7 titles in the history of the program and we have the 2nd most of any school. It is dam hard to win the national championship.

using that logic, I am led to believe that Whitehead is doing just fine, because Maine has 2 championships
and
Clarkson is a force to be reckoned with because York won while he was there.

Spanish Armada
Mongol hordes, and
Darth Vader's Empire...

not sure how any of that helps Hakstol in his Umiliations in the NCAA frozen fours, year after year. (And I know... umiliations are almost always in regionals, but I can be charitable, can't I?)

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I don't know. Call me crazy, but from about the 10 minute mark of the 2nd I was thinking...only a matter of time before UND ties this game. When I get a vibe like that, it's hard for me to say UND didn't outplay Michigan. Now, full credit to Michigan for keeping UND off the board--especially the penalty killing. That being said, IMO North Dakota was buzzing in the UM end for pretty much the entire 3rd period. That's not part of any coaching strategy. You still wanna be able to get the puck out and make plays. And if you can't do that, you're hoping to cash in on a counter attack. I saw very little of that from Michigan last night.

I admit I was waiting for the same thing. Had they tied the game I expected the floodgates to open and several more NoDak goals to follow. But it amazingly never happened. You are correct that you should want to make plays, but I just didn't see that from MI. They seemed completely content just to sit back and wait for the Sioux to come to them. So to me, it sure seemed like it was part of the strategy.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I admit I was waiting for the same thing. Had they tied the game I expected the floodgates to open and several more NoDak goals to follow. But it amazingly never happened. You are correct that you should want to make plays, but I just didn't see that from MI. They seemed completely content just to sit back and wait for the Sioux to come to them. So to me, it sure seemed like it was part of the strategy.

To me, it looked like they couldn't do anything but sit back.

Breakout attempts were repeatedly stymied and Michigan had a hard time possessing through the neutral zone. When coaching to hold off another team, you still want to get the puck out of your zone and once you do, you want to get it in deep and at least forecheck with one player. Michigan couldn't do any of that.

No way was that their strategy. They won the game, but not by design.

 

[J.D.]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

To me, it looked like they couldn't do anything but sit back.

Breakout attempts were repeatedly stymied and Michigan had a hard time possessing through the neutral zone. When coaching to hold off another team, you still want to get the puck out of your zone and once you do, you want to get it in deep and at least forecheck with one player. Michigan couldn't do any of that.

No way was that their strategy. They won the game, but not by design.

Agreed.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

To me, it looked like they couldn't do anything but sit back.

Breakout attempts were repeatedly stymied and Michigan had a hard time possessing through the neutral zone. When coaching to hold off another team, you still want to get the puck out of your zone and once you do, you want to get it in deep and at least forecheck with one player. Michigan couldn't do any of that.

No way was that their strategy. They won the game, but not by design.

Sorry but I just didn't see it that way. They had no interest in forechecking, just waiting at the blue line. And as far as the offensive zone, one guy would carry the puck in and hold on to it as long as he could or get a shot off if he could and hustle immediately back once losing the puck. That sure looked like a design to me. Guess the real test will be to see what happens Saturday. I didn't watch much of the other MI tourney games so I can't speak to what they did in comparison. But whatever it was, it amazingly did work for them and we can't disagree on that point.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

Sorry but I just didn't see it that way. They had no interest in forechecking, just waiting at the blue line. And as far as the offensive zone, one guy would carry the puck in and hold on to it as long as he could or get a shot off if he could and hustle immediately back once losing the puck. That sure looked like a design to me. Guess the real test will be to see what happens Saturday. I didn't watch much of the other MI tourney games so I can't speak to what they did in comparison. But whatever it was, it amazingly did work for them and we can't disagree on that point.

No, I don't mean to detract, but we've all been in games like that and sometimes you just find a way to win and should be commended for it, no doubt.

I wasn't at the game, so couldn't see the whole ice, but my impression was that they couldn't forecheck because by the time they did get the puck in deep, they had been on the ice so long trying to get out of their own zone that they needed a line change. Now obviously that didn't happen EVERY time, but it seems like Michigan had to expend a lot of energy just to get the puck past center ice. In addition there were numerous times that I remember tired defenders just chucking the puck from their corners and having the Sioux players outwork or out position the forwards to regain possession.

I guess it doesn't matter though. I bet you and I could argue over what color grass is.

Either way I'm glad the Sioux are not going to add to their titles and I hope Michigan doesn't either. Go UMD!

 

[bik4u62]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

That sure looked like a design to me. Guess the real test will be to see what happens Saturday.

I'm with Gadolphin - the MI strategy was more by default than by design. After the first goal, and after repeated UND efforts failed, MI was no longer playing to win - they were playing not to lose. I doubt that was Red's plan coming in.

Saturday should be the perfect test. UMD was outplayed by ND for long stretches. But the Dogs used superior passing to create better scoring chances. MI will need that first goal again.

 

[4four4]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I admit I was waiting for the same thing. Had they tied the game I expected the floodgates to open and several more NoDak goals to follow. But it amazingly never happened. You are correct that you should want to make plays, but I just didn't see that from MI. They seemed completely content just to sit back and wait for the Sioux to come to them. So to me, it sure seemed like it was part of the strategy.

Oh, the dreaded trap. Fun and games, games and fun.

 

[lord k]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I'm with Gadolphin - the MI strategy was more by default than by design. After the first goal, and after repeated UND efforts failed, MI was no longer playing to win - they were playing not to lose. I doubt that was Red's plan coming in.

Saturday should be the perfect test. UMD was outplayed by ND for long stretches. But the Dogs used superior passing to create better scoring chances. MI will need that first goal again.

The dogs can really move the puck around on their power play and they almost always seem to be able to get it to the wide guy for the wide open net one-timer. That may be what is needed to get one by the Michigan goalie.

 

[4four4]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

I vote this for being the best analysis of the game in this thread. Apart from Hunnwick's stellar play, this was the story. UND got possession, but rarely had good options with it. Superb position play by Mich along with tremendous hustle defensively by all Michigan players. Congrats to Michigan.

The goaltending was the story tonight. Never out of position, cut off angles, and got some lucky bounces. Well said, this is the best analysis of a game thread in some time.

It's the WCHA. You know, the Whiny, Cry-baby, Hockey Assosciation.

It is going to be great beating you when you leave the Cup Cake Conference.

Yes, that's a pretty good summary of why so many college hockey fans are happy tonight. I rooted for Michigan tonight. Michigan! (Shudder). Good job wolverines. But now that the skating d bags are gone, its back to rooting for the wcha.

Exactly, the Bulldogs will never have home ice advantage in the X again.

 

[Z28Wilson]

Re: UND Fighting Sioux vs. UM Wolverines

They said on the broadcast after the first period that Red wasn't happy with their offensive attack. So I think it's incorrect to say that Michigan's gameplan coming in was to sit in a defensive shell for 60 minutes.

If I had to guess, Michigan made the adjustment sometime in the second period to play a trapping style because they were having so much trouble attacking consistantly. So while it wasn't the gameplan coming in, it became the gameplan out of necessity. Red realized they just weren't able to sustain anything so they tried to win the game the only way they could. And it worked.